Fetishizing of Ethnic Cultures for a Western Audience

[style_savy]

Fashion is all about expressing oneself. It's a form of art if you think about it and it draws from all different areas of life for inspiration. It can draw from any sort of work place from strip joints to the army it can draw from a landscape and it can draw from different cultures. That is why it is so interesting and that is what I love so much about it. I personally see nothing wrong with it.

 

[oceanharlot]

i was thinking the other day about how in America, there is a general feeling of "culturelessness". I say "culturelessness" because there is no such thing as a plance completely devoid of culture, hamurgers and french fries and yellowstone park are all parts of the American Culture. However, since America is so new, there isnt this deep rooted history under our feet. In Germany, if you are german, you know where you come from. you can trace back several dozen generations, records allowing. In America we do not have this connection with our roots. But we were plopped on this land, like new borns with no history (for the most part, there are always exceptions). then the inter-mixing of cultures began and now America has this combined culture that no one really has a full part of themselves in.

So just as the western europeans that colonized the new land in hopes of finding a new understanding and promise of a better future, we as their propogated offspring have this desire within us to forever be exploring and reaching out into new territories. It is the white man's legacy, taking over and colonizing and exploiting others. So when we take this historical fact into account, coupling it with the "culturelessness" of America, we end up in this place where we are, the explosion of consumerism. why did this happen? how did this happen? (see A Materialistic Society for more info)

I think it comes from this desire to own a part of something real. Something that represents a solid belief, religion, culture, land mass, life, something. We as Americans buy into the idea of owning and posessing a piece of a culture, because we really just want to have the solidity that that item represents for ourselves. That, and westerners are very much still barbarians, pilaging and grabbing what they see for bragging rights. Wearing a kimono still rbings oohs and ahhs for visiting a land far far away, something that very few could do until recently, a fact that puts precidence and the image of wealth onto the person who owns/wears the item.

 

[Spike413]

I find it funny that someone's debating flat sandals (not here, but QuirkyCool mentioned it). That's taking the p.c. mentality a bit too far.
I feel religion is a completely different thing. I'm atheist, but I have Buddhist and Hindu statues in my home. I've educated myself on these religions and their teachings/stories (well, as much as I can), and I treat the statues with the utmost respect. Do you guys think that as long as there's education/respect, it is okay?
That being said, I saw the most cheesy/disrespectful shirt on eBay. It was some awful tie-dye and had a picture of Shiva and Parvati on it. The seller (very Christian, had Jesus quotes all over the auction) describes it as "some Egyptian princess" and so on! I had to e-mail the seller to let them know.

Yes, more the respect part of it. I mean, I'm only vaguley familiar with the teachings of Hinduism, but I find the artifacts (statues of the gods/goddesses and such) to be very beautiful. So while I don't necessarily know what the importance of the item is, or the story behind it or whatever else, I do respect it as a sacred thing to some people.

I dunno, basically I feel like you don't need to know all about a religion or culture in order to use something from it to express yourself as long as you're respectful of it.

 

[gallianoboi]

so i have a question if wearing a rosary because you like & believe in some of the catholics ideas but u are christian is that wrong? and if everyone believed something special was important to their culture i.e. heinna tattoos, and rasta colors then what would we wear b/cuz we would offend some1 if we wore it? im confused

 

[QuirkyCool]

Oceanharlot,maybe you don't realise this,but as fast and to an even greater extent that you feel Americans and Europeans are appropriating other cultures,they are appropriating the American one.

You say that wearing a kimono draws ooh's and aah's and conveys an appearance of wealth...try wearing Nike,Levi's etc,going to McDonalds and watching MTV in some places. ,but true.

I went to rural Czech republic recently and these young people couldn't stop talking about how happy they STILL are to be able to wear jeans.They are very happy in their own country and have no interest in colonising America,thank you very much.But they now wear jeans.

The time when "the white man" as you put it could just "grab" anything that took their fancy is fortunately over,and I don't think that this is what motivates people designing batik shirts and Moroccan slippers at all.And I don't think that the people in developing countries need protection from the fashion industry referring to them every few seasons or so.If anything,they probably sell more to tourists at this time.

I find your supposition to be a bit racist and patronizing,if I may say so,because not only "the white man" is interested in fashion and in following trends.As I said before,this is part of the general process of globalisation,ALL cultures are learning from and assimilating from one another and that is only a good thing as it promotes greater acceptance and understanding among people.

But then that's the way it is if you don't know what things are like in the rest of the world (especially the parts you feel are being "fetished (?!?)",which is something that is true of many Americans.I'm not necessarily saying you.I don't mean to be personal.But.

If people really want to object to the exploitation of other cultures for purposes of fashion,let us go back to taking it up for those sweat shops in Asia where 10 year olds manufacture your pricey garb for a pittance.There's something worth getting worked up about.

 

[oceanharlot]

hmm... as I said I wasnt just refering to fashion. it just pertains to the current trends in fashion. What I am saying is that Americans have a complex built into our heritage, where there is always a need for something new and better just beyond our reach, which is what drives us to look beyond our shores for that something that completes the hole in our psyche that is there because of our "lack of culture" (which I am not going to try to explain again...)

