Is there too much focus on Western fashion?

[Whitelinen]

I think she means that even though there are good Western designers, there are superb talents in other parts of the world that go unnoticed/not noticed as much because the focus is always placed in the Western world.

That's what I meant I don't think all talent is gone from the Western world, but there's much more talent showing in the smaller fashion weeks around the globe. It annoys me how these smaller fashion weeks don't get much exposure. The only way for the brands to get any recognition outside their own country is to move their collection to Paris/London/Milan/NYC. Fashion is not moving anywhere, as the Western "fashion world" is too dominant.

 

[Bidwell]

Fashion weeks in places other than the major fashion cities is a VERY recent phenomenon and most are still in the development phase as are, to be honest, a lot of the designers who are cutting their teeth for the first time (or at least showing a runway presentation) often I think with mixed results.
The major capitals serve their purpose in showing diverse talent on one platform; otherwise it would be too dispersive.
Asia, particularly China, is only coming into it's own now, stylistically as till now it was primarily seen only in terms of production. This takes time.
The birthplace of fashion took place in Western Europe and has a historical tradition dating back to the 14th Century.

 

[zamb]

The birthplace of fashion took place in Western Europe and has a historical tradition dating back to the 14th Century.

Oh Yea?
what is the source of such statements?

 

[maau]

i understand what u mean by westernized fashion but i also can't agree with you: fashion is certainly a taste or preference, while there's some people who like european fashion, there's also people who like asian and other culturalized fashion, It's just happened that today where the major markets of fashion are they're at either paris, milan, london, or new york, where little attention is given to tokyo. Can you say it's not fair? definitely, but weren't the europeans the ones to really make the once vague term "fashion" to become an entity of its own? i personally love european fashion and i think it's more of an achieved status that cannot be broken down, even i am an asian by birth and i also would like to make asian fashion known to the world one day. what i want to say is, let just look at some examples, today some of the rising stars many of them are asians: derek lam, philip lim, peter som, doo ri chung, hussein chalayan and some already established designers like junya wantanabe and others, not to mention the ones who are really talented and who work in major fashion houses who are yet to be known. They all have something common in them: what they've studied or what they've prefer to apply their expertise to are european fashion. it's perhaps there's little or no known asian fashions/styles in existance, but who can you blame for this if there were no people in asia who were willing to make clothes? what i see is that there were and there are now many european designers who are willing to explore different aspects of fashion could really be successful in this industry, they've also used elements of asian culture to make their statements, so i don't think there's a defined boundary as to say western or asian fashion, only that there were predominantly european designers to really begin the whole "fashion" thing

 

[Whitelinen]

I don't agree with that it was the Europeans who discovered fashion, it's just another try for the "white men" to think they are some kind of Gods. Every culture has its fashion. The first human who thought about what the bananaleaf he/she is wearing looked was the one who discovered fashion. By those terms I believe fashion was discovered in Africa.

It is true that probably the major fashion weeks were founded here first. I think it's safe to say that Paris fashion week has a lot more history than Tokyo fashion week. It's ok to take time to develop, but will these fashion weeks ever get the same status? The most talented designers are snatched to Europe. If, in the future, we will see more focus on other fashion weeks than the incredibly overrated and dull NYC fashion week, then I think it's all right. But is fashion going to take this way?

Fashion is pretty much stuck in a rut, idea-wise. It's all about speedy recycling now. And why is that? Because those ideas and trends have more history behind them. They are more reliable sellers as they have already been in. If fashion is not willing to take risks and move on, but instead wants to live in the past, I don't think things are going to change.

 

[Scott]

well,i don't think it's really about focusing solely on western fashion. you got to remember,Paris and London are perhaps the most International of the fashion weeks. everybody from every part of europe and the rest of the world goes there. you can say the same thing about designers in antwerp,vienna or moscow....they all now have their own events but they still are forced to go to those larger cities because of the very fact that this is where the press and buyers are.

and i don't care where you do your show,if you're smaller,you still won't get that much recognition.

