Controversial Opinions on Fashion

[blueorchid]

Fashion tastes swing between two poles, but I'm not sure why women not dressing sexy riles people up. Were you shrieking the opposite when dressing sexier was ~en vogue~ "WHY CAN'T WOMEN WEAR CARDIGANS WITHOUT BEING CALLED FRIGID 😡" I think we'll be back to that soon enough, if we survive the upcoming inevitable economic crisis lol.

 

[velvetandsilk]

If fashion truly cared about women in a feminist way they wouldn’t have set impossible standards for young women to maintain and they wouldn’t have created an environment filled with abuse (Elite’s John Casablancas). But let’s note that men have the most important positions in this industry.
It’s also very damaging to women’s anatomy and body type since most of them have hips and busts. Does anyone know how this standard of the 5’11 woman with 34 hip inches came to be? Do they want to save the expensive fabric?

Until the 70s, models were much more diverse in terms of height, some were 162-172. There were also different categories, magazines had theirs, fashion houses had theirs, others worked for commerce. Girls treated it as an additional job. Sometimes a girl from London went to NY to work, but it was also connected with reports for TV/press to show a teenager who defined a given era/trend. Sometimes they tried to send models from NYC to Paris for shows, but it wasn't on such a large scale as it is today. If a photographer liked you, they could take you for some commercial work.
In the 70s, Casablancas appeared, who had a specific taste. Moreover, he was womanizer, who would get girls. He proposed to some models that they would not have to pay the agency 20 percent commission if they went to parties and dinners with him... We know very well what it really was about. He was from rich family and had a lot of rich men friends.
At that time, models increasingly started to do different things, and not have their main job for one client. Casablancas also noticed that companies in NY were able to pay higher rates for work than in Paris. He set up a branch in NY and started the so-called Models War with Ford. Then models started earning huge amounts of money because agencies created various dramas and the gossip press wrote about it, plus they realized that some models were increasing product sales and demanded more money. In the 90s they started hiring girls from South America and Eastern Europe because the rates for models from Western Europe/USA reached the highest possible level.
Year by year the rates are getting lower and lower, but it is still attractive money for a 15/16 year old.

They hire 15/16 year olds specifically, at that age it is easy to convince you that you don't have to pay for certain jobs because it will pay off one day. The vision of traveling seems very attractive, but in reality you spend most of your time in hotels. You learn this way of working and then it is hard to fight for changes. Those few days when you manage to earn e.g. 10 thousand for one day of work make you forget about the days when you worked for free. As for weight, it's a form of control by the agency and the easiest way to get rid of you when they don't want you anymore. Most smoke to keep the weight down, some have health problems, but it's taboo.

 

[svpernova]

Thank you for your thorough response, I had read about the model war with Ford and it’s truly sad how 15-16 year old girls have to start modelling at such a delicate age. Modelling is truly an exhausting job.

 

[Melancholybaby]

I still remember that story about a model eating balls of cotton and get chills down my spine.

 

[alwaysademo]

^Not raining on your parade, it's all very interesting to think about but how is that a controversial opinion? it's the dominant view. Controversial take would be: girls should start at 14, go through that rat race and through that natural selection process emerge a Kate or a Lulu.

Here's a spicy take on the bland brand: MGC is original in her taste for campaigns. Not praising, just noting how particular it is.

 

[Melancholybaby]

^Not raining on your parade, it's all very interesting to think about but how is that a controversial opinion? it's the dominant view. Controversial take would be: girls should start at 14, go through that rat race and through that natural selection process emerge a Kate or a Lulu.

It wasn't very clear, but my post was a response to some of the assertions in this thread that some women are just naturally 6ft tall and a size 0 and it's easy/normal for them to remain so until they're 50 with little to no effort. Now that's a hot take I definitely don't agree with, and this thread is not just for people to post their opinions without any discussion or pushback whatsoever. The weight talk ban all those years ago might seem extreme now, but it happened for a very good reason.

 

[Lola701]

Lotta is the spiritual successor of Carine who was the spiritual successor of CCD

She does not nearly have the print legacy of the other two but her styling (runway and personal) really resonates with this generation’s view of how they want to express their sexuality and sensibilities with fashion.

