Phoebe Philo - Designer

[Cocteau Stone]

I think Phoebe needs to hire a stronger handbag designer. The bags are looking a bit too anonymous right now for customers outside of her core fanbase.

I think that's what Phoebe's intentions are though with a lot of the designs. I do think she's very caught up in herself a bit to really embrace a lighter, funner (re: stripper pole shoot) side but she knows what she wants to do. Having Kendall and Hailey buy/wear/be styled in her pieces too is smart in a short term way because it broadens the appeal but maintains that "anonymity"/silence in the aesthetic. Very clean girl overall, but as pieces are very transformable because of how discreet it is.

Long term though I'm not too sure how it will pan out. I'm still in the belief that Phoebe is in bit of a trial and error phase with her brand. Officially, since it's been selling any form of product, it isn't even a year old yet.

 

[TaylorBinque]

I do think stronger designed leather goods can do wonders. Parts of her Celine success was that the handbags were highly popular. All the bags became IT bags (in Asia) and everyone who wants to be deemed classy, successful working women did own one or two. Same as the Row's Margeaux bag. To be very honest, Kendall and Hailey did nothing to the brands. If she wants this to be commercially viable for a long run, doing drops and making "transformable" wouldn't cut it. Good thing though she over charged everything so at least all her staff are getting paid.

 

[PDFSD]

I do think stronger designed leather goods can do wonders. Parts of her Celine success was that the handbags were highly popular. All the bags became IT bags (in Asia) and everyone who wants to be deemed classy, successful working women did own one or two. Same as the Row's Margeaux bag. To be very honest, Kendall and Hailey did nothing to the brands. If she wants this to be commercially viable for a long run, doing drops and making "transformable" wouldn't cut it. Good thing though she over charged everything so at least all her staff are getting paid.

Do agree the bag game she will need to step it up in order to have a healthy income for the brand to offset the fashion and rtw part that is less of the money makers ....maybe even first drops should have been back focus or given to few celebrities as a stealth test run way before the launch etc

To be fair the Row's Margeaux bag took time to be now in demand and the brand in total as well she just is one season out with a lot of anticipation ...maye here would have been also better to start more locally doing drops and forget online retail at first to have it only as a window of preview.

I am sure she will adjust and try other ways to sell and do her drops it's interesting to see how it will develop , but she will need a touch of something popular either in a product or way of communication to bring a more longer and bigger interest of a wider public to lust after her brand and items.

its easy to speak to only a small niche audience but its more interesting to speak to a wider audience with a niche idea

 

[Grets]

Yes the Margaux was a bag that took 6 years to establish itself. Phoebe's goal is not to recreate the same height of success at Celine. I do think it probably pissed her off how many designers ripped her off and she wants to reclaim it with her own brand. Did she invent quiet luxury? No. But the combination of the styling, the ad campaigns, to even the music used at shows are so Phoebe Philo-coded. It would be great to see a runway show, the look book images are not enough.

 

[tricotineacetat]

I think Phoebe needs to hire a stronger handbag designer. The bags are looking a bit too anonymous right now for customers outside of her core fanbase.

There is only so much demand a new brand can meet with that is only having such limited distribution right now - So to compare that with her bags at Celine is futile since the circumstances were very different. By the time her Celine bags cemented their cult status, there was a balanced saturation on the market, both in brick-and-mortar retail and only hesitantly online. Compared to that, there is only one shop-in-shop corner existing in NYC.

To address the kind of customer who may not be a diehard fan of her's since Celine, the brand needs more visibility - Right now it's very much an insider's thing and the production quantities probably reflect that. It also limits the potential of how quickly her leather goods can gain traction.

 

[PDFSD]

Yes the Margaux was a bag that took 6 years to establish itself. Phoebe's goal is not to recreate the same height of success at Celine. I do think it probably pissed her off how many designers ripped her off and she wants to reclaim it with her own brand. Did she invent quiet luxury? No. But the combination of the styling, the ad campaigns, to even the music used at shows are so Phoebe Philo-coded. It would be great to see a runway show, the look book images are not enough.

i totally agree there is a mix in her way she plays with design and minimalism that is widely copied to the point that people feel the need to criticize her for doing what she loves to do bauce is looks to much like what other followers have been doing.
is crazy, it makes total sense to reclaim her style its , we can see how difficult it is for brands to even have a style and young designers included.

i do disagree that she is not wanting to have success or even more than her Celine days, just by amount of money invested & Milions spend and the team and office and the role out of the brand in general and amount of items she produced in the first collection it's not a set out to be shy for growth and success and rightfully so.

she knows she need hit items to sustain the freedom to experiment in Rtw and say something more meaningful or sinple do as she please for her self and her fashion followers and clientes new and old.

