Marc Jacobs S/S 2023 New York

[RaisinBoy]

ugh... so boring and dated.

 

[jeanclaude]

White-label avant-garde...

 

[Deleted member 7575]

He really needs to stop trying to make those shoes happen.

 

[FiveEasyPieces]

I know everyone who is relevant was probably sitting front row, but I find it so odd that the images taken to present the collection to a wider audience online were taken in profile.

 

[Delleone]

No, but it got me thinking that Marc's drive to create is definitely informed by looking at his peers, he's not shy to admit his occasional fandom of other designers and you can certainly see how that in turn influenced the direction he's headed with his own label at the time.

Like I said, I give him that, he manages to make it into something of his own, but it's part of the reason why it's at times been hard to pinpoint a signature for his design.

I must say that I agree, especially with his reverence for Rei Kawakubo and Miuccia Prada — there’s always a whiff of either or both in his work, and in a positive way, I feel. More recently, also Demna’s take on haute streetwear is a big influence on his work. He is truly one of fashion’s greatest mix masters, up there with John Galliano, taking a myriad of references and warping them into his own fantastical mix. His attention to detail and nuance is obsessive.

 

[Frida]

 

[Phuel]

I must say that for me, for all the extravaganza, the best moments of this collection are the simpler silhouettes. The twin-set, the peacoat with the skirt, the sweater with the skirt, the long, lean more commercial coats. It’s more grounded and more Marc Jacobs than all the homage around…

Absolutely.

He’s doing Comme and Westwood better than Rei and Viv has been these last several years, frankly. But why he seems to have completely abandoned what made him a unique fashion voice with the blueblood preppies that ran with the Warhol weirdos of his supreme A/W 2020 offering, and instead, have (d)evolved into these tributary showpieces that are nothing more than nice editorial fodder, is such a display of some frustrated identity-crisis. That, and this sort of designs are such a huge disconnect from the midrange consumer bags that the brand is hustling.

You know, having strayed so far from his signature, it’s at once admirable and and such a shame. Admirable in that I get it: Bold designers/brands like Gaultier/Comme/McQueen were whatI admired about fashion, but it's the subtlety of Helmut Lang/Prada/Tom Ford that I was attracted to and wanted to wear. I get the impression that Marc is living out his fantasy of the ones he admired now that he’s made rich and famous by copying the designers that he was attracted to. And a shame in that he’s lost, even rejected a lot of that American charm that was always at the heart of his brand.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Good collection from Marc even if his work doesn’t bring any type of excitement or anything really to me anymore…

He is the greatest DJ of High Fashion. I see a lot of Junya Watanabe and of course Westwood…
There are some great pieces like the cargo skirts, the polka dots pieces, the knitwear and the patchwork…It’s a lot of great things but as it’s very silhouette and editorial oriented, I wish there was something really striking if it makes sense.

The styling is a bit expected…

I must say that for me, for all the extravaganza, the best moments of this collection are the simpler silhouettes. The twin-set, the peacoat with the skirt, the sweater with the skirt, the long, lean more commercial coats. It’s more grounded and more Marc Jacobs than all the homage around…

I would really love for him to do Dior. I really have a problem with this of clothes that exist in a bubble outside of Couture.
Is this still a Bergdorf exclusive? Beyond the editorial/marketing purpose, does this have any type of reality?

I agree verbatim.

 

[Lola701]

Absolutely.

He’s doing Comme and Westwood better than Rei and Viv has been these last several years, frankly. But why he seems to have completely abandoned what made him a unique fashion voice with the blueblood preppies that ran with the Warhol weirdos of his supreme A/W 2020 offering, and instead, have (d)evolved into these tributary showpieces that are nothing more than nice editorial fodder, is such a display of some frustrated identity-crisis. That, and this sort of designs are such a huge disconnect from the midrange consumer bags that the brand is hustling.

You know, having strayed so far from his signature, it’s at once admirable and and such a shame. Admirable in that I get it: Bold designers/brands like Gaultier/Comme/McQueen were whatI admired about fashion, but it's the subtlety of Helmut Lang/Prada/Tom Ford that I was attracted to and wanted to wear. I get the impression that Marc is living out his fantasy of the ones he admired now that he’s made rich and famous by copying the designers that he was attracted to. And a shame in that he’s lost, even rejected a lot of that American charm that was always at the heart of his brand.