That’s a controversial statement…
Does it though? Carine and CCD’s styling is very much in line with their personal style though…. And that’s the school of ELLE, which is different from the school of Vogue which was about being at the service of photography.
I think she is more of a latter. I don’t feel like her styling is that recognizable even though she is a fairly good stylist.

She is very Anglo-Saxon to me in reality. More of a Joe McKenna influence….

 

[alwaysademo]

It wasn't very clear, but my post was a response to some of the assertions in this thread that some women are just naturally 6ft tall and a size 0 and it's easy/normal for them to remain so until they're 50 with little to no effort. Now that's a hot take I definitely don't agree with, and this thread is not just for people to post their opinions without any discussion or pushback whatsoever. The weight talk ban all those years ago might seem extreme now, but it happened for a very good reason.

Hi, I didn't mean to reply to your post, but the one before you, sorry for the mix-up.

 

[hamburgers]

That’s a controversial statement…
Does it though? Carine and CCD’s styling is very much in line with their personal style though…. And that’s the school of ELLE, which is different from the school of Vogue which was about being at the service of photography.
I think she is more of a latter. I don’t feel like her styling is that recognizable even though she is a fairly good stylist.

She is very Anglo-Saxon to me in reality. More of a Joe McKenna influence….

I think her professional styling is very much her personal style we saw how her runway styling evolved when she went from stocky butch goth to thin coquettish blond. That change was a prologue to the shift from millenial 2010's quirky and sincere body positivity aesthetic to 2020's Gen Z cynical Ozempic era.

She may not have some iconic calling cards like Carine's pencil skirts and blouses or CCD's black tops with gold jewelry, but there is something very girl who grew up on social media (whether it was livejournal, blogspot, tumblr, etc.) about Lotta's POV that resonates with a larger crowd now that almost everyone does. It's like a cynical take on femininity from the late 90's-10's or playing around with it at least. A mix of Harajuku street, mid 2000's "popular girl" trends, and some eurotrash that merges into what people call y2k fashion now.

While she didn't do much for Mulberry or Ferragamo, I think the heat she brought to Balenciaga, Blumarine, and Miu Miu gives her the same aura of being in tune with the zeitgeist that Carine and CCD had in their heydays. I'd argue that the recent Chloe collections (that I still like) don't have the same bolt of fashion lightning the debut did because Lotta was replaced by Elodie David. I know Elodie styled the debut show, but a lot of it was repeated looks from the pre-fall Lotta worked on.

 

[alwaysademo]

^Lotta definitely belongs to that rare lineage of tastemaking stylists so to speak. It's a shame we can't discuss Demna's Balenciaga thoughtfully in this forum, a transgressive HF pov that won over quite the wide-ranging clientele.

 

[Cocteau Stone]

I think her professional styling is very much her personal style we saw how her runway styling evolved when she went from stocky butch goth to thin coquettish blond. That change was a prologue to the shift from millenial 2010's quirky and sincere body positivity aesthetic to 2020's Gen Z cynical Ozempic era.

She may not have some iconic calling cards like Carine's pencil skirts and blouses or CCD's black tops with gold jewelry, but there is something very girl who grew up on social media (whether it was livejournal, blogspot, tumblr, etc.) about Lotta's POV that resonates with a larger crowd now that almost everyone does. It's like a cynical take on femininity from the late 90's-10's or playing around with it at least. A mix of Harajuku street, mid 2000's "popular girl" trends, and some eurotrash that merges into what people call y2k fashion now.

While she didn't do much for Mulberry or Ferragamo, I think the heat she brought to Balenciaga, Blumarine, and Miu Miu gives her the same aura of being in tune with the zeitgeist that Carine and CCD had in their heydays. I'd argue that the recent Chloe collections (that I still like) don't have the same bolt of fashion lightning the debut did because Lotta was replaced by Elodie David. I know Elodie styled the debut show, but a lot of it was repeated looks from the pre-fall Lotta worked on.

Personally, her resonance is one that is really palatable in the end. Every time I see her show styling tricks, I think of Ssense. From Vetements, Balenciaga, Blumarine, Mulberry, Chloe and now Miu Miu (among others), something about her feels and looks so siphoned and programmed. This isn’t to discredit her in a negative way but there is something certainly watered down about her approach where her identity with styling is the fact that she’s kind of “identity-less”. Similar to Katie Grand, who I think she’s bit of a spiritual successor of more so that Carine and CCD.