You need income to have freedom as a business or artist for that you need big success , and i from what i know and read she is no wall flower nor is shy from commerce.

it's different when your name is the brand as well.

 

[rowjellies]

I think her team can learn a lot from the Reed Krackoff brand (ex Coach designer) and the common pitfalls of going from mega-brand to your own line.

Reed had huge financial backing from Coach and created generally well-liked but never a big hit “quiet luxury” handbags — logo-less minimalistic designs with high quality leathers.

The issue with Reed was he was used to Coach-level resources and didn’t have much financial discipline. They overspent and the critical reception and sales were not enough to support the overhead.

That being said, Phoebe had much more name recognition among women than he did at the time.

 

[PDFSD]

I think her team can learn a lot from the Reed Krackoff brand (ex Coach designer) and the common pitfalls of going from mega-brand to your own line.

Reed had huge financial backing from Coach and created generally well-liked but never a big hit “quiet luxury” handbags — logo-less minimalistic designs with high quality leathers.

The issue with Reed was he was used to Coach-level resources and didn’t have much financial discipline. They overspent and the critical reception and sales were not enough to support the overhead.

That being said, Phoebe had much more name recognition among women than he did at the time.

There is still a danger for it to flop even if she has more name recognition than Reed had at that time.

I agree on this that they can learn from Reed mistakes as well and exercise discipline in general to nurture the brand more carefully (especially with merchandising the collection drops more condensed and focused ) for a healthy growth as there where items in the Phoebe drops that felt to me too early and indulgenced for a small new brand to produce at this first stage, from the necklaces with pendants badge ring, cuf jwl, pillow scarfs, anonimus leather bucket hats, swimwear studded bikini, even some rtw and bags and shoes did not need to exist as its broadens the choice and design focus too much at this early stage and its acting like a big brand offer already while the idea is to have something special and not easy to get at every corner or city.

But in understand also they wanted to test the waters with more offer options, but on the site even if items are sold out to see it between still left on display makes it look like not much sold and if they wanted a Supreme drop approach it should mean you have to also clean away sold out merch on display online after a certain time.

 

[brandon J pierre]

It's too expensive! , I love everything else about her brand the photos the way she set up the website fantastic I love the collection I think women will look great in those clothes but it's too goddamn expensive. And with these horrible lvmh Fendi Gucci stories about sweatshops people are going to start to turn heads.

 

[Kennnnn]

It's too expensive! , I love everything else about her brand the photos the way she set up the website fantastic I love the collection I think women will look great in those clothes but it's too goddamn expensive. And with these horrible lvmh Fendi Gucci stories about sweatshops people are going to start to turn heads.

Absolutely agree about the prices. It really only became apparent to me when she launched her own label that a big part of the allure behind her Céline was the prestige of Paris and of the maison, and the massive luxury apparatus buttressing it.

There was an accessibility but also intimacy about the Céline experience. You could walk into any of the beautiful stores and meet women with a similar taste in fashion, feel and try on the clothes, and you could buy a simple, perfect cabas for 500 euros.

And then, as a customer, all the perks - small leather goods personalised with your name on it for your birthday, a mini in-store celebration of cake and Ruinart. One time, I had a jacket delivered to me in just 3 hours, by bullet train from Nagoya to Tokyo, just to try on. And I wasn't even a VIP customer, just a regular.

Phoebe Philo, to me, feels like a very over-priced, niche London label. The clothes are fine, but they don't make me dream. And they're at least 30-40% more expensive than her Céline.

 

[Kanzai]

For me, people who buy Phoebe Philo are no different from money launderers. Guys, at least in money laundering activities, I see something unique about the goods. These are just beyond delulu, capitalism at its worst, ridiculously . 2 years old label demanding those prices, rly ???

 

[tourbillions]

shes unfortunately not insta famous enough to demand these prices.

