Is Fashion Less Interesting?

Is fashion less interesting?


  • Total voters
    100
I thought of this thread when I was reading a reprint of an essay the late Bill Cunningham wrote for the NY Times in 2002. He said then,

Fashion is as vital and as interesting today as ever. I know what people with a more formal attitude mean when they say they’re horrified by what they see on the street. But fashion is doing its job. It’s mirroring exactly our times.

He may have (had) a point there. We are getting the fashion we deserve... or that we tolerate.

To quote a news show I used to listen to, "If you don't like the news, get out and make some of your own!"

Or, to put it another way, "after all, it was you and me". :wink:
 
We are getting the fashion we deserve... or that we tolerate.

To quote a news show I used to listen to, "If you don't like the news, get out and make some of your own!"

Or, to put it another way, "after all, it was you and me". :wink:

God, yes! Thanks for the epiphanic lightbulb moment. Personally speaking, this hits very close to home for me. Everytime when I log on to End, or even the basic Asos, for my online fashion fix, I always leave off with something mediorce or generic, like a Gant jumper or pastel sweat top. It's not so much reflective of my personal style as it is what's currently being pushed - from the indie boutiques to the commercial outlets. And so, when I look around all I see clusters of clones, which annoys me to no end. But I am inadvertently contributing to that structure with my safe salmon coloured sweat top and longline tee, and ultimately you are right. If we are going to weep and wail over dull campaigns and the like, doesn't the movement start with our individual lifestyle choices and environment? What are we doing to make fashion interesting, or rather, to shift culture? Fashion, just like theatre or film, derives it's inspiration, it's zest, from culture, the world it inhabits. The 50's for me was probably the worst decade in the 20th century. All that oppression and codes! And when you look at the fashion of that era, it actually aligns very much with that mood. So instead of just saying 'oh well, it's the times we live in', we should maybe try a personalised reactionary approach against this slump.

Another impact, something I've not bothered to regard until a member on here highlighted this, is actually education. Education plays such an integral part of how lots of different mediums are communicated. So what to do when an overwhelming percentage of people armed with buying power are still lacking in education? That's a curveball which I think adds to the monotony and inoffensiveness of fashion today.
And so you'll find the artist spending more time pondering how his collection will be received, who will be offended, will it appeal to the Middle Eastern trophy wife and the indie Berliner, will the sales meet the suits' spreadsheet requirements, than just going with it.

The latest Calvin Klein campaign is a perfect representation of fashion today. ALL OVER THE PLACE!
 
It never took hundreds of years for style shifts to occur. Most clothing is much less practical nowadays, as most people don't do (heavy) manual labor anymore, which has resulted in a "emancipation" of the clothing of the masses. But "casual" clothing that served no other purpose than to differentiate one individual from the other (through the use of stylistic differences, quality etc) has been around since.. a long time really.

There are theories that the current fashion system, with waves of trends was born around 1400 or a little earlier, with the influx of "exotic", "foreign" textiles from the Levant that increasingly flooded in during the aftermath of the Crusades (mind you, Middle Eastern textiles and clothing were already highly sought after before that period).

Levantine textiles were superior to those of Europe at the time and many a booty consisted of cloth and clothing. When you look at European painting in the aftermath you can sometimes see Mary or other people wearing robes with pseudo-Kufic (fake Arabic) inscriptions. It was considered a marker of clothing of superb quality. One of the earliest examples of cultural appropriation :D

What bothers me about fashion nowadays that quality is not the main objective to imitate items. It is this false sense of political awareness. Like kuffiyehs and bandana's. Or the trend of ripped jeans.


Man I love fashion theory.

Could you please elaborate on this?
 
I thought of this thread when I was reading a reprint of an essay the late Bill Cunningham wrote for the NY Times in 2002. He said then,



He may have (had) a point there. We are getting the fashion we deserve... or that we tolerate.

To quote a news show I used to listen to, "If you don't like the news, get out and make some of your own!"

Or, to put it another way, "after all, it was you and me". :wink:
This is probably the most dead-on and concise way of describing the current fashion climate -- and fashion as a whole -- that I've read. And Bill, may he rest in peace, was 100% correct.