I think we have talked a lot about Marc’s lack of clear design identity at the time when the brand was in trouble…
The reality is that it won’t get better with time…

We are at the era where his contemporaries are building their legacy or experiencing success based on the core of their aesthetic. We can say or think whatever we want about them but people knows Tom Ford, Rick Owens and even Thom Browne. Their get their aesthetic, they buys their clothes and other products and those designers have succeeded in having a sort of cult around their work that in a way has allowed them to not care about the idea of relevance (even if they always feels the need to chase the trends).
It’s not the case for Marc Jacobs.

I remember back in the day during the hype of his brand, the success was very NYC based. They had a store in Paris but people loved to go there to buy the tshirts with the supermodels or stinky rat line. I mean there was never an appetite for his clothes even if the hype created a big success for his bags. And it’s interesting because his bags were definitely in the luxury category next to Chloe.

Marc is of course very talented but his own brand will remain a good name without any clear identity.

We as member of TFS, and fashion real hardcore fans can tell what is really Marc’s aesthetic. Ask anybody else, they won’t be able to reply…Unless they mention that 1993 Perry Ellis collection, which in his body of work is quite minor. When he cameback in 1994/1995, he did bourgeois. At Vuitton the first year it was American Sportswear apart from the breakthrough of FW2000…

His Vuitton even was great in terms of spectacle and pop culture but nobody can tell what it stands for. I have 5 Vuitton collections that I absolutely loved from him and they couldn’t be more different from each other.

The reason I want him at Dior is maybe because for once he will see his clothes being worn again after a long time and it might infuse something in his creativity.

I imagine this collection at Bergdorf…You go to the store, you want to try the pieces, but you aren’t wearing those insane boots and suddenly the Westwood silhouettes looks slightly less desirable. Maybe you might go to the Westwood corner instead…

 

[THD96]

I think we have talked a lot about Marc’s lack of clear design identity at the time when the brand was in trouble…
The reality is that it won’t get better with time…

We are at the era where his contemporaries are building their legacy or experiencing success based on the core of their aesthetic. We can say or think whatever we want about them but people knows Tom Ford, Rick Owens and even Thom Browne. Their get their aesthetic, they buys their clothes and other products and those designers have succeeded in having a sort of cult around their work that in a way has allowed them to not care about the idea of relevance (even if they always feels the need to chase the trends).
It’s not the case for Marc Jacobs.

I remember back in the day during the hype of his brand, the success was very NYC based. They had a store in Paris but people loved to go there to buy the tshirts with the supermodels or stinky rat line. I mean there was never an appetite for his clothes even if the hype created a big success for his bags. And it’s interesting because his bags were definitely in the luxury category next to Chloe.

Marc is of course very talented but his own brand will remain a good name without any clear identity.

We as member of TFS, and fashion real hardcore fans can tell what is really Marc’s aesthetic. Ask anybody else, they won’t be able to reply…Unless they mention that 1993 Perry Ellis collection, which in his body of work is quite minor. When he cameback in 1994/1995, he did bourgeois. At Vuitton the first year it was American Sportswear apart from the breakthrough of FW2000…

His Vuitton even was great in terms of spectacle and pop culture but nobody can tell what it stands for. I have 5 Vuitton collections that I absolutely loved from him and they couldn’t be more different from each other.

The reason I want him at Dior is maybe because for once he will see his clothes being worn again after a long time and it might infuse something in his creativity.

I imagine this collection at Bergdorf…You go to the store, you want to try the pieces, but you aren’t wearing those insane boots and suddenly the Westwood silhouettes looks slightly less desirable. Maybe you might go to the Westwood corner instead…

I think Marc doesn't have to think too much about his legacy now since his brand is already a part of LVMH, even when he's gone, he's already secured.

In a way, Marc's brand right now reminds me of Karl's eponymous brand. They delivered good collections but they don't have a strong identity.
Their best legacy will always be for the brand they worked for. I do think that working for a brand that has an established history can help to bring out the best in Marc. He has the imagination, he just needs a strong foundation to build on.

At this point in his life and his career, I think he just design his interpretation of the clothes that he likes. I would love to see him going back to his early 2010s aesthetic, that is Marc at his best for me.

