Celine Menswear S/S 2025 Norfolk

[Creative]

Like, seriously, why so much issue with age? If his beauty ideal is young guys, what’s wrong? They can get married, work, create a company, have kids… but can’t appear in Hedi’s presentations? Gimme a rest.

When a designer like older people I see no issue either… like Dries or Demna sometimes.

I don’t know why people put so much focus on age.

 

[HigthaVandah]

I've already written several dissertations in this thread about why I think the video is fine.

But the broader conversation (not this forum particularly) about model size and age often forgets that there are more options than the two extremes. Models can be less scrawny than Hedi models without being overweight at all. Models can be more muscular than Hedi models without being competitive power lifters. Models can be older than 19 without being middle aged.

 

[HigthaVandah]

This recent photo of Hedi I came across on another forum seems relevant. Looks to be from the filming of Symphony Fantastique, so early this year. He looks great.

 

[Creative]

I've already written several dissertations in this thread about why I think the video is fine.

But the broader conversation (not this forum particularly) about model size and age often forgets that there are more options than the two extremes. Models can be less scrawny than Hedi models without being overweight at all. Models can be more muscular than Hedi models without being competitive power lifters. Models can be older than 19 without being middle aged.

But why not going for the “extreme”? Usually the in between is the normal, so not very fashion-worthy.

And, actually, many of his models are 25ish and look 18. So age it’s not the matter. The problem is the look. And I think it’s a problem for some fashion followers because they feel he is proposing a look or an ideal of beauty that they can’t achieve. People love to be represented and I despise that. People’s insecurities should not be issued in a fashion presentation but somewhere else.

 

[tricotineacetat]

It‘s easy in our today's time to get lost in the 'image' aspect over the actual product and the fact that Celine chooses this specific presentation format doesn’t do much to deny the fact that in truth, Hedi Slimane has always been a very product-oriented designer whose proposal at the very core is largely time and ageless.

There‘s suiting and outerwear, denim and footwear (mostly boots) in mostly classical colors that customers of and age can wear. It‘s for the most part an urban uniform for the kind of people that might be before disciples of Helmut Lang and in many ways, Hedi’s clothes are the logical continuation of Helmut Lang, obviously with his very own flavor but in essence a belief in that particular wardrobe and way of dressing.

I can only underline a 1000th time that the presentation, the styling and more fashion forward pieces make you believe this is a very young and fashion-victim-y way of dressing but what’s great about Hedi had always been that there’s something for everyone there, from a very edgy proposal to more classical clothes. What they all have inherent is that the cutting and construction is superb, I have barely seen a designer whose pattern grading was as accurate as with Hedi - I had men in size 52 or 54 wearing his suits and they looked great, the cut just felt more modern than Helmut’s when Dior Homme landed on the scene!

 

[HigthaVandah]

But why not going for the “extreme”? Usually the in between is the normal, so not very fashion-worthy.

Extreme is fine too. I'm not arguing against Hedi's aesthetic. If anything I dislike how extreme and tokenizing the anti-skinny push has been in some women's brands. Normies are plenty fashion worthy imo though, fit/slim normies are generally the ones organically developing the clothing subcultures designers reference.

People’s insecurities should not be issued in a fashion presentation but somewhere else.

The Slimane oeuvre as a whole feels to me heavily inspired by the artist's insecurities. Albeit mostly more abstract ones than waist size. Plenty of art touches on the tension between strength and vulnerability. Imo that's a big part of what makes Hedi's looks elicit such strong emotions. And the "Do *I* have what it takes to pull that off? What would I need to do to get there?" thoughts are a scaled down, tangible version of that tension.

 

[Creative]

Extreme is fine too. I'm not arguing against Hedi's aesthetic. If anything I dislike how extreme and tokenizing the anti-skinny push has been in some women's brands. Normies are plenty fashion worthy imo though, fit/slim normies are generally the ones organically developing the clothing subcultures designers reference.


The Slimane oeuvre as a whole feels to me heavily inspired by the artist's insecurities. Albeit mostly more abstract ones than waist size. Plenty of art touches on the tension between strength and vulnerability. Imo that's a big part of what makes Hedi's looks elicit such strong emotions. And the "Do *I* have what it takes to pull that off? What would I need to do to get there?" thoughts are a scaled down, tangible version of that tension.

But it’s normal that when you create you reflect your world. Another thing is not being able to appreciate something or just be a hater simply because you don’t look like that something…

 

[MulletProof]

Thank god TFS has you haha.

