Dior: The Borehouse

Such a difficult topic
I think they lost interest from the customers because other labels also got great and hip designers,
fashion is all about who is on top now...which brand is cool and so and so

one thing that might help is to re vamp the brand, chopping off all those tacky logo handbags, and the un-necessary lines

like Versace did, they shut down Versus, and they didnt show couture on a runway, they focused on main line

poor john
 
^I love the article posted, I guess that is just what it comes down to, sadly...

No, I don't want to have the old Dior woman back. I think she was trashy. The saddle bags made no sense to me. The shirts? Beyond tacky. Yeah, she had sex, but in public places, where everyone could see it and sometimes it was not nice to look at.
But I don't want that cougar striving down the catwalk in a hot pink bar suit, skirt missing either.
What do I suggest?

- less heavy-handedness. Not always a bucket full of colour, no massive collars, bulky a-cuts. Too much of everything, and stiff on top of it. And no ****** make-up, at leats not that version we had for at least three seasons now...
- less obvious inspirations. As a kid I loved it. But as a grown-up woman I don't want a dress that says 'Hello, I am a dress indeed inspired by the Oriental hues of early Dior. Just look at my gold print! Oh, and see these heels? They're all African, so there are fertility godesses! Awesome, huh?' Or mix them. Throw in so much of them 'till they are unrecognizable
- make it modern. Nobody always wants to look like they're stumbled out of a period movie, for god's sake. The designers we love create a look for our century, they don't rehash decade after decade. And don't always update your best looks. Make new ones.
- make it sexy. You don't have to paint nipples or have the models wear latex from the sex-shop. To look like a prostitutes who found a pile on the money on the streets and took it to Dior is not an appealing look, either. But a bit, at last. Make it see through lace, if you have to. But create a girl that wants to sleep with someone from time to time. No matter what age your customer is, they still want a little fun...

I think Galliano's own line still has all of this. Yes, the colouring is unbearable sometimes. But it's so much better and so much more creative than his work at Dior. I can't help but think that there's alot of pressure put on him at Dior.
 
The one main thing that Galliano needs to do is to knock his Dior woman off of her pedestal, in a nut shell. He needs to do what he did with the Hobo collection in 2000, the Matrix collection before that; forget the bourgeois hauteur of the salon, the new look and the history of the house and instead do what feels right for today. If the Dior execs are determined to keep the product on the runway, fine, keep it on the runway instead of sending out collections that won't wind up in production. But putting pressure on Galliano to simply xerox a 60 year old moment in time is ludicrous.

What's really confusing is how the other big labels under the LVMH umbrella, like Givenchy, Marc Jacobs, Fendi and Vuitton, seem unrestrained creatively and Dior seems to be on such a short leash. It doesn't make sense.
 
here is the "Bar suit" mentioned, for anyone who was wondering..
S/S 1947
72t9h4.jpg

vam.ac.uk
 
What's really confusing is how the other big labels under the LVMH umbrella, like Givenchy, Marc Jacobs, Fendi and Vuitton, seem unrestrained creatively and Dior seems to be on such a short leash. It doesn't make sense.

that's because Dior doesn't fall under the LVMH umbrella? idk, but Dior is part of Christian Dior SA, which partially owns LVMH, while both of those companies are owned by Arnault.

it's the same CEO and same owner, but not the same board and people else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Dior_SA
 
^ Forgot that little detail. :ninja:

John's kinda f***ed then, isn't he?
 
^ No he isn't: he is one of the wealthiest designers ever lived.

He is blessed with many many things including an endless supply of materials, techniques and above all money to do anything he wants. I do also blame Arnault for many things, but I seriously do not think if Galliano wanted to do things a bit more creative like what Marc has been pursuing now, then he would be allowed to.

I know LV clothes do not sell at all, and it is only the bags that matter for Marc and his team, but still, I seriously began to question John's taste and vision now in the 21st Century. It is easy to blame the management, but Arnault gave so much to designers and fashion at large. He is the person who paid all the bills for almost everything we saw and loved so far from many many prominent designers. I am sure he would allow John to stretch his imagination a little and come up with things similar to what Karl is accomplishing over at Chanel -a privately owned company I might add.