One of the pitiful things about the brand right now is he designed a good collection, but I'm sure that at least 80% of these looks will never be available because the company is focusing on bags rather than fashion right now.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

I think we have talked a lot about Marc’s lack of clear design identity at the time when the brand was in trouble…
The reality is that it won’t get better with time…

We are at the era where his contemporaries are building their legacy or experiencing success based on the core of their aesthetic. We can say or think whatever we want about them but people knows Tom Ford, Rick Owens and even Thom Browne. Their get their aesthetic, they buys their clothes and other products and those designers have succeeded in having a sort of cult around their work that in a way has allowed them to not care about the idea of relevance (even if they always feels the need to chase the trends).
It’s not the case for Marc Jacobs.

I remember back in the day during the hype of his brand, the success was very NYC based. They had a store in Paris but people loved to go there to buy the tshirts with the supermodels or stinky rat line. I mean there was never an appetite for his clothes even if the hype created a big success for his bags. And it’s interesting because his bags were definitely in the luxury category next to Chloe.

Marc is of course very talented but his own brand will remain a good name without any clear identity.

We as member of TFS, and fashion real hardcore fans can tell what is really Marc’s aesthetic. Ask anybody else, they won’t be able to reply…Unless they mention that 1993 Perry Ellis collection, which in his body of work is quite minor. When he cameback in 1994/1995, he did bourgeois. At Vuitton the first year it was American Sportswear apart from the breakthrough of FW2000…

His Vuitton even was great in terms of spectacle and pop culture but nobody can tell what it stands for. I have 5 Vuitton collections that I absolutely loved from him and they couldn’t be more different from each other.

The reason I want him at Dior is maybe because for once he will see his clothes being worn again after a long time and it might infuse something in his creativity.

I imagine this collection at Bergdorf…You go to the store, you want to try the pieces, but you aren’t wearing those insane boots and suddenly the Westwood silhouettes looks slightly less desirable. Maybe you might go to the Westwood corner instead…

I am not sure if Marc has it in him to turn things around.

He would need to get his own house in order before LVMH gives him another property to oversee.

But sadly he is not the designer he used to be. He no longer possesses the insight or perspective to steer and guide the cultural conversation. Or tap into desire.

The idea that added responsibility would give him some kind of renewed energy is generous. If he can't light a fire under his own *** to save his own brand then I don't know what will.

I don't really know what is going through his head at the moment. I get the feeling that he is struggling with his age and he's going through some kind of identity crisis.

Or maybe he no longer needs fashion to be the outlet he once did.

It's really a shame because fall winter 2020 was amazing. It in fact sold very well despite the pandemic. If he had only continued in that direction we would be having a very different conversation right now.

 

[penny609]

I seriously don't know what to think of this collection anymore. I actually like it but I'd love to love it, if it was (even slightly) more inspired. I have fond memories from many past collections by Marc and even if once again this one is far from bad, I don't feel the thrill I wanted to. Also the styling, the set and other aspects of how it's put together could be better. Sometimes, some time ago, he used to take me in another world. Here is just another nice collection to look at.

 

[Norden]

I am not sure if Marc has it in him to turn things around.

He would need to get his own house in order before LVMH gives him another property to oversee.

But sadly he is not the designer he used to be. He no longer possesses the insight or perspective to steer and guide the cultural conversation. Or tap into desire.

The idea that added responsibility would give him some kind of renewed energy is generous. If he can't light a fire under his own *** to save his own brand then I don't know what will.

I don't really know what is going through his head at the moment. I get the feeling that he is struggling with his age and he's going through some kind of identity crisis.

Or maybe he no longer needs fashion to be the outlet he once did.

It's really a shame because fall winter 2020 was amazing. It in fact sold very well despite the pandemic. If he had only continued in that direction we would be having a very different conversation right now.

exactly, why he didn’t push forward in the 2020 direction baffles me, it was such a good show with energy, and really beautiful and fun clothes. Maybe he needs a prolonged break

 

[Deleted member 7575]

exactly, why he didn’t push forward in the 2020 direction baffles me, it was such a good show with energy, and really beautiful and fun clothes. Maybe he needs a prolonged break

At the time I remember him saying something along the lines of "I would be completely happy if this were the last collection I ever designed."

