Helmut Lang sold to Link Theory

[Arturo21]

This is wrong. All very wrong. Particularly, the fact of potentially having it's own stores struck me hard, for some reason.

Can you imagine how it will be to hear people holding Helmut Lang, Paper Denim & Cloth, and Diesel in the same esteem.

This is wrong.

 

[jadorelamode]

Baizilla..

I agree with you, I am huge on fabrics. That being said though, how many consumers are fashion knowledgable enough to actually buy quality fabric? I would love to say everyone, but facts are facts. While maybe the quality has been dwindling, Plokhov's image and reputation of his name and collections have risen. I have read numerous articles in the past year about the expectations of this label. I respect your view, I completely agree with it, but fashion is more of a business now, rather than a precious art.

 

[Arturo21]

^Plokhov isn't designing this collection, though.

 

[johnnyt]

Michael and Nicole Colovos (sp?) will be designing.

-j

 

[VivianL]

then what's up with all this nonsense about plokhov designing the collection

 

[JJohnson]

This is wrong. All very wrong. Particularly, the fact of potentially having it's own stores struck me hard, for some reason.

Can you imagine how it will be to hear people holding Helmut Lang, Paper Denim & Cloth, and Diesel in the same esteem.

This is wrong.

 

[johnnyt]

Habitual

WWD: http://www.wwd.com/related/article/106333

I don't expect them to last too long at Helmut Lang either.

-j

 

[aldn]

it would be great for alexandre plokhov to get a job...
the guy certainly needs some $$$
i think it makes sense actually...

it's basically the same customer that they both appeal to...

as far as helmut coming back..
i would love that...
but it doesn't look like jil sander is going back to her label...
so i don't know if helmut would go back either...

my big concern is the same one i had when raf took over jil sander...
he doesn't do womenswear...?!?!...

...

i think it's really hard to find someone who is good at both...

I agree with you. I like Cloak and Helmut Lang. I see it working.

 

[Baizilla]

Baizilla..

I agree with you, I am huge on fabrics. That being said though, how many consumers are fashion knowledgable enough to actually buy quality fabric? I would love to say everyone, but facts are facts. While maybe the quality has been dwindling, Plokhov's image and reputation of his name and collections have risen. I have read numerous articles in the past year about the expectations of this label. I respect your view, I completely agree with it, but fashion is more of a business now, rather than a precious art.

It has without a doubt risen... I am not going to argue with you on that.

But... Cloak is still considered a small and independent label, which is still quite unknown to the mainstream population, so their customers are mainly people who are knowledgable about the label and fashion in general, therefore they also have a well developed sense of quality. It is this kind of customers who will be loyal to the label and keep it running.

I'm not saying that there aren't some potential customers out there, who doesn't care about their quality and just want to buy into their image and reputation, but they are very few.. but perhaps on the rise? But for now, this type of customers are not able to keep this label running by themselves, because they might not be as loyal as the customers "in the know", since they are only buying into their image, they are probably more prone to being more capricious and shift image often.

Anyhow, Cloak has to go more "mainstream" and get a lot more attention in order to reach this type of customers.. to do this, they have to have an enormous financial backup, which only LVMH, Gucci Group, Prada Group etc. can give..

 

[tricotineacetat]

It has without a doubt risen... I am not going to argue with you on that.

But... Cloak is still considered a small and independent label, which is still quite unknown to the mainstream population, so their customers are mainly people who are knowledgable about the label and fashion in general, therefore they also have a well developed sense of quality. It is this kind of customers who will be loyal to the label and keep it running.

I'm not saying that there aren't some potential customers out there, who doesn't care about their quality and just want to buy into their image and reputation, but they are very few.. but perhaps on the rise? But for now, this type of customers are not able to keep this label running by themselves, because they might not be as loyal as the customers "in the know", since they are only buying into their image, they are probably more prone to being more capricious and shift image often.

Anyhow, Cloak has to go more "mainstream" and get a lot more attention in order to reach this type of customers.. to do this, they have to have an enormous financial backup, which only LVMH, Gucci Group, Prada Group etc. can give..

Unfortunately, those with a well-developed eye for quality, construction and fabric issues are often those that are buying the least in the shops...(my observation and that of a long-time friend of mine who is working at the Avenue Montaigne Dior Homme for almost 15 years now) It's fantastic that we have TFS as a platform to exchange and discuss about ideas, design and quality, but the percentage of buyers that are aware as us on fashion are TINY.

Also with that awareness in mind, you don't spend that much on clothing anymore, you don't necessarily change that much or buy a complete new wardrobe every season as other more trend-oriented consumers - it's a pragmatism that tells you, you already have that great coat, you have the perfect pair of jeans and so on, so why should they de-value after they are not current season anymore? Everything you happen to buy from that point on has to be THE item you always wanted and have fallen in love with, I think you can't oversaturate that every season as it's a highly personal judgemental.

I have had really mixed experiences with Helmut on the salesfloor. The collection never changed a lot under the man himself which is understandable - his black moleskin coats, skinny tuxedo pants, shirts and jeans (the key pieces that became his signature) have always been relevant staples but had never been "fashionable", rather continuous classics. You might have had an additional detail here and there, but the pieces themself remained the same throughout the years, in terms of cut, fabrics etc. - therein lies the dilemma though when you are doing in fashion, people are in the need of that "wow" factor if they are intending to pay the huge pricetag by arrival of goods in the shop, not at the end of season when the goods are discounted (and in Helmut's case, often still available on the salesfloor)... maybe that's the thing, he should have just kept the "classic" pieces in the storage for next season...