Dior looks dated and cheap. And John and his team are the ones to blame here. After all, Arnault is not a creative force and I am sure he knows better than to meddle with these types of issues.

This article was posted before, but I think we may need to revisit it:

Bernard Arnault Doesn't Like Plastic Pendants on His Dior Bags


So just how does the richest man in France, and one of the most powerful in fashion, do it? A profile in the March 2009 issue of WSJ. gives us a clue about the dealings of Bernard Arnault, CEO of LVMH, who Anna Wintour says "has a very strong understanding of what [his] designers do. If he’s concerned about something, he’ll speak up, but he’ll never tell them, ‘Do this’ or ‘Do that.”

But he will give them a strong hint. When John Galliano was presenting the Pre-Fall 2009 collection to buyers in Paris, Arnault came to oversee. Twenty-three models are escorted in for Arnault's perusal, and Galliano "reads nervously in English from a prepared speech to explain the source of his inspiration: Dior seen through the erotic lens of photographer Helmut Newton":

Arnault, seated on a white sofa, focuses on two ingredients: Is the piece “Dior” enough and is it priced right? “Ah, this is true Dior,” he states definitively of a black waist-cinched suit with pleated pockets. “It’s Dior safari,” he says of a beige coat with fox-fur collar. A skirt suit in Prince of Wales check appears: “The Dior woman will like this and will want to come back season after season,” he says.

"Ça, c’est beau — how much is it?” Arnault asks as a tall blond model stands before him in a $1,500 red double-face wool dress. “Will that sell?” he asks of an embroidered $15,000 cream-colored gown. (The answer was yes, in Monaco, Hong Kong and Moscow.) “Why not use those black masks for the ad campaign?” “If you tell me so, sir,” Galliano answers.


But the "obsessing," as Arnault's wife, Helene Mercier, puts it, really begins when he spots a $750 red-rimmed cotton canvas bag:

“I just don’t like it. I don’t like it at all." He tugs disapprovingly on a round plastic pendant on the bag’s handle. “Can this be taken off?” he asks the cluster of Dior executives standing behind him. He takes the bag off its perch and continues: “The black and gray versions of the bag are already bordering on the commercial, but the red goes too far . . . it’s just not Dior.”


“What do you think?” Arnault asks Delphine Arnault-Gancia, 33, his daughter from his first marriage, who is Dior’s deputy managing director. She slings the bag over her shoulder and pushes her long blond hair out of the way. “It grows on you,” she answers uneasily. She gestures toward her light gray tweed suit and black patent heels. “Don’t imagine it with what I’m wearing, think of it with jeans.”

Arnault turns to Galliano. “John, help me out here. Do you like it?” he asks. “It’s for a younger crowd,” the designer ventures. “Think of it for the streets of St. Tropez.” Arnault shakes his head. “I don’t like it,” he says. “I don’t want to see it in stores.”
Arnault may invoke fear in those around him, but he likes to paint himself as "understanding": “Designers are closer to artists than to engineers. They’re not like normal managers, and you have to balance their creativity and rationality. John, Karl, Marc, they’re genius. You can’t put them into a rational environment. They’re sometimes late, and you have to accept that if you work with them, you have to be understanding with them.”


That doesn't sound that horrid to me. If he doesn't care about these things, then Dior would be nowhere today. And I am sure the bag he rejected was atrocious to begin with. A '$750 red-rimmed cotton canvas bag'? It doesn't really sound like Chanel's biggest competition, does it?