I think you are grabbing onto the idea of racism as a crutch, instead of looking at the situation objectively. I'm not saying that "white America" is on a rampage to go out and steal whatever they can from other countries, what I am saying however, is that there has always been a need in the US to go out and find something better than what is right at home. There is tons of literature about this trend, I'm defintely not the first to think about it.



The reason I brought this subject up is that there are so many cultures all over the world that have not only had aspects of their culture stereotypes and put into fashion, music, literature, politics, ect. and that this leads to a sort of paring down of their culture for the international market. For example, japanese or chinese writing tattoos. I will say that the great majority of people who get the word "love" tattooed on the small of their back do not know whether it is kanji or hanzi . They only care that it looks cool. Why does it look cool to them? Because the idea of something foreign brings up these engrained ideas in our head that going overseas brings ideas of exotic locals, adventure and luxury. So companies exploit this idea for consumers to gobble up and have a piece of it for themselves, even if they themselves cannot go, they can look like they did. Why do you think Pier 1 and Pottery Barn do so well? Low cost imported furniture. Furniture that (like on that epi of Friends) you could mistake something that was bought at Pier 1 for $300 bucks for an apothecary table from somewhere far far away. The wood is distressed mahogany from a torn down temple in Thailand, inlaid with rare ebony wood and mother of pearl gleaned from the sea... you get the idea.


It’s the same with the fashion world right now. We buy bamboo accessorized purses because it gives the purse an asian vibe, mixed with an Italian leather body and brushed gold hardware. The look of someone who can afford to globetrot to their hearts content. because that is what we want to appear.
These cultures have become a part of the consumer fetish. We buy buy buy buy buy what we do not have in ourselves in hopes that by others thinking we do in fact have it by owning it, that one day, maybe, we will.

 

[QuirkyCool]

So just as the western europeans that colonized the new land in hopes of finding a new understanding and promise of a better future, we as their propogated offspring have this desire within us to forever be exploring and reaching out into new territories. It is the white man's legacy, taking over and colonizing and exploiting others..

If you didn't mean that white America is the main driving force behind this whole "cultural colonizing frenzy" then I must have misunderstood this paragraph.

I do not need to use racism as a crutch,I am articulate enough to formulate my own ideas and opinions without it.I meant it purely in the context in which I used it and I still do.

I think that you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this matter.

 

[droogist]

oceanharlot, I think you're too quick to dismiss the possibility that people might appreciate these things on a purely aesthetic level. I don't believe that many of the kids who get their names tattooed in Japanese do so because it makes them appear more worldly. I think most of them think Japanese calligraphy looks cool because it does look cool; calligraphy is a legitimate art form, for eastern and western cultures alike. Same goes for ethnic or ethnic-inspired furniture. Most people don't much care what culture their Pier 1 table references, or whether someone might mistake it for a souvenir, they just want something that looks good and matches the drapes.

I do agree that Americans often feel compelled to fill a perceived cultural void, and often do so by acquiring possessions, but I believe that the we fetishize our own culture in equal measure with others'. Nostalgia, for example, can be perceived as a form of cultural fetish; it's a fixation on a narowly defined and idealized aspect of culture, in which the "big picture" gets lost.

 

[jennifer~]

Nostalgia, for example, can be perceived as a form of cultural fetish; it's a fixation on a narowly defined and idealized aspect of culture, in which the "big picture" gets lost.

I think that's kind of what I meant... or what I should have meant...

 

[Lilliana]

I have always thought that using other cultures traditional styles in fashion would be a very nice gesture of respect and appreciation of their beauty! It isn't new either, i.e. 18/19th century there was a huge china "trend" in europe and vice versa at the chinese court one imported 'european style' furniture and it also influenced fashion mixed with the traditional styles - it was a time of intense cultural exchange and I think one can only profit from it.

I somehow get the imrpession that p.c. is creating some kind of barrier between the "cultures", the only important thing imo is to show respect. I see the exchange as a much greater chance than risk. of course it changes cultures - but isn't a static culture more or less a dead culture?

but I see your point oceanharlot - nevertheless I think it is better to use african print in such a shallow way than to use only typical american garment, because in the use alone always also is the appreciation of the beauty.

It is the white man's legacy, taking over and colonizing and exploiting others..

I just wanted to point out that colonizing and exploiting isn't so much only a white mans thing as often said - just think about the osman empire etc etc white man was just the most successful one , but conquering and submitting different countires and cultures was for a very long time seen as a good goal by a whole lot of cultures.

 

[Spacemiu]

I feel the key is respect, I wear things from diffrent cultures becuase I'm very intrested in diffrent cultures,religions, ideas etc. But I feel if you are going to wear these things, particularly religious things, you need to have an understanding of where it comes from.

 

[oceanharlot]

good discussion

just to clarify- I appreciate things for purely aesthetic reasons all the time. what I was trying to do was question why something appeals aesthically to me. beauty is always subjective. so i question why something appeals to me specifically rather than just saying, oh its pretty, so i like it. thats too simplistic.

appreciation of beautiful things can be done, but perhaps possession of beautiful things is what I do not neccessarily agree with... aprreciation, understanding and respect are excellent things to keep in mind, without allowing oneself to get into a possessive state of mind.