By all means she does what she does well, it’s researched to a minute point but that’s where it loses me. It lacks a timelessness because it’s stuck in the nostalgia of the past.

 

[Lola701]

I think her professional styling is very much her personal style we saw how her runway styling evolved when she went from stocky butch goth to thin coquettish blond. That change was a prologue to the shift from millenial 2010's quirky and sincere body positivity aesthetic to 2020's Gen Z cynical Ozempic era.

She may not have some iconic calling cards like Carine's pencil skirts and blouses or CCD's black tops with gold jewelry, but there is something very girl who grew up on social media (whether it was livejournal, blogspot, tumblr, etc.) about Lotta's POV that resonates with a larger crowd now that almost everyone does. It's like a cynical take on femininity from the late 90's-10's or playing around with it at least. A mix of Harajuku street, mid 2000's "popular girl" trends, and some eurotrash that merges into what people call y2k fashion now.

While she didn't do much for Mulberry or Ferragamo, I think the heat she brought to Balenciaga, Blumarine, and Miu Miu gives her the same aura of being in tune with the zeitgeist that Carine and CCD had in their heydays. I'd argue that the recent Chloe collections (that I still like) don't have the same bolt of fashion lightning the debut did because Lotta was replaced by Elodie David. I know Elodie styled the debut show, but a lot of it was repeated looks from the pre-fall Lotta worked on.

But I don’t disagree that she represents the moment but for me, she dresses in MiuMiu because she is working for MiuMiu. And because of the commercial success, her influence grows at MiuMiu.

I think it’s interesting that you mention Ferragamo and Mulberry. Because essentially, her styling is different there and so the impact of her influence. Yes, there’s a common thread regarding nostalgia about Balenciaga, Blumarine and MiuMiu but it’s precisely about her taste, not so much about her style.

When you see CCD work for Azzedine, Karl and Gianni yes, the personalities of the three designers shines through but it’s obvious that it’s done by CCD. It’s even funnier when for example you look at the switch at Versace from the moment they switched from CCD to Carine.

And unsurprisingly, I didn’t liked her latest styling at MiuMiu because it was so much about her personal style. For me, as a stylist, Lotta’s strength is her capacity in sharpen a strong aesthetic. Why we assume that it would have worked at Chloe? Because Chemena’s POV is already defined. The message just needs to be more sharp.

MiuMiu has always been about a certain POV but under Katie Grand, compared to Olivier Rizzo, the message became messy. What Lotta did? She made it sharper.

For me her school of styling is very Anglo-Saxon and it’s probably for the better because it doesn’t put you in a box. @Cocteau Stone mentioned Grand and I agree. Grand has a terrible personal style but when she is good, she can totally transform and elevate the vision of a designer. She did great things in her first period at MiuMiu. Her work with Marc Jacobs at Vuitton was exceptional.

I think Carine, Emmanuelle or Carlyne, the girls from the ELLE school, comes with a different aesthetic bagage. In a way, they are brining their personalities more than their savoir-faire. It will be interesting to see what Lotta will eventually style next.

And doing MiuMiu is already a big shift for her in terms of access to talent and maybe in terms of being a household name and not just the cool stylist. It redefines her status. She gets to work with Meisel now and she is not a disruptive voice anymore.

 

[Phuel]

^Lotta definitely belongs to that rare lineage of tastemaking stylists so to speak. It's a shame we can't discuss Demna's Balenciaga thoughtfully in this forum, a transgressive HF pov that won over quite the wide-ranging clientele.

Lotta— along with Demna, have been the only true talents to have such a distinct and divisive POV, to have emerged from this lesserest of fashion era. It’s unfortunate that Demna has made this ultimate Faustian pact to appeal to and appease the masses rather than dedicate his talent to high fashion. But this most corporate of all fashion eras wouldn’t have allowed him to have thrived had his Balenciaga not been a household name that’s namedropped by 12yos, to lowly drug runners flexing name brands, to the high fashion victims desperately seeking attention. With all the tiresome gimmicks to pierce through to see his and Lotta’s talent and vision, it’s understandable why so many dismiss him-- and her, on impulse. If I’m in a generous mood, I’d like to believe he’s been consistently trolling and pranking the fashion victims in plain sight. And that’s kind of a reassuring but naive thought in this most obnoxious of fashion era.