I think we're really in a place where fashion is, by and large, followed by people who don't actually like fashion very much or understand it very much, if at all. It's something I've found myself wondering about to myself when fashion month comes around and I inevitably keep up with the commentary here on tFS. Inevitably there's a lot of hyperbole thrown around decrying a lot of stuff as the most tacky, offensively ugly, sl*tty, tasteless, irrelevant ever to walk a runway. Granted, fashion and the people who follow it would probably cease to exist without hyperbole, but when I look at the collections which garner that sort of response -- let's take the newest Saint Laurent collection by Anthony Vaccarello as an example -- I'm usually more shocked by the seemingly extreme reactions some people have than I am by any of the apparently offensive clothes that we've all just looked at. Reading commentary on collections like Versace, or Fausto Puglisi, or Marc Jacobs just reaffirms that for me, that people are apparently scandalized by something which is downright tame compared to many of the things that I've seen, and re-seen, and seen yet again.

One of the things which stuck out in the Saint Laurent discussion was the amount of clothes on display which were, for the runway at least, designed to expose the wearer's breast to some degree, the most obvious example being a leather dress on Binx Walton which was folded down on one side to show her glitter-covered nipple. The reactions were basically one of two things: either outrage and disgust at such a flagrantly offensive shock tactic, or (as was the case for me and others who seem to know their fashion history) a sort of mental shrug of "eh, nothing I haven't seen done before in more creative ways". It left me wondering if the people complaining about how crass it was had any idea that bare breasts on a fashion runway aren't new, or shocking, or even particularly vulgar given how hard some people have been fighting against the public stigma around women's nipples. It also left me wondering how those people would've reacted to, say, Tom Ford's own collection for YSL where some model's nipples were painted purple and deliberately exposed in sheer tops or clothes which were deliberately falling off, or Rei Kawakubo's collection that basically amounted to nothing but skirts and hats as every single models' breasts were barely covered in an extremely sheer veil of tulle that did nothing to conceal them, or an old Dior collection by Galliano where the tops of dresses were slashed in half to reveal one breast as an homage to classical images of female goddesses and warriors in Greek and Roman sculpture. Hell, jumping off of the runway and into celebrity world for a minute, you can even look to the time that Lil Kim wore a pastie on one boob to the VMA's and Diana Ross felt it up on live television -- shocking by 1999 standards, and, apparently, shocking by 2016 standards too.

I'm not really saying that any of those instances were or should have been shocking either, but given that they all happened well over a decade ago, and given all of the relatively recent attention paid to such socially progressive ideals as Free The Nipple, should that sort of thing really offend anyone today, and would it if they understood the long history of such a thing in high fashion? I'd actually venture to say that back when those collections I cited were shown (which just made me sound like a wizened elder starting a story with "you know in my day...", oy :doh:) were less disruptive to the followers of fashion than they would be if they were each shown today, and I for one find that both incredibly indicative of the ultimately sheltered, conservative times we're living in where it seems like only lip service is paid to being daring or bucking convention, and insanely disturbing because, let's face it, for all of the progress society has apparently made, for all of the loosening social mores we've apparently embraced, if all it takes to startle even ONE person who follows fashion with any sort of enthusiasm is a short black dress and a glitter covered nipple, then we've clearly backtracked. If Marc Jacobs' rainbow colored faux dreds can enrage people, I can only imagine what sort of reaction something like Gaultier's Hasidic collection or Galliano's Masai couture collection would garner today. If Donatella Versace's current work for Versace or Jeremy Scott's Moschino output can be viewed as the ultimate in tacky, sl*tty, unforgivably ugly fashion, what the hell would people today think of Gianni and Franco's designs, being that they were infinitely more bombastic, ornate and boundary pushing?