 

[softgrey]

as i live in the west...
i see and read western media for the most part...
i don't know what the rest of the world is writing about really...

but maybe they are the ones who are focusing too much on western fashion...???

seems like western clothing (especially luxury labels) are HUGELY popular in most parts of asia...
so who's fault is that really?

and why do people really need to be recognized by the western world?
is it an ego thing?
i would think that being recognized in the place you are from is a HUGE accomplishment in and of itself...

but you know-- if you are an actor you must go to a major city to get work...
so it's the same basic principal...
you go where the work is...
you don't sit in your living room and expect people to come knocking on your door---
you go to every door there is and knock on it until finally someone lets you in!!...

it's really up to EACH designer INDIVIDUALLY to get out there and make it happen for themselves in any way they can...regardless of where they are from..

just like in every other field...

 

[stilettogirl84]

The birthplace of fashion took place in Western Europe and has a historical tradition dating back to the 14th Century.

but of course the chinese had their own fashions before this, as well as the egyyptians and the greeks. Every major civilization has it's fashions

The fact that the western world has perhaps been dominant since the 14th century is the reason that it's fashions are what the world recognises right now. You have a very short term perspective unless you consider the fact that there were civilizations before europe came to be, and there will likely be something else in the future centuries to come.

 

[ultramarine]

I christen this thread as Hot topic of the week! Yay!

Oh .. and for a moment JFW I thought twas like Johannesburgh fashion week instead of Japan ...

 

[zamb]

but of course the chinese had their own fashions before this, as well as the egyyptians and the greeks. Every major civilization has it's fashions.

I do not understand the use of the word "fashion" here, Is Fashion just the dress code/ style of Dress of a given society/civilization or is it something else?.........................

 

[zamb]

I don't agree with that it was the Europeans who discovered fashion, it's just another try for the "white men" to think they are some kind of Gods

.

The first human who thought about what the banana leaf he/she is wearing looked was the one who discovered fashion. By those terms I believe fashion was discovered in Africa.

The most talented designers are snatched to Europe.

?


I am interested in seeing you elaborate a bit more on the above statements...............

 

[Whitelinen]

Zamb, if clothes that are worn for other reasons than practicality = fashion, then the first time humans started to be interested in how the clothing they wore looked like (instead of just caring about how well it covered them) would be the birth of fashion. That is centuries and centuries ago, and it was not started in Europe. Therefore fashion was not founded/discovered in Europe.

There's a talented designer(s) in for example Tokyo (take LIMI feu for example). When they want to get more recognition, they need to leave their country. Until they come to Europe, the Western world does not acknowledge them very well, but I can be quite sure everyone's going to be crazy about LIMI feu when it comes to Paris. Why couldn't we here in the Western part of world sometimes look outside our borders to another cultures and countries? What is so superior about the Western fashion world? This does apply to everything, not only fashion, this syndrome of "Westerm men" being somehow higher than others, but as we are here to discuss fashion we should keep the discussion at that level.

 

[softgrey]

me too zam..

SNATCHED???......

i am imagining some fashion mafia---grabbing designers out of their beds at night...blindfolding them....and hustling them off to another country to design for ....*horror of all horrors*...


...the 'white man'...

...



...

 

[Whitelinen]

Ok, I did use strong words, but I don't think this can be denied White men have done too many bad things

 

[MulletProof]

I have to agree with Softgrey's post (previous to the last one)...

I don't really believe there's such a thing as "too much focus", it's not neccesarily focus as it is a field of work and also, prestige, I'm sure Sao Paolo gets a lot more coverage in Brazil than say, London FW, it's just something they can relate to or are related to already in one way or another (which applies equally to London and why they might not cover SPFW as much as Brazil does).. if it gets enough coverage in their respective media, why would they need to sweep up the newspapers in Europe or the US?, maybe the "too much focus" is actually a selfish statement when you realise there is focus in their countries and they're not starving for Western media attention.

on the other hand, there is the prestige of western fashion, which is entirely different than simple focus and which might be the reason why non-westerns have to move over there in order to get the economical reassurance only a european label can give you even in your place of origin... anywhere you go, they might not know what's in for Gucci F/W 07.08 (due to lack of coverage!) but they do know what Gucci means and if you give someone the option to choose Gucci over say, Ronaldo Fraga or Lyricism, the average customer is going to pick the former.. you're backed up by a reputation the west has invested many years to build.. whereas the concept of fashion week is still relatively new in the rest of the world.. the organisation the West has came up with in the field of fashion (as well as many areas) cannot be compared yet with those in recent cities that have gathered enough people to do their fashion events and are only sponsored by companies while Paris for instance, gets a percentage from the government.. something unthinkable in cities like Sao Paolo or Johannesburg where the government has more important things to be concerned about and spend their money on than simple fashion or artistic movements.. it'd be good to believe in Fidel Castro's words and say a revolution can only be ideological (by education, fashion being a part of it) but it doesn't really apply to capitalist nations.. unless they see evident profit like in Parisian fashion and not just an utopian project like say, Mexico City FW.
it's only a matter of time in my opinion.. not season time, but years, to establish a system not just of quality work but $$, education.. and faith in your local creators, which is what's missing in a lot of Asian, African and Latin American countries.