He likes to elevate the look and feeling, and yes, it sounds like he is demanding, but why should he sacrifice from business when Dior could earn so much money while keeping things luxe and affluent? The creative team must deliver more appropriate products, else they should be replaced. (Not John, since he renewed his contract indefinitely I think)



fashionologie.com
 
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these articles really do shed light on what's going on internally at the house of dior. while i think the fashion elite may have gotten to the top hats at dior to get them to elevate the house to the grandeur of its former glory, they will do so to the detriment of their bottom line. yes, i understand that there's a certain breed of rich woman who stopped buying suits at the boutique, but here in america there's a certain strain of girl who goes to the mall who has stopped doing the dior thing. sure, they do the dior show cosmetics and will grab a dior bag to look different than their chanel and gucci clad peers, but they're not going crazy like they used to.

an earlier commenter said that dior's supposed to compete with chanel. i'm not sure that's completely fair. whoever mentioned that the dior girl and the gucci girl used to compete i think hit it right.
 
these articles really do shed light on what's going on internally at the house of dior. while i think the fashion elite may have gotten to the top hats at dior to get them to elevate the house to the grandeur of its former glory, they will do so to the detriment of their bottom line. yes, i understand that there's a certain breed of rich woman who stopped buying suits at the boutique, but here in america there's a certain strain of girl who goes to the mall who has stopped doing the dior thing. sure, they do the dior show cosmetics and will grab a dior bag to look different than their chanel and gucci clad peers, but they're not going crazy like they used to.

an earlier commenter said that dior's supposed to compete with chanel. i'm not sure that's completely fair. whoever mentioned that the dior girl and the gucci girl used to compete i think hit it right.


Well I had said both things.

I think it used to be Dior vs. Gucci back in early 2000s - Galliano vs. Ford. With accessories, it-bags and ultra sexy clothing and everything. Each brand used to release some new item or product constantly to compete with each other, and women went crazy along the way. The it-bags, the shoes, the logos all over the place... Such spectacle. But now, it seems Dior tries to position its image and place in the luxury industry against Chanel with much more sell-able couture, endless cosmetic and fragrance releases, fine jewelry, skincare, make-up, RtW and costume jewelry, moviestars as spokespeople etc. etc....

Gucci is a different business altogether. they are just about selling bags and shoes now. Much more like LV, to my opinion.
 
^ That article though kind of goes against what you're saying, Pasha. Clearly Arnault is meddling in the creative process, and it doesn't seem like that was always the case if the archives are anything to go by. If Arnault is deciding what is and is not "Dior" then how are John and his team to blame for simply giving the boss what he feels is right? Granted it could be done in a marginally better way, but if John's instinct isn't to do bland, tasteful tweed skirt suits surely the result isn't going to be all that spectacular. These recent Dior collections have this underlying feel of defeat to them. There's no enjoyment, no passion, no creative burn to them, and I just can't bring myself to believe that it's because Galliano is just not working hard enough.

And I don't know that I'd really compare Dior RTW to Chanel RTW. Couture, maybe, but not the RTW.
 
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I hope they read all of these post because there are some good things mntioned in here...its funny to me how John Galliano is something new and different everytime, and I know that show is going to excite me whether its the set, make-up or clothes..but for Dior its like he isn't even designing it anymore..its as if Arnault sucked all the creativity out of Dior and gave an old lady the permission to design clothing..and Arnault is really hurting the brand if he keeps regulating Dior like this
 
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The thing with Dior is that it's something of an institution, together with only Chanel I think. It's been around for eons, it excelled in the highdays of couture and redefined the face of fashion in the early fifties late forties. That feel of 'Dior as a phenomena' in French culture or fashion's culture is what Arnault tries to keep alive. It all started with the appointment of Galliano in the first place. What Arnault (and all LVMH executives) wanted was a designer to bring back that redefining power the house of Dior once had. And it worked! Yet again, Dior was THE number fashion house for LVMH. I don't know if it still is nowadays when we talk financials, but one thing is clear: the redefinement of fashion is no longer something that fits the brand. It's back to it's stuffy mid-nineties self.

This makes me wonder....when we compare what Galliano does for Dior and for his own line, it's like he pumps his creativity and inspiration into his own line mostly (this statement is debatable, cause not everyone saw the creativity in FW 0910 for example)...is John Galliano as a brand owned by LVMH as welll? I really have no idea :ninja:
 
^ I think they own part of it, or at least have some financial stake in it.
 
