Commercial Campaigns aka Selling Out

[model_mom]

and another thing...and i know this sounds crazy but what if you don't want to be "high fashion"? What if you just want to get the commercial jobs and the chance to get home now and then? What if they keep wanting you to go to Greece or tokyo or Singapore and you just want to stay where you're at? I'll tell you the answer to that one. You are just s**t out of luck. Everyone else thinks you're nuts but then again they're not the ones that have to leave everything behind on a gamble.

 

[fashionkitten7]

another point that hasnt even really came up (model mom kinda assessed it ^^) is that models don't CHOOSE their work. You think some high fashion model is going to tell her booker that she refuses to go to the Loreal casting because she doesnt want to sell out? She would be dropped so quickly..

Oh, REEAALLLEEY ??? Can they really do that ? I always thought that if you don't want some kind of job, you may not attend a casting by your own decision... Maybe, it depends on the agency ?

Is there some kind of rules as to whether you are attending castings in a particular day or taking a day off and how many castings you are attending ? I mean, is it like with some other job - you have to be in the office in the morning or take a day off due to sickness only ?

 

[fashionkitten7]

One thing I can't understand about this business is the fact that once your agency has made up their mind that you are high fashion, they won't let you go near a commercial job. You're sitting there waiting for your ship to come in but in the mean time your wallet is running dry and you are falling in debt to your agency(just where they want you). Even after your ship doesn't come in they would rather you fade back into the woodwork than to let you turn commercial. What the hell is that all about?

I really don't know much about the industry or agencies, but, once again, could it depend on the particular agency ?? I mean they can't all be such brats... I want to hope so, at least... All the big girls seem to have done quite a share of commercial campaigns or catalogues... Or, many of them, at least... So I hope it's not THAT bad. Besides, catalogue is a money work which means agencies benefit from that as much as models do... They can't refuse money, can they ???

However, such things may happen... And what makes it even worse is that high fashion girls are the first to be dropped out in favor of money models if the agency is going through difficult time financially...

 

[model_mom]

Let's put it this way...unless you are calling the shots(you're making the agency MAJOR money) you do exactly what your agency tells you to do. You might get away with skipping a few castings but sooner or later your agency finds out ...and the phone stops ringing. Remember the rest of the world is lined up at the door in order to be a part of this wonderful industry.

 

[model_mom]

Reply to post 42... If you are known to be a commercial or catalog model most major photographers will not work with you. (There are exceptions to this,but they are few and far between.)

 

[arlekindearrabal]

^kind of harsh... but i suppose it is work, after all

 

[fashionkitten7]

and another thing...and i know this sounds crazy but what if you don't want to be "high fashion"? What if you just want to get the commercial jobs and the chance to get home now and then? What if they keep wanting you to go to Greece or tokyo or Singapore and you just want to stay where you're at? I'll tell you the answer to that one. You are just s**t out of luck. Everyone else thinks you're nuts but then again they're not the ones that have to leave everything behind on a gamble.

What I always thought is that when a new girl gets signed by the agency she and her booker sit down and talk it all over: what she wants and can do, where she wants her career to take her, what she's prepared to sacrifice for that and what she won't, whatever it means, as well as what kind of jobs she has potential for, looks and talent wise. And than they work out some kind of strategy that will be getting corrected as the time goes, but still must be set at the beginning for both the agency and the girl to know where it's all going...


Oh, well, maybe I'm just an idealist...

 

[model_mom]

When you meet with your agency and they sign you,all kinds of promises will be made. They have a rosy future planned for you and you believe every word they are saying....and if your mom is there ,she believes them too. What they tell you and what really happens changes every day. They might start off thinking you will be doing some commercial jobs in a city near where you live....and you might end up two months later in Paris to get pictures for your book in order to enter the high fashion world....and it all happens so fast,you don't even know how you got there.

 

[fashionkitten7]

^ Well, I obviously didn't mean the promises of rosy future, in fact, I would get VERY suspicious if that was taking place. I mean some kind of a plan to be designed considering both the agency's and mine interests. And, yes, I would expect them to follow that as they can. Obviously, it doesn't mean I will expect them to put me on the cover of Vogue if they had first said I had potential for high fashion, but I would expect them to say, not insist I attend a casting for lingerie if that was first talked that I don't want to do that (just for instance...) I think you can say whether the agency is reliable in terms of that by how they first act. If they make all kinds of promises of makingyou a supermodel, they probably aren't as nobody really ever knows where you'll end up in this biz, but if they're being realistic and serious, they probably deserve some trust...