I mean, I have a body like… idk, David Laid in his younger years, and Hedi clothes don’t look good at all on me. And what? I feel people when they don’t feel represented in certain aesthetics (cause they are old or have extra weight) they just hate as a defensive mode…

Also, to be muscular is not healthy either… people have this kind of misconceptions.

And since when beard has been considered a beauty thing? Successful people and beauty icons usually don’t have beards.

I had to look him up lol. You’re so crazy for this ‘I guess I look like Theo James in that naked scene in The White Lotus so not everything will look good on me 🙁’ 😆

I don’t know why it’s either ‘hmm 16 years olds, yummy’ or ‘what so you want me to see an over-the-hill hairy man in his forties?!’.. there’s a lot of middle ground out there, you don’t have to enter pedo territory just because you’re self-projecting and are horrified by aging. I do think it’s wild that you can be pushing 60 like Hedi and are fascinated by intellectuals and accomplished musicians but when it comes to what YOU actually create, you feel somehow undeserving and would rather get on a school bus and drool over the kids’ looks and conversations around you. How boring, not to mention.. odd, and it just makes me think that at the end of the day it’s not the brain but the lower half of your body taking the wheel in your creative expression.

But anyway, that being said!, my only argument is: if you’re going to chant about Hedi’s aesthetic like it’s your religion, be skinny, lower the protein intake, go on ozempic, do whatever you need to do cause lord knows I see a lot of hips and massive thighs in Hedi’s clothes and that literally corrupts what many are trying so hard to keep pristine, untouchable and above debates.

 

[Creative]

But anyway, that being said!, my only argument is: if you’re going to chant about Hedi’s aesthetic like it’s your religion, be skinny, lower the protein intake, go on ozempic, do whatever you need to do cause lord knows I see a lot of hips and massive thighs in Hedi’s clothes and that literally corrupts what many are trying so hard to keep pristine, untouchable and above debates.

that’s the opposite of what I think. I appreciate his world even if I don’t belong there… for him my body would be for gymshark or chippendales lmao. But I don’t need to get anybody’s approval nor I need to belong anywhere to like certain aesthetics.

I don’t think his fashion suits me, but I believe talking about fashion having oneself in mind is so wrong. Fashion should be the same as talking about the “truth”, shouldn’t be about projecting oneself, because that’s not fashion, that’s clothing, and I am not interesting in how I, or how most of the people, dress.

And the pedo thing 😷 You are talking like he is using 14 year old kids in a sexual way. Those are people over 18, who can vote and marry and have a business. I will never understand why people have this idea about an 18/20 year old being silly or not ready for life. I was smarter at 17 than now. And most of the people I know and meet are as absurd as 15 year old kids. In fact, most of the people doesnt manage to develop their brains after that age

 

[HigthaVandah]

There's also the advertising aspect. Hedi's an interesting enough director that we're able to have these in depth conversations about the video and collection as art. Which they are. But at the same time, we're having a weeks-long conversation about a commercial.

 

[MulletProof]

I don’t think his fashion suits me, but I believe talking about fashion having oneself in mind is so wrong. Fashion should be the same as talking about the “truth”, shouldn’t be about projecting oneself, because that’s not fashion, that’s clothing, and I am not interesting in how I, or how most of the people, dress.

We’re not going to see eye to eye on this one and that’s okay but fashion is informed by many social factors and it’s not something implicit, it’s pretty straightforward and for you to accept the terms, be active and consume it. Clothing isn’t, fashion (the industry that no one truly needs) is. If you aid the marketing vocally and double down on its message, then live up to it as well. Don’t just tell people (as it happens often in Hedi threads) to f off with any critique because they don’t ‘get it’ while, if rocking arm flap.. do you?.

This is the oldest dynamic in womenswear and for female consumers so nothing too cruel about applying it for everyone.

Regarding age, I mean, yeah.. 18 year olds are legally ready for life, I certainly got my first job at 14 and may or may not have been able to survive. That’s not the point. It’s not the 16 years olds who get the judgement but a grown as* man insisting to lurk around them and arguing ‘hm actually this teenage boy is very mature’ yeah for his peers, not for you and the advantage and power that you have over them. In other words, if Hedi was a prodigious 20-25 year old designer who only featured super young men in his ads, it wouldn’t be such an issue, it’s the fact that the older he is, the younger the models and themes get.

 

[Creative]

I think the power thing is very subjective… in fact, I feel someone beautiful is more powerful than someone rich somehow.