He was expressing his satisfaction with his work but it also sounded very ominous. When he didn't follow up the next sesson I had thought he quietly retired.

And maybe he meant to and was later convinced to come back or maybe he changed his mind.

And maybe in a way he has retired (mentally) and this is just him having fun. Maybe it's just a marketing expense to keep the sales of tote bags and Daisy fragrance going.

 

[Lola701]

I think Marc doesn't have to think too much about his legacy now since his brand is already a part of LVMH, even when he's gone, he's already secured.

In a way, Marc's brand right now reminds me of Karl's eponymous brand. They delivered good collections but they don't have a strong identity.
Their best legacy will always be for the brand they worked for. I do think that working for a brand that has an established history can help to bring out the best in Marc. He has the imagination, he just needs a strong foundation to build on.

At this point in his life and his career, I think he just design his interpretation of the clothes that he likes. I would love to see him going back to his early 2010s aesthetic, that is Marc at his best for me.

One of the pitiful things about the brand right now is he designed a good collection, but I'm sure that at least 80% of these looks will never be available because the company is focusing on bags rather than fashion right now.

What I meant about legacy was from a fashion perspective. Yes the brand will always exist now that it’s part of LVMH but it’s also a pity that it doesn’t have a strong legacy.

Karl had some fairly good collections for his own line but it was handled poorly. They were clever to finally cash on Karl’s visual identity to kind of create something behind it.

Marc Jacobs’s work needs to resonate in others ways than references to his contemporaries and pop culture moment.

The problem is that when nobody can connect with your clothes, your work (because in essence what he presents on the runway is supposed to be the vision that attracts people to the brand) becomes irrelevant.

I don’t believe that being part of the fashion conversation is enough to be considered relevant. Your clothes have to connect with people…

But the sad things is that they tried to merge all the lines of MJ under one line but that was what put the house in trouble. Now in a way they have edited things to create some sort of coherence in the offering…But if you go on the Marc’s website and then go the Bergdorf’s website, you kind of understand that the runway show is like his version of Haute Couture.

It’s the formula that works because the customer wants the logos, the bags and the runway collection is used on the redcarpet, editorials and campaigns. It’s the winning formula but I think overtime, the name Marc Jacobs wouldn’t resonate with something in particular from a fashion POV.

 

[style_expert]

The problem with Marc's runway collections is that they're not pioneering enough to be avant-garde, not commercial enough to be sellable and not appealing enough to be desirable.
Based on that I don't really see the point of presenting runway collections, apart from a short moment of marketing as others have said.

Business wise, they've made very questionable choices in the past, but now it's completely headed into a Michael Kors-MK line territory in terms of product, pricing and positioning in the stores. Once you choose this commercial route, it's really difficult to become a more prestigious, luxury brand again. I guess that's not the plan anyway.

I think LVMH can be forever grateful to Marc Jacobs for his work at Vuitton and what he has done there, Maybe part of their appreciation is reflected in the fact that they still operate his own brand to this day.
But to be honest, I don't think they will invest a substantial amount anymore in his brand, let alone make him head designer at one of the bigger houses.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

LVMH may own Marc Jacobs but they can always sell it.

They did not hesitate to dump Donna Karan as soon as a good offer appeared.

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up selling MJ to Coty.

 

[Bugsy]

What is his look? He seems to imitate a lot.

 

[tourbillions]

As a luxury fashion house i don't think Marc Jacobs has any identity but there is definitely a sort of "cult" following the brand. However it is more in line with contemporary brands. I see so many people carrying that camera bag.

 

[Lola701]

LVMH may own Marc Jacobs but they can always sell it.

They did not hesitate to dump Donna Karan as soon as a good offer appeared.

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up selling MJ to Coty.

I never paid attention to the fact that their perfumes were done by Coty.
They aren’t even like Kenzo.

I can also see them sell the brand now…

As a luxury fashion house i don't think Marc Jacobs has any identity but there is definitely a sort of "cult" following the brand. However it is more in line with contemporary brands. I see so many people carrying that camera bag.

Marc Jacobs is not luxury brand obviously. We can pretend it is because of the aura of Marc but in reality it’s not.