 

[model_mom]

Back to the original purpose of this thread... You are not selling out if you want to do commercial work but sometimes your agency decides that's not the route thay want you to take. The agencies have allowed some of their top models to do top of the line catalog work in recent years. If you check some of the model threads out in supporting cast you will see this is so. The money is very good and you can never have too much money in the bank if you want to live the lifestyle of a top model.

 

[fashionbutterfly]

i dont see it as something bad to do a commercial ad...i think it adds the money they need to be in tip top clothes and style they are models in da end!but i just dont think its good for them to do it too much itll be boring to see a model in every ad..dont u think?

 

[fashionkitten7]

Reply to post 42... If you are known to be a commercial or catalog model most major photographers will not work with you. (There are exceptions to this,but they are few and far between.)

Well, the only models actually known to be the models to do commercial are the commercial models, right ?
I just went through this thread http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/f96/models-catalogue-30628.html and it lists some girls who's done a lot of catalogue work and those were not even all the big name clothing companies... Alyssa S., Yasmin, Nicole, Raica, Miranda Kerr, Michelle Buswell, Elyse, Maria Dvirnik, Audrey Marney, Gemma are a few names I gathered from there... Quite a bunch. I also know that Lonneke Engel did catalogue and the best known example is Karina Longin. Also, the model members in this board said that catalogue work is very popular along models in NYC as it brings some good money and doesn't require a strong book to land it, so it's good for beginners...

Could it be that it is rather a question of balance between commercial and fashion stuff and the policy of a particular agency ?

 

[fashionkitten7]

Let's put it this way...unless you are calling the shots(you're making the agency MAJOR money) you do exactly what your agency tells you to do. You might get away with skipping a few castings but sooner or later your agency finds out ...and the phone stops ringing. Remember the rest of the world is lined up at the door in order to be a part of this wonderful industry.

Ok, once again, I don't know much about it and you obviously know more than me, but from what I see it's like, there must be SO many castings taking place in New York City every single day that one girl cannot possibly attend them all. Which means that she (and her booker) have to make choices. Which means there must be the bases for those choices aka why this one and not that one... Why can't that base for choices be what she (and her booker) see herself as, in the industry ?


I realize that what you said must be true with many agencies, I just really hope it's not so with all the agencies since I heard that NYC agencies differ from one another dramatically.

 

[model_mom]

The booker tells you when and where to go and you go. You never see all your options for the day. They may turn down a good money job for you that you would love to do and you will never even know about it....unless you run into the client and he ask you why you decided not to do his job and you go "Huh???"

 

[fashionkitten7]

Oh, well... If the things you say are all true, everywhere, it is truely harsh... I just still have a tiny hope, there are exlusions to this in the form of nice agencies who actually discuss things with their models... Smaller agencies, maybe, they are known for giving personal attention...

I hope if any working model or agent comes across this thread they will add their two cents... This is not to say that I put a doubt on the fact you're well-informed about how the industry works, it is just that I definately need more of a sample for an objective picture.

 

[model_mom]

another point that hasnt even really came up (model mom kinda assessed it ^^) is that models don't CHOOSE their work. You think some high fashion model is going to tell her booker that she refuses to go to the Loreal casting because she doesnt want to sell out? She would be dropped so quickly..

Sweets is a working model and this is what she has to say about it.

 

[fashionkitten7]

Sweets is a working model and this is what she has to say about it.

I commented to that post of Sweets wondering if that could be her agency, a good number of other agencies, but not all the agencies...

They may turn down a good money job for you that you would love to do and you will never even know about it....unless you run into the client and he ask you why you decided not to do his job and you go "Huh???"

That's what making me wonder... I mean, clients are usually well-informed about how the industry works, obviously... So, if they ask the girl who they think has turned down their job why she did so, they're basing on that she herself took that decision or that she and her booker took that decision together... I mean, if bookers taking this decision on their own and without consulting with the girl was THAT common, clients would obviously know there is no reason to ask - she simply doesn't know anything about it...

 

[Sweets]

I commented to that post of Sweets wondering if that could be her agency, a good number of other agencies, but not all the agencies...



That's what making me wonder... I mean, clients are usually well-informed about how the industry works, obviously... So, if they ask the girl who they think has turned down their job why she did so, they're basing on that she herself took that decision or that she and her booker took that decision together... I mean, if bookers taking this decision on their own and without consulting with the girl was THAT common, clients would obviously know there is no reason to ask - she simply doesn't know anything about it...

a good, busy, money making agency is not going to tolerate a girl turning down jobs/castings.

 

[fashionkitten7]

a good, busy, money making agency is not going to tolerate a girl turning down jobs/castings.

Would you say that you don't know of an agency that would discuss things such as I mentioned with thier models at all ? Including smaller agencies ?