^I don't know: it just seems like maybe Arnault feels the need to.

I mean, I cannot be the only one who looks at those satin lady Dior bags and clutches and think 'these are the cheapest things I have ever seen in my life'... they are not worthy of the Dior name. And yes, I am sure Arnault can be difficult, but a canvas bag with red piping or whatever it is sound scary coming from Dior. I watched his interaction with Marc for instance in that documentary (the one I know you have also seen Spike) and he seems to be a person who enjoys control, but also someone who lets designers explore different fields and creative outlets as long as the product at the end looks flashy enough to sell.

Dior just looks so all over the place. They are cutting teh most expensive couture gowns in the business, yet also manage to sell a 750 dollar red canvas bag. It seems like some of the products, fragrance releases, especially teh fashion jewelry segments look simply too crappy to be called high-end. And what is worse, today's Dior reminds me of 80s and early 90s YSL with tons of cheap products manufactured by licensing companies, selling YSL flip-flops for 20 dollars.

I would be even content with boring and dated, if the garments looked spectacular and supremely expensive looking. Fashion changes, maybe the days of the crazy Dior was meant to end. Like Giorgio Armani says, 'explosions are explosions: they end quick and leave behind only ashes...' It is true. Maybe the Gisele-Rhea Dior girl will never be back... ever. But if Galliano and Arnault want to place this brand to a more mature place, then they must deliver high quality and supreme taste along with it. Not with lavender suits with leopard collars, ****** make-up just to make things look edgy and shapeless dresses that look like sleepwear.

One final thing: Galliano works with and through inspirations: the basic 'paint by the numbers' system. It may be China, Egypt, Arabia, Russia, Austria, Greece, Turkey, 50s, 60s, origami, Marie Antoinette, Josephine, Edie, Rastafaria, the homeless... whatever. He did a marvelous job with aoll, that is another issue. But his best collections came from these one inspiration and apply it all over the place and exhaust it so much that the sheer spectacle alone would be enough to dazzle everyone. Maybe he cannot find anything new to 'get inspired' from, because he did it all, and again and again. Maybe his sketchpad is finished. And maybe now, he is struggling to come up with anything fresh after all this time, so he is clinging onto this lame 'New Look' and Monsieur's archives crap.

It would be a scary though, but maybe true...
 
I don't minding putting those old "new look" essence into collections
but i would love to see new look in a very modern and abstract way.
and dior rarely use prints...

and Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee mass-destruct the Lady Dior bags
I'm sick of them....
i will rather carry a saddle bag (meant for russian whores maybe eventhough...)
 
srsly, the single quote
“If you tell me so, sir,” Galliano answers.
says it all.

and Chanel released those totally pukeworthily hideous "Chanel Unlimited" canvas bags. i'd say a red trimmed canvas bags with Dior charms wouldn't have been the worst idea ever. i mean, it can't get worse than "Dior Golf". (I'll defend Dior Rasta with my life cause i loved the whole craziness of it
xdik2.gif
)
 
First off I wanna say that I love the House of Dior and John no matter what but...

Something is happing with Dior Couture, u can feel it. His RTW collections are fine and seem to be selling but the couture collection dont have that Galliano insperation that they used to have. Now this last season was not horrid, it was just missing the Galliano touch. And it weird that right after the 60th Anniversiy of f the House and John 10th anniversiy that this change started to happen. Look at the collection from 2007 and back and then look at the ones now. There is a clear disconnect and it started in F/W 2008 HC.

That was a good new collection but it lacked what we have seen before and I could have done with out SS 2009 HC. I dont really hate that John is doing these classical inspired collections but where is John in these collections. I think that SS 2008 was the last collection that was truly John. And I think some of it has to do with Arnault. He seems to be in control of alot and has his own vision of what he wants this house be, and its not the same as Johns vision.