 

[laika]

Zamb, if clothes that are worn for other reasons than practicality = fashion, then the first time humans started to be interested in how the clothing they wore looked like (instead of just caring about how well it covered them) would be the birth of fashion. That is centuries and centuries ago, and it was not started in Europe. Therefore fashion was not founded/discovered in Europe.

I don't think this is quite right....
Fashion isn't simply equivalent to non-functional ornamentation of the body. If that were true, then tattoos and piercing would also have to be considered fashion. But tattoos and piercings are permanent; and what you are talking about--the system of fashion that involves seasonal runway shows, trend forecasters, buyers, consumers, etc.--is driven by change, speed, and growth (capitalism), etc. It's a distinctly modern and european invention; and I don't think it should be imposed on the traditional practices of other cultures.

That said, the fashion system, like any other, is certainly full of inequalities and prejudices. Figuring those out and attacking them would make a better basis for critique, imo.

 

[zamb]

i have much to say..........
we are entering into a territory/domain that is ripe for discussion, because now we are seeing fashion (whatever that means, like philosophy) in a wider context, also we are seeing biases, prejudices and world views being discussed, which is some-thing(s) that i think we really need to discuss

Bias in regards to the "origin of a Given talent"
History/ culture etc.
"the White Man playing God" (Racism in Fashion ? )
How do we view things in regards to our own Colour /ethnicity etc.
Things originating in Africa etc.............

These are subjects and issues that are in some ways broader than fashion.
i will speak more and add my "two cents" later

They dont pay me here at Crye to post on TFS.

Love to you all
talk tonite, got to solve a technical problem in a pattern for the company
Talk later
Zamb

 

[Couture_Tribe]

Responding to the topic post, I would say, yes, white men are trying to play god in fashion. They do not want a change, they want to remain their status, but they won't, because Ecnomically, Asia is rising, ergo, they will take over the world one day eventually. Regarding non-white designers, like many have mentioned before, since the western culture have dominated fashion, they are the majority; as minority, you have to knock on the doors to be accepted. I am also very certain that one day this will change, fashion will become very globalized as the world became more globalized.

 

[MUXU]

i think it has to do with just having a central place to exhibit the clothes. historically speaking...paris has been the known for it's trend generating powers. it's gonna take a while before the focus moves elsewhere.

i have to agree with Lena. even though there are a good percentage of people who really look out for talents, alot of times..the talents are just too extreme for most average joes and janes. so the buyers and editors wont even bother.
and fashion goes hand in hand with pop culture. if the country have a low profile in mass pop culture, the fashion there doesnt get much chance to promote their stuff. without promotion, people wont know the talent that lives there.
i say...it takes time.
even for the designers in developing countries like china. i was looking at some shows from shanghai fashion week from a couple seasons ago. some designers you know have talent, some others...not so much. but even for the talented ones, there was something missing from their clothes. but im sure with time, their collections will be more refined and definite. and hopefully by then, the FW will be more definite as well

 

[ilaughead]

even for the designers in developing countries like china. i was looking at some shows from shanghai fashion week from a couple seasons ago. some designers you know have talent, some others...not so much. but even for the talented ones, there was something missing from their clothes. but im sure with time, their collections will be more refined and definite. and hopefully by then, the FW will be more definite as well

You're completely right. I remember someone posting a collection from a designer in China that was being sold in a certain department store. (I don't remember any of the details) There was a big hoopla about it and lots of press, but I do remember that it looked incredibly derivitive and very H&M/Forever 21. I don't mean to say that all of Chinese designers are like this one, but it would be nice if the really good Chinese designers were promoted in the West, not just the commercial ones.

But 'commercial' is big in Asia. I think that changing that is one wall to knock down before many Asian designers will make it big.

(I really only have a clue of what is going on in the luxury business in Asia, so I didn't want to say anything about South America, Africa, etc.)