If it sounds like I'm devaluing people's opinions -- and I suppose that, to a point, I am -- what I'm really trying to get at in my own long-winded and rambling way is that fashion right now, from runways to magazines to what's sold in stores, points to the fact that we're not living in a time where anything that may ruffle feathers or offend people's often square sensibilities is just not accepted. We're living in a time where people are actually making huge amounts of money by dressing exactly like each other and taking exactly the same types of pictures as each other to post on Instagram. Look at the people who garner thousands of likes and millions of followers -- none of them actually break outside of the box. None of them post anything that a huge swathe of people won't necessarily understand. Even an idiot who can't properly pronounce Givenchy will be able to understand a bomber jacket, ripped jeans, Dior sunglasses and Yeezy sneakers. As much as I can't stand him and think that he got his start by having more money than style, BryanBoy (back in the day) at least did something off-kilter by carrying women's handbags and wearing women's pieces on occasion. The fashion bloggers and influencers of today wouldn't dare. Celebrity stylists and image makers would sooner quit than dress their clients in fashion that could possibly be mocked by Middle America. Even Lady Gaga, who started the new decade by dressing as a deliberately theatrical, unrelentingly high fashion and high concept alien being the likes of which MTV hadn't seen since, arguably, Marilyn Manson, has toned down her look considerably, and while I'm sure part of it is a creative choice for her, you cannot tell me that part of it isn't because oddness, whimsy, gaudiness and glamour hasn't gone completely out of fashion.

We absolutely have the fashion that we deserve as a society right now, except I'd argue that the people who really love fashion, who obsessively chronicle its every move, who get a jolt of excitement out of watching clothes they can't afford, wouldn't fit into or even have someplace to wear parade down a runway, have had very little to do with it. Sadly, because of factors that didn't really exist as little as five years ago, I don't know that the pendulum will ever really swing back into the direction I think many of us hope it will, not as long as there are people who find a glittery nipple shocking or candy colored dreadlocks offensive publicly sharing their opinions.
 
We absolutely have the fashion that we deserve as a society right now, except I'd argue that the people who really love fashion, who obsessively chronicle its every move, who get a jolt of excitement out of watching clothes they can't afford, wouldn't fit into or even have someplace to wear parade down a runway, have had very little to do with it. Sadly, because of factors that didn't really exist as little as five years ago, I don't know that the pendulum will ever really swing back into the direction I think many of us hope it will, not as long as there are people who find a glittery nipple shocking or candy colored dreadlocks offensive publicly sharing their opinions.

With every passing season I've become more worried about this too. The kind of Capital F Fashion that we love has in one form or another entered the public consciousness, and maybe we are just suffering the inadvertent consequences. Perhaps it's out of naivety that everyone figured fashion would remain uncompromising, even as became easier to access.

I haven't been following fashion for long, so I (sadly) don't have the knowledge or experience to give a good solution.

Maybe the pendulum just has to fall off and crash into something wildly new all together.
 
Spike - you are absolutely correct and it's been something I've been feeling for quite some time...and I only sense it getting worse.

The Bill Cunningham quote is SPOT ON. The era of political correctness we live in is suffocating any and all creativity. It's abominable.

Social media has destroyed creativity writ large. Period. How? By giving the populous a platform to not only voice their (oftentimes uniformed and unintelligent) opinions but a platform that validates and takes into consideration that very opinion. It's brutal. The recent Marc Jacobs rainbow dreadlocks fiasco is a key example. There IS no issue there. None. The backlash is absolutely ludicrous and it was clear that those getting "triggered" had no clue or care to think twice about the context of not only the hair within the collection itself, but also no clue or care to think twice about Marc the man and his career-long intentions. It pained me to witness the backlash and what's worse is that the media entertained the backlash...there should have NEVER been a single article written about the fiasco since there is no issue to begin with and simply by writing these articles (in "reputable" publications like The NY Times, no less), we are collectively validating the masses misguided, midirected, misinformed and miserable opinions.

And the problem with that is simple - to create anything worthwhile in fashion (or film, or music, or art, etc), the creator must remain focused, single minded and true to their own voice. They must take risks. They must push buttons and boundaries. They must ask questions. They must challenge the status quo. That takes incredible determination and incredible bravery to undertake that process and then publicly present their work. Even the most established and illustrious designers are still being incredibly vulnerable by presenting their work - because essentially, their work IS them. You're exposing intimate parts of yourself and your psyche. And unfortunately - we live in a hostile time where even the most innocuous design or reference or casting decision or styling choice can illicit the most violent, accusatory and damaging reaction from the populous. We've essentially created an environment in which creatives of any practices are not free to expose themselves. That's why we have such crappy fashion, crappy movies and crappy music.