 

[Lola701]

I think the only thing that can be problematic with Philo is the absence of retail space around the world but in retrospective, those prices are good for the audience she is looking for.

Maybe people should be feel less entitled to luxury and be ok with something out pricing them.

I personally have my price limits on some pieces. I’m totally fine with buying on sales and things like that. There are enough people who are rich for that.

What will be interesting for her brand will be which items will push them to be commercially viable on a long run. When Tom Ford launched his own line, it was super expensive and it had all the superlatives. In his business model, sunglasses and fragrances were the driving forces of the operations.

The problem is that with expansion, compromises had to be made.

I don’t think Phoebe is envisioning competing with big brands. So I guess no compromises on her clothes and the quality will be crucial. But production and distribution and maintaining that fine line with exclusivity will be key.

The question for me is « what am I willing to pay for ». I think the RTW for the most part is ok. I think the prices of the bags are a bit all over the place and I’m frustrated by the prices of the jewelry. I love the belt buckle cuff in silver but 1800€ is not what I’m willing to pay for that.
I think she needs to work on her footwear though.

Tbh, I think Phoebe, with the scale of her brand can command those prices. It’s very expensive, too much sometimes but in reality, if it has a real life reality, it would be more justifiable.

I find The Row overpriced. Phoebe might be overpriced but I would rather spend my money at PP than TR.

Sometimes, there’s no logic to it.

 

[LadyJunon]

It's too expensive! , I love everything else about her brand the photos the way she set up the website fantastic I love the collection I think women will look great in those clothes but it's too goddamn expensive. And with these horrible lvmh Fendi Gucci stories about sweatshops people are going to start to turn heads.

Absolutely agree about the prices. It really only became apparent to me when she launched her own label that a big part of the allure behind her Céline was the prestige of Paris and of the maison, and the massive luxury apparatus buttressing it.

There was an accessibility but also intimacy about the Céline experience. You could walk into any of the beautiful stores and meet women with a similar taste in fashion, feel and try on the clothes, and you could buy a simple, perfect cabas for 500 euros.

And then, as a customer, all the perks - small leather goods personalised with your name on it for your birthday, a mini in-store celebration of cake and Ruinart. One time, I had a jacket delivered to me in just 3 hours, by bullet train from Nagoya to Tokyo, just to try on. And I wasn't even a VIP customer, just a regular.

Phoebe Philo, to me, feels like a very over-priced, niche London label. The clothes are fine, but they don't make me dream. And they're at least 30-40% more expensive than her Céline.

This. I think that the launch of Philo's eponymous label has shown is that the perception of luxury brands, especially in this age, is an equation of 50% product, 30% image and 20% experience.

The product is strong, but the image is weak and the experience is non-existent. The hype of her incoming debut replaced that, but once the newness wore off, the excitement seemed to taper off extremely quickly.

The company appears to operate closer to a digitally native indie New York/London/Berlin-based label with a £400 to £800 price point. Like Philo, many of those labels offer stellar, exceptionally made product (often better than the average corporate luxury brand), but feel extremely arid with the severe lack of fantasy, dream or emotion.

 

[jeremydante]

...and the experience is non-existent.

It really is though. I was so excited to see what she would create without restraint, and the requirement of honoring a house. I am subscribed to the the brand's email of drops, but nothing is exciting. Initially, it drew my interest but beyond that- nothing. The fact that there are no releases of looks books to Vogue, and everything is done through email. Agreeing fully with you @LadyJunon her allure was definitely part of the package at Céline and Chloé.

As great a designer is, I don't know that her style star is powerful enough to forge ahead with just a simple email strategy for publicity. Wonder what her numbers are looking like since her launch.

 

[Lola701]

It really is though. I was so excited to see what she would create without restraint, and the requirement of honoring a house. I am subscribed to the the brand's email of drops, but nothing is exciting. Initially, it drew my interest but beyond that- nothing. The fact that there are no releases of looks books to Vogue, and everything is done through email. Agreeing fully with you @LadyJunon her allure was definitely part of the package at Céline and Chloé.

As great a designer is, I don't know that her style star is powerful enough to forge ahead with just a simple email strategy for publicity. Wonder what her numbers are looking like since her launch.