Dior Homme really is a good example of a brand that started with such a very elite point of view and that has now found it's destiny as a major, almost mainstream seller... it's no doubt at it's height of commercial turn-overs, albeit the difficult S/S 2006 collection. LVMH or any executives behind don't care for those that have fallen in love with all the handmade, couture-esque stuff that had been done in the first seasons; Handmade Lesage embroideries? Can we do that in dozens? No? Forget about it!

Don't get me wrong, it's the best thing you can achieve as a designer when your customers are faithful and trusting, but from a marketing point of view, and with a rather small, elitist circle of consumers you cannot maintain business. Maybe Cloak cannot produce the same quality now that they have more orders at hand, that they had to find a bigger production partner for the label... it's hard to find someone trustworthy in that regard that can continue in the same flawlessness.

 

[faust]

Unfortunately, those with a well-developed eye for quality, construction and fabric issues are often those that are buying the least in the shops...(my observation and that of a long-time friend of mine who is working at the Avenue Montaigne Dior Homme for almost 15 years now) It's fantastic that we have TFS as a platform to exchange and discuss about ideas, design and quality, but the percentage of buyers that are aware as us on fashion are TINY.

Also with that awareness in mind, you don't spend that much on clothing anymore, you don't necessarily change that much or buy a complete new wardrobe every season as other more trend-oriented consumers - it's a pragmatism that tells you, you already have that great coat, you have the perfect pair of jeans and so on, so why should they de-value after they are not current season anymore? Everything you happen to buy from that point on has to be THE item you always wanted and have fallen in love with, I think you can't oversaturate that every season as it's a highly personal judgemental.

I have had really mixed experiences with Helmut on the salesfloor. The collection never changed a lot under the man himself which is understandable - his black moleskin coats, skinny tuxedo pants, shirts and jeans (the key pieces that became his signature) have always been relevant staples but had never been "fashionable", rather continuous classics. You might have had an additional detail here and there, but the pieces themself remained the same throughout the years, in terms of cut, fabrics etc. - therein lies the dilemma though when you are doing in fashion, people are in the need of that "wow" factor if they are intending to pay the huge pricetag by arrival of goods in the shop, not at the end of season when the goods are discounted (and in Helmut's case, often still available on the salesfloor)... maybe that's the thing, he should have just kept the "classic" pieces in the storage for next season...

Dior Homme really is a good example of a brand that started with such a very elite point of view and that has now found it's destiny as a major, almost mainstream seller... it's no doubt at it's height of commercial turn-overs, albeit the difficult S/S 2006 collection. LVMH or any executives behind don't care for those that have fallen in love with all the handmade, couture-esque stuff that had been done in the first seasons; Handmade Lesage embroideries? Can we do that in dozens? No? Forget about it!

Don't get me wrong, it's the best thing you can achieve as a designer when your customers are faithful and trusting, but from a marketing point of view, and with a rather small, elitist circle of consumers you cannot maintain business. Maybe Cloak cannot produce the same quality now that they have more orders at hand, that they had to find a bigger production partner for the label... it's hard to find someone trustworthy in that regard that can continue in the same flawlessness.

Wow, beautifully said Couldn't agree more, excpet I am not sure on the last point. You'd think that with the economies of scale that larger production affords you, you'd be able to buy better fabrics cheaper. Maybe there is a time lag between the fame and the cash flows, but I surely hope we aren't being lowballed here...

Baizilla, as much as I would've loved to agree with you on the Cloak customer - I don't think it's the case. I think it is going the DH route, but on a much smaller scale. As you might've heard the label is now is one of choice among the trendy misshapes kids, etc. I've sold a lot of it on Ebay, and believe me - a lot of the customers aren't really looking for much beyond the skinny cut and the label. Having said that - I stil think he's doing a great job designwise - much better than most out there.

 

[Baizilla]

Ups.. I was going to edit the message I wrote.. now I deleted it

But to sum up, I saw it completely differently, because I've experienced the same small amount of customers showing their loyalty by buying into one label throughout a couple of years.. and therefore they were the sole reason to why my local multilabel shop kept on buying that label. However I realise what you say is right, because I'm only relating to my experience from where I live, whereas I should see it in a bigger context. You can't argue with 15 years of observation, can you?

Faust, seriously? There goes my impression of that label...

 

[faust]

Faust, seriously? There goes my impression of that label...

Oooh, I didn't want do to that, sorry Hopefully he will get his stuff together, and put out a quality product.

Anyway, I didn't mean to derail this thread, but I just have nothing more to say about Helmut/Theory thing. We've lamented enough. It's time to move on to other things. Personally, I think they only person who came out on top in this is Bertelli. I really don't see how they are going to make money on this...

 

[JJohnson]

Its sad that Barney's stopped carrying it I wish i had access to some Helmut

 

[softgrey]

Earlier this week, Link Theory Holdings has stated they have picked a duo, Michael and Nicole Colovos to act as Helmut Lang's new creative director. Their first collection is due out for Spring 2007. This duo is the same to have founded the label 'Habitual'. I am not sure how they will do at Lang, but I know for certain that it will not be the same.

I think it is horrible how these labels are driving out their creative directors. Business is business when it comes down to it, but if you have a man or woman who portrays and dictates what styles are to be worn, then you should definitely make things work. (i.e. Gucci Group - Tom Ford, Prada Group - Jil Sander and Helmut Lang)

As for Alexandre Plokhov, he has made his own name at Cloak. This is a line that his risen in the past few seasons and will be something to watch out for in the coming years.

they are setting up shop officially and have set up a showroom/press office in nyc again...
gearing up for the comeback of the label i guess...

 

[JJohnson]

they are setting up shop officially and have set up a showroom/press office in nyc again...
gearing up for the comeback of the label i guess...

hmmm will they show or will it just be showroom work?