This last collection even though I loved it, it seems to be really safe. There are only a few hints of John true creativity in it. He is not putting out horrible collections, because the garments are quite beautiful, there just lacking John. And maybe the world economic situation has something to do with it aswell, Im just guessing. All of this really make me want to see the RTW collection. Because SS 2009 was VERY John Galliano, so I want to see what will happen this season.
 
Maybe he cannot find anything new to 'get inspired' from, because he did it all, and again and again. Maybe his sketchpad is finished. And maybe now, he is struggling to come up with anything fresh after all this time, so he is clinging onto this lame 'New Look' and Monsieur's archives crap.

It would be a scary though, but maybe true...

it can't be true. that last eponymous menswear collection was so inspired, i'm still looking back at it to understand the references. the same goes for his womenswear. seriously, he's bursting with inspiration and creativity and it's clear that's getting stifled.

to return to an earlier point, i can understand why they may want to elevate dior to a brand that competes with chanel since chanel is so wildly popular -- mainly because it has so many access points -- however i don't think you compete with a brand like chanel by becoming another chanel. movie stars ALREADY did dior -- hello charlize theron for j'adore dior -- and dior has lots of revenue streams they could just make better. i don't think suffocating this creativity makes good business sense. honestly, we're seeing the same thing take place at dior homme....are we seriously saying dior homme under kriss van asshe (sp?) is better than under hedi slimane?

i feel like that's how marked the difference is between the old galllino collections and this new dreg.
 
Wow! A lot of opinions. I've got ideas, too, but with doubts...
First of all, i never touched a Dior gown, so i can't comment on the quality. :flower:
The range of our Dior boutique isn't very interesing. They had a lot of simple suits, so its potential costumers are businesswomen. (Not me, who adore the fantasy world of John, no.) I know, the range decided by the boutique owner, and her/his taste, but that's clear Dior makes too much suits. So if i'm not in the target, what i want from them???
Dior is for women 45+. Not for me. Ok, i love John with my whole heart, but that's another thing. We have to separate the heart and the mind. (the mind would buy Dior, the heart would buy John Galliano)

On the other side, people bores anything. I'm boring the Chanel tweed coats, you're boring the Dior things. That's the normal.

I found very funny that the English shop-owner does the WAGs for the standard. If that Coleen C*w wears Juicy Couture, Juicy Couture is the nonplusultra. This is snobbery... This is pathetic.

I see there's something wrong at the Dior, but don't think Galliano is blighted. He's almost 50. He's in the changing age. That's normal he got better and worse period.

I remembered, Toledano said that Dior has to be the privilege of the rich people. Their T-shirts were too cheap and too available. So they changed the trend. This is the result of the changes...

On the red Dior bag story: there was an interview with John some years ago where it cleared he's not as Yes, sir / Thanks, sir man... He has got a strong personality and a big ego. So i don't think he gives up his ideas as easily. I don't regret him, he's not as pigeon-minded person i think...

All my opinion just a theory so i'm sure there's a lot of mistake in them. :flower:
 
the mind would buy Dior, the heart would buy John Galliano


That is a fantastic line, I must say. Bravo.


it can't be true. that last eponymous menswear collection was so inspired, i'm still looking back at it to understand the references. the same goes for his womenswear. seriously, he's bursting with inspiration and creativity and it's clear that's getting stifled.


Was it really?

It was the same thing he does season after season... the horny pirates wearing layer on top of layer out for danger, sex and adventure... It is the same show every season since God knows when. Nothing new.


i don't think suffocating this creativity makes good business sense. honestly, we're seeing the same thing take place at dior homme....are we seriously saying dior homme under kriss van asshe (sp?) is better than under hedi slimane?


Nobody knows what happened with Slimane, so it is futile to discuss him and his ventures over at LVMH... if I were Arnault, I would never ever let him leave, but maybe something happened so unavoidable that he had to go... Tom/Gucci, or Phoebe/Chloe anyone? These things do happen: it is business after all.


movie stars ALREADY did dior -- hello charlize theron for j'adore dior -- and dior has lots of revenue streams they could just make better.


Charlize was Dior's answer for Nicole. Not that original I must say.
 

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