There are old guys that lose their heads over teenagers that use them how they want… I just don’t buy the usual: he is older and richer so he has the power. No. That can be at work… in a relationship things change so much and those rich and old guys are usually so vulnerable, usually much more than a beautiful 20 year old that is starting life.

 

[MulletProof]

^ it’s not subjective because, in addition to neurological development, we live in a society where we are measured by what we accomplish, or not accomplish, as well as material things. You can ignore all these factors and opt for an extra horny way of looking at it (‘ugh you’re so beautiful, what have you done to me!’) but in reality nothing has been done to you and true vulnerability has not been traded with. The fact that, after a certain age, someone young and with an awareness on the possibilities of profit via looks, is giving you the time of day because you chose to exercise your power on them (by, in more harmless cases, promising or offering a glimpse of a lifestyle they cannot possibly amass yet at their age), that should tell you enough about where you stand.

Anyway I think your judicial system might offer a better explanation than I do lol, I’d research on that as a preventative measure.. that ‘I just like beautiful young boys!’.. I’m sure it’s well-intentioned and I believe you genuinely do… but more often than not it gets people into trouble.

 

[Creative]

^I don’t think judicial systems in general are that precise and fair though… Sometimes they are quite generic and change from one country to another, so the truth there is kind of diluted…

And you can be rich and young as well… But if you are old the chances of being beautiful are not that many. I think beauty shapes people’s lives as much as status and money.

 

[tourbillions]

i am quite shocked at the lengths some would protect the "beautiful" image of pedophilia... its a real problem in many regions and countries and many victims of it is not because they wanted power or money over the older people. they are victims, living with real life trauma. its not a glamorous look at all and maybe the people where you are, are not always the target for trading children to pedophiles but it is to other places.

Whether intentional or not if some people here see it in his imagery, it means more people outside TFS will see it the same way. Its really not a beautiful look, especially if he can put his clothes on adult-looking men with the same frame and they will still look as good.

 

[tigerrouge]

for me what sets hedi's men and women apart from the past fashion model trends is that in the past designers would take in slender women but they never looked pre-pubescent. They always looked/styled like bombshells and adult passing, it might be bad for the model themselves but the overall message from the brand was not "pre-pubescent".

As much as I would love to continually exist in the early 90s, where this would absolutely hold true, the overall timeline of modelling from Twiggy to Kate Moss to Gemma Ward would suggest that elements of neoteny and prepubescence is something that women's fashion is fond of revisiting and promoting on a regular basis, down through the decades.

 

[PDFSD]

i am quite shocked at the lengths some would protect the "beautiful" image of pedophilia... its a real problem in many regions and countries and many victims of it is not because they wanted power or money over the older people. they are victims, living with real life trauma. its not a glamorous look at all and maybe the people where you are, are not always the target for trading children to pedophiles but it is to other places.

Whether intentional or not if some people here see it in his imagery, it means more people outside TFS will see it the same way. Its really not a beautiful look, especially if he can put his clothes on adult-looking men with the same frame and they will still look as good.

Where is the pedophilia in this video where is the image of sex or an adults doing things that are morally corrupt, is it because the maker is male and gay and older ?

There is no news or rumors of misconduct around Hedi so far so why push a agenda that so far is not his reality, Miu Miu plays with idea of a young girl for years should Miuccia stop also because she cant express her inner girly obsessions any more ? working even with Richard kern for miu miu where is the outcry for that ? beauce she is straight she can be a girl inside still and express this ?

Yet young and older women have worn miu miu for years not just now just with Hedi vision for 3 different houses if he dont like to put older looking folks he won't regardless of clients buying it.

I really feel the scene of the boys in woods makes people uncomfortable because its gay errotic that Hedi is a older gay guy makes it even worse to stomach.

 

[tourbillions]

i guess it was coincidence or art that when it turns dark the boys are suddenly shirtless... so what narrative was he trying to portray in those parts and why was it necessary in the film

 

[blueorchid]

I was smarter at 17 than now. And most of the people I know and meet are as absurd as 15 year old kids. In fact, most of the people doesnt manage to develop their brains after that age

I’ve spent a significant part of my career working with kids and teenagers and I can ASSURE you that no teenager is as smart as they think they are. Frontal lobe development doesn’t play! It’s not even about intelligence, but assessing risks and safety.

 

[george5]

the theories and essays here.... if we want to talk about models' ages then I hope some of you had this energy to discuss about some models walking for Philo in transparent sheer dresses or blouses when they were 16-17 y/o.