Hedi Slimane at Saint Laurent - A Mistake?

[Not Plain Jane]

I think we are far too quick to believe that revenue justifies whatever.

I am not saying that "we" or certainly "I" feel that way.

I am saying that the "company" feels that way.

For them, it is about the bottom dollar.

That is the nature of the Fashion industry at large now. Sure there are always renegades. But as another thread we have here, under this umbrella, points out, our society has become more and more materialistic and greedy. It's evident in the Fashion industry by the constant churning out of collection after collection.

 

[Not Plain Jane]

Although, I don't think it was necessary to create an entirely new thread, as the same question and thoughts have been said countless times in both the seasonal threads and Hedi's own thread.

That was what I was saying. This thread will reconfirm what we already know. The vast majority of people at tFS already have made it loud and clear that they think Slimane was a mistake on his collection threads and on other threads. There are very few defenders of Slimane at this site. At least based on what i've read.

So I was trying to push the question: a mistake "how" exactly? How can the discussion be expanded?

That's all.

 

[fashionista-ta]

I am not saying that "we" or certainly "I" feel that way.

I am saying that the "company" feels that way.

For them, it is about the bottom dollar.

That is the nature of the Fashion industry at large now. Sure there are always renegades. But as another thread we have here, under this umbrella, points out, our society has become more and more materialistic and greedy. It's evident in the Fashion industry by the constant churning out of collection after collection.

Honestly, I don't know what it's about ... but ego is always a likely culprit.

What was the quote that was just posted about its being high risk to say "We can do better" because things were very profitable as is?

I would like someone at PPR to define 'better' for me.

Perhaps the execs feel that if they're not firing someone and creating 'change' that they're not doing anything.

 

[Not Plain Jane]

Maybe it's meaningless ego pumping; that's certainly a possibility. But are executives likely to risk a profitable business for the sake of ego? Possibly. But risky!

 

[haydn]

I don't think you can say that the clothes aren't selling because the sales associates aren't happy. Yes, I'm sure they have to find a new clientele to sell too, but Hedi's brought in a much broader fanbase.

And according to Kerings press release (http://www.kering.com/sites/default/files/kering_presentation_2013h1results_0.pdf) : "Increase in sales across all key categories – Outstanding performance of Leather Goods and RTW" with sales up 14.2%

I don't know why everyone has such a hate on for Hedi. Fashion is all about change. He certainly has a plan and a vision for Saint Laurent, and his execution and delivery is flawless. According to Pierre Berge "..it's exactly what needed to be done."

 

[fashionista-ta]

Maybe it's meaningless ego pumping; that's certainly a possibility. But are executives likely to risk a profitable business for the sake of ego? Possibly. But risky!

Well, they did, right? The business was profitable, and growing, and they made a very significant change. Perhaps it was a good decision; time I suppose will tell. I'm sure they had their reasons ... I would just like, when the big conglomerates fire some of the best and most talented womenswear designers in the world, for them to at least hire people of equal talent and skill.

 

[ogepma]

Very interesting insights here. @haydn, thanks for the link to the annual report. At first glance, it may disprove what I was told by the sales associates. However, when compared to the 40%+ increase (refer to @VogueDisciple93's post for the NYT interview insert) the brand experienced for the first half of 2012 (pre Hedi)compared to the 16.5% increase (post Hedi) it experienced for the first half of this year, it can be seen that the rate of increment seemed to have dropped significantly; this may explain why their targets were dropped. Sales may have increased but the pattern of increment seemed to have decreased. I wouldn't expect the brand to start to reach it's maturity stage especially when a new "star" creative director has been installed.

As @disco54 pointed out, there was a great emphasis on Hedi's celebrity status or popularity within the celebrity crowd even if he isn't a celeb himself. There seems to have been an unknown gamble that was played and this was overshadowed by an over-the-top sense of optimism based on his status especially with regards to womenswear. I am certainly not disputing that he has, at some point, been of great importance to fashion due to his contributions however, I don't feel what he contributed is timeless enough not to progress. It can be updated but I don't see him doing that.

With regards to his respect for the brands heritage, it's not being shown in an obvious way and I think that's may be too risky. I do not like literal translations of a house's past but lets take his grunge collection into consideration. As much as I despise it in almost every way, I could understand that he wanted it to be a rebellious collection echoing Mr Saint Laurent's rebellious nature in his early days. But as @zazie stated, the shock from it was different. I was shocked - just like most - that it was too nostalgic, disrespectful in its visual nature and so under designed that I felt and still feel that PPR management should have intervened. Now Hedi, in my opinion, could have proven himself as a true genius if he was able to translate grunge into something elegant and very true to the YSL spirit in every sense. I guess all this controversy increases the popularity of the brand but is it really worth it? I hope he embraces the more grown-up, elegant side of the brand. Let it be more targeted towards people who can actually afford it; towards its old customers.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I think what Dries did with grunge shows that it can be taken anywhere ... I think what you're pointing to was possible, but it would require significant talent.

 

[tangerine]

...My take on this is that PPR (Kerring) made an initial mistake by hiring Hedi, but this is one they have to live with for a while. It seemed to me that they relied mainly on his past glories and pre-existing customer base...

With all due respect, what else would they be relying on?

As far as I can see there are only two ways this can be considered a mistake;

1. It fails to make money
2. It doesn't meet someone's subjective expectations for the brand

We have various anecdotal evidence in this thread that seems to indicate that the brand is making money, but is possibly not growing as fast as PPR hoped. If PPR is not satisfied with making profits, but only with meeting their projected profit increases, then I can see them considering this hiring a mistake.

It's clear from every SLP-related thread on tFS that there are a number of vocal members who are tired of Hedi and his vision (if they ever liked him/it in the first place). Clearly, it is a mistake as far as this group is concerned. I think most of this group was against the appointment before they even saw the first collection; so it was a foregone conclusion that it was a mistake.