Tbh, numbers at this point are not interesting. It will be interesting to see how things evolves in 2/3 years.
Obviously, it’s a soft launch and the cards haven’t been exploited to their potential.

This is not Rihanna’s Fenty brand. She has a credibility, an influence in the fashion space that doesn’t revolve on the idea of a « fandom that could afford the products ».

At short term for a brand like this, the goal is to break even.

 

[jeremydante]

Tbh, numbers at this point are not interesting.

The numbers are key to longevity, so I don't feel like they should be parsed out from launch, regardless of soft launch or not.

She has a credibility, an influence in the fashion space that doesn’t revolve on the idea of a « fandom that could afford the products ».

True influence is seen in good numbers, hence credibility by ability to sell.

I get your point, but the game today is about numbers. We know she can design, we know she can revive a house, but breaking out on your own is something entirely different. With her influence being so well documented, a soft launch seems unfitting outside of playing it safe. Economically, this is wise.

 

[Lola701]

The numbers are key to longevity, so I don't feel like they should be parsed out from launch, regardless of soft launch or not.

True influence is seen in good numbers, hence credibility by ability to sell.

I get your point, but the game today is about numbers. We know she can design, we know she can revive a house, but breaking out on your own is something entirely different. With her influence being so well documented, a soft launch seems unfitting outside of playing it safe. Economically, this is wise.

Hedi did terrible numbers his first year and a half at Celine.
The things that are at stakes for her brand are not the same that were at stake when she was at the helm of a brand like Celine.

We would probably never get the numbers so what will be interesting, in order to have a broader POV of her operation will be to see how she structure her line in the future, how distribution evolves and also how her work evolves too.

She is part of the fashion conversation today because of her influence anyway and her aesthetic is still somehow the leading one in the luxury fashion space. The way her direction evolves can also impact the fate of her company too.

What is interesting is that she came up with a full line so part of analyzing her work will also be about seeing how those categories evolves.

I think that maybe social media is putting those insane pressure and unexpected questions around something that does not even have a full year of business. I know she is Phoebe Philo but she also needs time. It hasn’t been ONE year!

 

[rowjellies]

I know it's very cynical, but her bags need to be more Instagram-able. The three young-ish brands that thrived in her absence - The Row, Toteme, Khaite - they succeed in creating minimal bags (and accessories) that photograph well and translate well on Instagram. The Row (Margaux, Park, Sofia), Khaite (Lotus, Olivia Hobo), Toteme T-Lock, you can identify them instantly.

Even an heritage house like Loro Piana is doing this well with their Bale bag or L27 Pouch. The Instagram crowd is eating up these bags like candy. The choice of highest quality materials and leathers is not an obstacle to their commercial success.

 

[PDFSD]

I know it's very cynical, but her bags need to be more Instagram-able. The three young-ish brands that thrived in her absence - The Row, Toteme, Khaite - they succeed in creating minimal bags (and accessories) that photograph well and translate well on Instagram. The Row (Margaux, Park, Sofia), Khaite (Lotus, Olivia Hobo), Toteme T-Lock, you can identify them instantly.

Even an heritage house like Loro Piana is doing this well with their Bale bag or L27 Pouch. The Instagram crowd is eating up these bags like candy. The choice of highest quality materials and leathers is not an obstacle to their commercial success.

I disagree that the success of the other brands you mention has to do with being instagram-able, it has to do more with the halo around those brands that push very simple looking bags as new classics or it bags, of these mostly well documented on IG brands in all types of ways organic or brand posts you get bombarded ....LP or The Row benefited from the post Phoebe era, adding the focus on quite luxury or whatever they call it now.

Phoebe even had a bag with a horizontal zip kelly style top handle much like the L27 pouch now....you can bet your dollar´s that she has been on the mood board a few times in general.

The BV pouch bag thing was a bag also done at Celine even in her last show, with BV it took off more beacuse it made sense and the version clicked with the fashion crowd sometimes good ideas need the right environment/context to be a succes.

The question is also Phoebe´s brand might be getting the short end of the stick because of the trend is so well spread since her last Celine days.

Then again all she need is a few hit styles in bags and shoes and she can ride a new wave of success, i think a element of surprise or shock is missing in the prestinion it's just because we seen sooo many brands do a twist on her style at Celine you take it for granted what is now presented under her own name.