Furthermore - giving value to the opinions of the populous also has damaged creativity as a whole in that as a creator, as I just mentioned, one has to be incredibly focused and in touch with themselves. You essentially have to tune out the noise of others to find moments of pure inspiration within yourself. But at this point with the populous having a platform to which their uniformed opinions and tastes and spending habits are not only validated, designers and creators are expected to create with the populous in mind - appease them, coddle them, walk on eggshells for them, cater to them, consider their likes and dislikes, etc. And the minute you dilute your conviction as a creator with the needs of the masses you have essentially sold your soul.

Those who think that being a Social Justice Warrior online or in real life - those who are easily "triggered" or who find everything "problematic" - need to take a long hard look within themselves and realize the effect their behavior is having. You're creating a culture in which provocative work is not allowed. And you must realize that within the context of fashion - you are robbing us all of the sublime. Could Alexander McQueen have created his body of work verbatim in 2016? He would have been crucified on Twitter and Instagram - and that's a fact. You cannot police people's creativity and then expect there to be anything worthwhile.

I hate it all and it hurts me to witness this behavior. It's crushing and disheartening to see people blindly masquerade as progressive when in reality they have essentially stripped us all of our rights of freedom of expression and freedom or speech - our very most important rights...and the very rights that actually bring about real progress. Limiting people only sets us back.
 
^ Honestly dior, you've said it way more eloquently than I could've in my stream of consciousness/ayahuasca-induced rambling.

As much as I enjoy taking part in it to some degree, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't feel as though social media has essentially created, or contributed to the creation of, a culture of individuals who are at once incapable of having to deal with seeing, hearing, reading or acknowledging the validity of anything which may bother them, offend them, disturb their worldview or simply ruffle their feathers while simultaneously feeling absolutely no guilt or shame about being unrelentingly, ruthlessly vitriolic towards people, places and things which they don't like or agree with thanks to the safe distance provided by talking through a touch screen. Lord knows that most of what's said on Facebook, or Insta, or anything really would never be said in person because, let's face it, most people don't have the nerve to knock something or someone when it's staring them right in the face. Throwing that focus onto fashion specifically, and it's following of people, you've got a large portion of self-titled fashion experts loudly weighing in on something, often negatively, which they really don't have enough of a grasp on to fully critique, and which they often don't even have the respect for to critique thoughtfully. It's fits in perfectly though with what it takes to get what is ultimately the most important thing; a like. At the end of the day a snarky zinger that s**ts all over a designer's work is bound to get more likes than an earnest breakdown of why you think it's not their best -- partly because most people won't have the patience to read a critical breakdown, partly because it's not as entertaining, and partly because it'll fly over the heads of most of those who view it. I suppose it's only natural that the designers begin to take that into account. Does it matter whether or not their collection is a clever interpretation of some incredible inspiration that incorporates all sorts of beautiful, uncommon techniques when all it takes is a thoughtless comment from someone who may or may not even get what it is they're looking at to undermine months of careful work? I'm not saying that crap doesn't exist, and I'm not saying that I'm immune to the charms of carefully thrown shade, but it's almost as if the punchline (the "funny" insults, the shade, the negativity) matters more than the setup (the thing being insulted, shaded or negated) these days.

I mean c'mon, look at how often people on here throw around insults about the quality of clothes, things like fit, fabric, cut, finish and all of that, that they can only see in a medium-res image on a flat screen from the front only while a model was moving. Sure, every so often you can actually see the shoddiness of the clothing in a picture, but it's the exception rather than the rule, although you'd never know it given how often that sort of "expertise" pops up in collection threads. You can't tell me that it's not due in part to the fact that people just love to hate.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

New Posts

Forum Statistics

Threads
212,702
Messages
15,196,693
Members
86,686
Latest member
lmacshap
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"
<-- Admiral -->