Culture, Aesthetics and Fashion Discussion

[travolta]

i don't mean to be off-topic--this isn't. I am tying this article in w/ my previous post about non-linear thinking (eskimos), how you form ideas, which in turn creates a greater sensitivity and tolerance toward art, aesthetics (fashion)
I found an article about dyslexia, and i found similarities between dyslexics and eskimo thought processing..if dyslexia could be called a culture--and i believe it could be.

An intriguing theory floated by Steffert is that perhaps “the uncertainty of the dyslexic world promotes a tolerance for ambiguity and exploration of possibilities, which is the basis of creativity”.

“We assume we’re in the same universe,” observes the artist potter Robert Cooper, “but we could be in a parallel universe with a sheet of glass between.”

http://www.icon-magazine.co.uk/issues/013/dyslexia.htm

 

[travolta]

also in the book they said eskimos were very good at electronics, and interestingly people w/ dyslexia are very gifted as engineers, because of their spatial perception.

 

[screenage]

Is non-linear the same as lateral, thinking? I really like the idea that you have posed (not strictly from a fashion point of view). I'm quite interested in the thought that illnesses so to speak exaggerate certain traits people have, and teh person with that mental illness, is super human to an extent, for example autist are good with numbers and engineering, but not very good with people, the common thought is that they have exaggerated masculinity (men are more than twice as likely to be autist than females), and also have super mental capabilities, much like having an extra plain of thought (non-linear) or in the, this is very interestign becasue maths etc is quite linear,

Sorry to I hope this made sense!

 

[travolta]

yes, they are both intuitive, indirect thought

 

[travolta]

it's interesting to see these examples from a survival point of view. it says each way of thinking has evolved out of a need to function in society.

(dyslexic) young designers to question the formal structures of their lives and encourages them to be more subversive. “It stands to reason that if the system doesn't work, you try to redesign it,” he says.

Originality of thought is a by-product of dyslexia, an inventive approach to problem-solving. Because we’re good at lateral thinking, we are by nature more creative.” Ingegerd Råman has arrived at a similar conclusion via a different route. “The fact that dyslexic people confuse b’s and d’s suggests something in the brain is not organised. In the Netherlands dyslexic kids have been taught to read upside down. This is also what designers do – they turn things upside down.”

reading upside down is how eskimos read. they don't need to think linearly, as their environment is most suited for spatial thinking. if the united states is an extreme example of linear thinking, it would make sense the lack of aesthetic consideration. I feel like the culture is based around directness..it's work work..go home and zone out in front of the tv..there isn't much subtely at work here.

it is also interesting to examine japanese designers in this light, because eastern culture is more lateral than western culture. i also think the design world is starting to really understand there is a necessity to design holistically, w/ both logic and intuition instead of either or...it has to be integrated. i think a lot of these principles will be focused on in design companies, and there with be a balancing out and a blurring of western and eastern thought.

 

[cbcb]

You've hit on a few things at the back of my mind... so this post is going to be kind of random...

One.. whenever I get a taste of French or Japanese culture and ideas (perhaps easiest through films for me), it occurs sharply to me that there seems to be an entirely different thinking structure at work than what I'm most familiar with. I have to look at things in a new light and try to perceive where the people exhibiting these cultures are coming from. (In some cases I really like the approach and in some cases it doesn't resonate for me.)

Two.. A tangent but kind of interesting to me:
Researchers Pinpoint Brain's Sarcasm Sensor
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthology/story?id=782761

Three.. apropo to the discussion:
Is Asperger's Syndrome/High Functioning Austism Necessarily A Disability?
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7138/lobby/disability.htm

Perhaps this community (TFS) has an over-share of creative people who think differently than most of the population (maybe more inductively by what inspires them than deductively... or maybe they integrate both better than many people). There are some things here that I adore that could also be 'pathologized' - for instance, the threads for 'this or that', 'ask the person below you a question' and 'answers only' ... these are really just iotas of conversations, things that you can pay attention to for 3 seconds, and then jump to another thread! Perfect for my attention span these days.