I agree with the people who say that he is better at menswear than women's. I probably like only about 15% of each collection. A lot of the rest of it looks gaudy and cheap. But I like Hedi's aesthetic in general, I like what he does. He does one thing and does it pretty well, IMO. And I am not losing money on it so to me, it's not a mistake.

Yves, while certainly controversial and divisive, was always there to make women beautiful. Hedi is too involved in himself and his boys to really care about what women want.

This made me laugh and generally struck me as true, but I wonder. Yves Saint Laurent shocked some people by putting women in pants and I don't doubt that he faced some of the same sorts of criticism. And there are clearly women who want what Hedi is putting out there.

The larger question for me is, is it really true that the gap between high fashion and high street has become so narrow?

Fashion is so ill right now....luxury brands are on the same level as high street brands. The product is essentially the exact same. And sometimes the quality and the fabrication isn't even all that different!! It's shameful. There is very little that separates Zara from a luxury house like Saint Laurent.

I have handled enough of the SLP product to say that it is definitely of higher quality than Zara's offerings, but that's begging the question. At the high end, there may be little to no innovation, as many of you are pointing out, and at the low end, the time required to mimic new designer offerings and put them on the shelves or in internet shops at high-street prices can be measured in days.

Has Fashion eaten itself?

 

[rougevalentino]

The larger question for me is, is it really true that the gap between high fashion and high street has become so narrow?

This is a good point! Hedi's influence is evident as you can walk into almost any high street store and see a piece of clothing clearly inspired by Saint Laurent. Of course, made from not nearly as high quality materials but the actual concept is there. Perhaps Hedi's vision appeals more to the masses than those who buy luxury fashion, and that Hedi's designs are too commercially ready and don't have that luxury factor you'd expect from the prices Saint Laurent retails at.

 

[Not Plain Jane]

Has Fashion eaten itself?

Well, most definitely.

Cannibalism is the post-modern condition!

 

[AD011620]

Just curious... Why do you say that? There are some pieces in the collection that are identical to some Yves did in the 60's and 70's.


You can like or not... I don't really like it, but that's one thing, and saying he disregards the heritage of Yves is another one.

I could see that in his first collection, I think. The one they used Anja Rubik for but then it went to Slimmanisque... I don't dislike him... And I like his 'boring' photography but I think he doesn't suit the brand. Saint Lauren was always about elegance whether it was minimalism or something else. When I look at his collections I can see very little of that! It's so dark and dull. I just find him EXTREMELY one dimensional and we could all agree that Yves was anything but that :-)

 

[tangerine]

^, ^^

Auto-cannibalism is the post-modern condition, and vulgarity is the new elegance!

Is Slimane's alleged departure from the heritage of YSL more heretical than Wang's work at Balenciaga?

 

[Zazie]

While I gradually came round to liking Pilati's designs, I hated his first couple of YSL collections, so perhaps I would like Slimane's too, if it starts to look LESS bohemian Rachel Zoe/grunge Courtne Love/pop Lady Gaga & MORE Parisienne in the cool Jane Birkin/boheme Loulou de la Falaise/fetish-androgyne Helmut Newton way.

I think Hedi Slimane is trying to tap into how Yves SL himself immersed in rock/bohemian culture for inspiration, but he seriously MISSED THE MARK because how can shallow LA denizens and fashion victims compare to the type of style icons Yves ran with?

I don't mind where he got his inspiration from as long as the results validate his choices, but they don't, for obvious reasons.

I just can't stand the kind of fashion people (eg.Skye Ferreira, Lady Gaga) he is inspired by. They don't have depth.

It's not so simple that YSL now looks like couture Zara, it's that it's simply not terribly interesting. I'd rather look at the designs of a smaller but much more up-to-date house.

 

[fashionista-ta]

I noticed in an interview of Hedi that he mentioned a certain percentage (40%??) of the clothes in the grunge show were made in the atelier.

To me this begged the question ... where was the rest of it made?? Does anyone know the answer?

 

[Phuel]

^^^ I took that as 40% of the pieces got the couture treatment and were lavished upon, as well as of couture-quality, while the remainder were factory-made...

And it's precisely this attitude why I still appreciate his aesthetic design, despite not really wanting to wear them. Visually, there's a plaintive, and exquisite quality that's always identifiable about Hedi's direction: Some may call it redundant, but I like that he stays with it, even if the music-scene themes change from collection to collection. I like the slow evolution of his designs and approach: There's more thought to his designs than just fashion, even if I may not be fan of the current state he's leading the label in, I still understand and appreciate it.

So, I don't think Hedi's wrong for YSL. I liked Pilati, but Hedi's given more to the YSL identity in these few collections than Pilati ever did in his tenure with the house.

 

[softgrey]

whilst trying on a $2,000.00 blouse from Saint Laurent, a button popped off and went flying across the fitting room...

...

really?!

 

[fashionista-ta]

I guess that wasn't one of the pieces made in the atelier.

 

[lelaid]

I noticed in an interview of Hedi that he mentioned a certain percentage (40%??) of the clothes in the grunge show were made in the atelier.

This also adds to the rumors of a couture revival. If these pieces are his idea of demi-couture, what would couture look like through his lens? I can only imagine what the little old ladies in the atelier were thinking as they were sewing sequins onto mullet hemmed baby doll dresses.

 

[tboy34]

I hope to god eventually YSL will end up with Ghesquire the house deserves FAR FAR better

Disco54 I was hoping the same thing. I'm a huge Saint Laurent fan and I have followed his work since I was a child in the 70's. I guess we can stop hoping as Ghesquire is at Vuitton now since Marc Jacobs has left.