 

[oceanharlot]

Nostalgia, for example, can be perceived as a form of cultural fetish; it's a fixation on a narowly defined and idealized aspect of culture, in which the "big picture" gets lost.

love this thought btw droogist. excellent tangent.

 

[ank9]

People have always been fascinated with everything even remotely "exotic", so that explains their interest to all things with an ethnic touch. Some might even think that wearing ethnic/ ethnic influenced clothes makes them more interesting, gives the impression that they're cultivated, well travelled etc. Clothes are an important status simbol. In my country, young people wear ethnic style clothes to convey the impression they're nonchalant and bohemian. Sadly for them, things don't necessarily work this way.

 

[pointup]

Ok, I'll do my best to chime in a little.. Although it may be a bit repetitive.

As Oceanharlot mentioned before, America is struggling to have culture. Everyone seems to assimilate as soon as they check in to the proverbial Ellis Island. .. I know nothing about my heritage and only two generations back from me lived in teepees.. And my grandpa is the first generation to live his whole life in america (from finland) on that side.. I can honestly say that I would consider myself American, because it's the only sort of "heritage" I know about. I see assimilation happening more and more, even with first generation immigrants I know. I think so many of us (especially young) Americans have no knowledge/respect of our own culture and therefore feel just fine ripping off somebody elses. .. Which is completely sad.

 

[MulletProof]

Coming from a culture where kimonos are worn (well rarely now adays) and I don't find it surprising that other cultures have found them fascinating and beautiful as well. Kimonos were once part of Japans everyday clothing, art, culture and beauty. and personally, I have no problem with people being inspired by them. I would like the people that are wearing them to be aware of where they came from though...
But, I do think people should draw the line when it comes to religious symbols and clothing. If I were a buddhist priest (just for an example) and I saw someone in some other country that was not a buddhist priest, which was of a totally different religion, and was wearing an ceremonial outfit (cutting various places off to make it more revealing) I would probably be offended.

Humans have always been inspired by each others culture. From that inspiration, I think its natural for human beings to mix and combine to make something new. I don't blame people for liking beautiful patterns from foreign countries... I just think its very important for people to know where its coming from, and from what context.

I can't answer your question directly I guess... but I do have the same questions about this whole issue.

well-put, breathe. i think it's such a fine line between fashionable fascination and offense. i used to argue A LOT about this particular subject with people until i found myself wearing traditional stuff from the middle east.
i dont have any problem with people wearing traditional clothes moderately except when it becomes some kind of party costume, that's where i think the line breaks and a whole culture is taken as a joke. it's one of the reasons why i dont enjoy the whole Frida Kahlo craze in developed nations..and why i dont even like her in the first place.

 

[Paullw]

I don't think there is anything wrong with wearing clothes or jewellery from other countries. The only bad thing is that most of these items aren't actually made in the countries that they're inspired by, so nothing gets back to the people whose culture it is. I believe that most of those traditional 'African' printed fabrics are actually made in Holland.

It would probably actually be cheaper if we were able to buy the goods from their place of origin, even with fair trade, than to buy them from a European label.

 

[MulletProof]

The only bad thing is that most of these items aren't actually made in the countries that they're inspired by, so nothing gets back to the people whose culture it is. I believe that most of those traditional 'African' printed fabrics are actually made in Holland.

It would probably actually be cheaper if we were able to buy the goods from their place of origin, even with fair trade, than to buy them from a European label.

exactly, what's worse is that here (for instance) when something gets trendy, a lot of european or americans labels come to Mexico trying to get hand-made patterns, silver jewelry, etc..and then sell it in Europe at a ridiculous price, which i dont care about, what bothers me is the 10 bucks they paid the indian..who's ignorant enough not to know the price his clothes worth.

 

[droogist]

I don't think there is anything wrong with wearing clothes or jewellery from other countries. The only bad thing is that most of these items aren't actually made in the countries that they're inspired by, so nothing gets back to the people whose culture it is. I believe that most of those traditional 'African' printed fabrics are actually made in Holland.

That's a very interesting phenomenon, and I think a good illustration of how sticky this topic can be. Batik prints actually originated in Indonesia, then a Dutch colony, and the Dutch introduced the fabrics to West Africa. Nowadays it's produced in lots of places, but the batik "Hermes" is indeed a company in the Netherlands. Here's a good article on it, if you want to read more: http://www.metropolismag.com/html/content_1200/ent.htm

 

[oceanharlot]

^there is an artist, Yinka Shonibare who uses these Dutch fabrics to make victorian gowns, and this fabric has this entire nostalgia vibe about it, because he is african and people think that he is making this anti-colonialist statment because they think he is usuaing african print fabrics, but what he is really doing is making a pun on on nostalgia in the long run... a comment on what we consider a cultural symbol and why, when it truly may not be really a good representation of that culture truly.

it really is terrible that things are made in the country of origin for cheap, then sold and resold and sold again upping the price and marketing until the item is 'worth' so much more, when the people whose culture should be benefiting the most, are in fact, benefiting the least...