I don't know all the factors that can lead up to a person thinking kind of differently from most. But if I can borrow a thought from the 'future of fashion' thread... change and 'mutation' so to speak are not necessarily bad. Not always comfortable either.

Or maybe creative people are just 'networked' and we haven't figured out 'to what' yet.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

No, of course the proletariat isn't an aspirational class, but that doesn't mean that it's not romanticized. My point was that while poverty may be a hated social ill, and no more so than in the US, that animosity isn't necessarily directed at the working classes themselves.

Can you give me an example of how it is romanticized??

Look at television, the biggest ratings are from teenage dramas about rich good looking kids, reality shows where people are trying to get rich quick, and pop culture shows that only push the glamour of having insane amounts of money. There's no respect for the working class let alone romance.

 

[travolta]

thank you cbcb. i thought the second link was the most interesting. esp. in light of what screenage brought up about men being more likely to have autism. it seems to be an extreme generalization about male's tendencies..lack of emotion in comparison to females, spatial thinking-predisposition to mathematics/ sciences...also how this mind frame is not the most ideal socially, but in terms of business and systems it seems most appropriate. i feel like a lot of this research is tainted, as is all research, coming from the view of someone who is not wholey objective..and that is the reason why social inadequecies--dyslexia, autism is considered abnormal. i feel like now that that times are changing, people are becoming more sophisticated? in dealing w/ information processing that it makes sense to find major gaps in this thinking--ration, logic etc.
to me this focus on the experiential is not a gimmick or something that will go away, but it is nature balancing itself out..as we both need our intuition and our logic. if the world evolved in a way that you needed to survive in the world w/ equal amounts of this right brained and left brained processing..then i'm sure those who have an equal balance of both (dyslexics) could rule the world...

 

[travolta]

Can you give me an example of how it is romanticized??

Look at television, the biggest ratings are from teenage dramas about rich good looking kids, reality shows where people are trying to get rich quick, and pop culture shows that only push the glamour of having insane amounts of money. There's no respect for the working class let alone romance.

i think people naturally root for the underdog. it is formula in film, surefire way to tug on your heartstrings..i don't think people aspire to be poor, but i think americans at the core, have a particularly severe philosophy of life: you get what you deserve. if you come from nothing and you work your way up..then all the more to root for you, but if you come from money, you are scorned as not working hard enough. i think the over saturation of celebs who just happen to have money-representing the us's own version on monarchy-account for this...but as you say, i think it's all about the entrepenual spirit...i could see it could create a culture of greed. celebs know how to work it..they could be seen as clever, i think americans want to be this shrewd.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

I see what you are saying travolta. I am a little to drunk to comment now but it's a good discussion!

 

[travolta]

i am tipsy too..but i think it makes me think clearly. analyze that.

 

[Snow-White]

i am tipsy too..but i think it makes me think clearly. analyze that.

I do agree that Creative People think alot differently.

I have been drawing, writing and so on since i was a kid. Also learning different thigns on my own.
I have always had a problem making friends who i can talk to ...
Also tend to talk more to older people ...

Travolta, i think that when people who are creative get high on subtsances it effects them differently...

 

[Snow-White]

I am from India which has a culture that dates back thousands of years, you can see it in the clothes, the architecture, paintings and so on. The different influences of all the countries that conquered us time to time... the way Indians have assimilated all this adds to the richness.

Old Indian design is so aesthetically CORRECT, it pleases the trained eye.
Old ASIAN AND EUROPEAN ART is BEATIFUL. so easthetically pleasing

I have travelld a bit around the world, European culture is also developed ..
The way they function is definitely better in comparison to people i have met from the US. I feel this land is still in its infancy and very much developing.
So far i have not travelled to the US. A land without a culture that dates back a lonmg time seems strange to me.

I am also part of a world-wide Yoga foundation and there are such few people from the USA. The form of YOGA 'sold' in the USA is not YOGA at all (trust me on this one im from India where it was born)
Europeans are responsive to Yoga and there are some authentic palces to learn there.
The connection of Body, Soul and Mind is understood by them.

The Japanese people i have met are so respectful, they understand this basic philosophy of life so well. I like such people... its a part of Japanese culture it seems.

 

[droogist]

Can you give me an example of how it is romanticized??

Look at television, the biggest ratings are from teenage dramas about rich good looking kids, reality shows where people are trying to get rich quick, and pop culture shows that only push the glamour of having insane amounts of money. There's no respect for the working class let alone romance.

travolta already got at some of it...but I actually wasn't talking about pop culture. The working class is heavily romanticized in politics. Why do you think every time an election rolls around, every candidate immediately dons hunting jackets, hard hats, and starts talking about how daddy was a coalminer? Because in terms of American identity, that's the gold standard. In reality American politicians might be millionaires and CEOs, but when it comes to image, everyone wants to be "just folks."

 

[tott]

travolta already got at some of it...but I actually wasn't talking about pop culture. The working class is heavily romanticized in politics. Why do you think every time an election rolls around, every candidate immediately dons hunting jackets, hard hats, and starts talking about how daddy was a coalminer? Because in terms of American identity, that's the gold standard. In reality American politicians might be millionaires and CEOs, but when it comes to image, everyone wants to be "just folks."

I think many, if not all, politicians are simply trying to convince voters that they understand them and their needs, that they really are "just like them". I don't think romanticism has a lot to do with it, it's much more cynical.

 

[droogist]

Yes, it's cynical; as I said, it's all about image. But it's for the gratification not just of the working-class voters, but for the voting population as a whole. The working class is accepted as the ideal representative of American identity. If the upper class were the accepted ideal, public figures wouldn't bother downplaying their position in it.

 

[Snow-White]

I went to a 'alternative school' started by a Indian philosopher named Krishnamurti and one of the main focuses of the school was to teach understanding and analysis of the world and of subjects. It was a very open mindd palce and I feel like I had more more chance to explore and understand thinsg than just be fed information. Like travolta I think I was "ruined". Befor that i went to a public school in LA that was like HELL .

SPACEMIU ! You went to a J. Krishnamurti school Me too !
When i was there i had no idea how beautiful and ideal it was .. ..till i got out. But its changed me forever, pople who go to Krishnamurti schools are different anyway. [And you know what i mean by that]

 

[faust]

I hadn't thought of Valerie Steele, good call. I have been using a lot of Eicher, particularly her collection on Ethnicity and Dress. My Bibliography so far looks like

Bercovtich & Elgstrom: Culture and International Mediation: Exploring Theoretical and Empirical Linkages: Internation Negotiation 6: 3-23, 2002.

Faure, G. O and Sjostedt, G (1993) “Culture and Negotiation: An Introduction” in G.O Faure and J.Z Rubin, editors, Culture and Negotiation. Newbury Park, CA: Sage, pp. 1-13


Nash, M. (1989), The Cauldron of Ethnicity in the Modern World, Chicago: University of Chicago.

“Damhorst, M.L. (1990) In search of a common thread: Classification of information communicated through dress. Clothing and Textiles Research Journal 8 (2), 1-12.

Cohen, Raymond. Theater of Power: The Art of Diplomatic Signalling. London, UK: Longman Group, 1987.

Johnson, Kim K. P. & Sharron J. Lennon.”Introduction: Appearance and Social Power “Appearnace and Power. Oxford, UK: Berg Oxford International Publishers, 1999.

and some regular diplomatic theorists Morgenthau, Magalhae’: The pure concept of diplomacy / José Calvet de Magalhães; translated by Bernardo Futscher Pereira. New York : Greenwood Press, 1988. pp.1-13.

(Bull, 173) Anarchical Society, (Frey & Frey, 412) Der Derian: Mediating Estrangement: A Theory for Diplomacy, Sartori, Fearon

I think it's missing an important piece, but I'm not done with my paper yet

Oh, and in a word, totally agree with meme. Colonization.

 

[cbcb]

Here's an interesting article:
Mild Autism Has "Selective Advantages"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7030731/
(An engineer's view of Asperger's.)
That's from this MSNBC section on autism:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6844737/

 

[meme527]

asperger's syndrome - wired

both my ex and his son have asperger's syndrome.

this article links to a quiz that you can take to assess yourself for asperger's traits.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html


meme