Phoebe Philo to leave Céline

[donyan]

It somehow feels as if LVMH seems to be far removed from the creative choices they took in the 90s and 00s, maybe they want to turn Celine into another version of what they are doing with Dior and Givenchy. Phoebe was very headstrong, the fact there never was a proper Online Presence might have caused some friction. I’m not holding my breath tbh

 

[TaylorBinque]

It somehow feels as if LVMH seems to be far removed from the creative choices they took in the 90s and 00s, maybe they want to turn Celine into another version of what they are doing with Dior and Givenchy. Phoebe was very headstrong, the fact there never was a proper Online Presence might have caused some friction. I’m not holding my breath tbh

They just started to have an online store for Celine in France. I think at the end of the day LVMH is all about sales. What interesting to me is that all of Kering brands have really well structured e-commerce business yet each one is treated with strong creative and business direction. Gucci and Bottega Veneta always experiment with their campaigns. Most of LVMH brands continues to use the same photographers that do not bring anything new to the table at all.

 

[donyan]

They just started to have an online store for Celine in France. I think at the end of the day LVMH is all about sales. What interesting to me is that all of Kering brands have really well structured e-commerce business yet each one is treated with strong creative and business direction. Gucci and Bottega Veneta always experiment with their campaigns. Most of LVMH brands continues to use the same photographers that do not bring anything new to the table at all.

that’s my feeling too, Kering seem to have a very strong sense of direction and purpose for each of their brands , they have taken risks that have paid off spectacularly , whereas LVMH seems a bit lost as to what to do with their brands .They all seem to work well financially but there’s no passion or emotion anymore

 

[Lola701]

So, from the latest rumors, Jacquemus is indeed a contender.

For those who don't know about it, Delphine Arnault has been very instrumental about everything fashion in LVMH. She was instrumental for Nicolas to join Vuitton as she was for JWA to join Loewe.

Jacquemus is a strong contender because, first of all: The LVMH prize. Out of all the winners, he is really the one who had made an impact in the scene. He has been featured a lot in the medias, on TV and all. He is selling well and his business has really took off since.

Jacquemus is also french and based in Paris with a small team. Why is it still a rumor? Because Jacquemus has expressed a lot his desire to remain independent and it's unsure to determine if he can handle the pressure.

Jacquemus aside, they are considering giving the job to an LVMH Prize finalist instead of a big star.

One thing is sure, even if they expected Phoebe to leave, this doesn't really comes at the right time for LVMH. While most of the brands are doing good (except for MJ), it's quite an uncertain time for LVMH brands. They have lost Dundas and since then, Pucci has been flat, Dior is there and between and they have that Givenchy thing that is not really in place. Now, Celine and as Nicolas's status will remain unknown until the end of 2018, it will not be easy.

Kering seem to have a very strong sense of direction and purpose for each of their brands , they have taken risks that have paid off spectacularly , whereas LVMH seems a bit lost as to what to do with their brands .They all seem to work well financially but there’s no passion or emotion anymore

There's some truth in that but it's all part of a shift. 3 years ago, the hottest brands were Louis Vuitton and Celine. Balenciaga and Gucci weren't in that place.
Plus, i don't think we can really say that Alexander McQueen or Bottega Veneta have a real sense of direction or purpose.

 

[mathiaskatz]

I've said this many times but it's too soon for Jacquemus. Let Simon build his own brand up a bit longer before falling to the pressures of LVMH and the legacy of Phoebe.

 

[MulletProof]

Jacquemus would be stupid to take it. He’s done one, ‘not bad’ thing one could for once call a collection instead of a gathering of everyone that can’t get into other shows and it was mostly the theme what made it appealing, god knows a thin scarf wrapped around the butt completes no one’s wardrobe.. certainly not Phoebe’s clientele.

Filling up Phoebe’s shoes.. give me a break.. do people even care about working their way up anymore?. Look at the past and learn how you find a Phoebe.. she was in Stella’s team.. there must be someone in Phoebe’s team at Céline infinitely more capable, experienced, fully aware of the responsibilities and with serious training that doesn’t involve just being a ‘well-connected’ really really ridiculously good-looking SA..

 

[Lola701]

Jacquemus would be stupid to take it. He’s done one, ‘not bad’ thing one could for once call a collection instead of a gathering of everyone that can’t get into other shows and it was mostly the theme what made it appealing, god knows a thin scarf wrapped around the butt completes no one’s wardrobe.. certainly not Phoebe’s clientele.

Filling up Phoebe’s shoes.. give me a break.. do people even care about working their way up anymore?. Look at the past and learn how you find a Phoebe.. she was in Stella’s team.. there must be someone in Phoebe’s team at Céline infinitely more capable, experienced, fully aware of the responsibilities and with serious training that doesn’t involve just being a ‘well-connected’ really really ridiculously good-looking SA..

It is said (still rumor) that her closest collaborators are leaving with her. That's why LVMH has been auditionning people for over a year.

Celine is not an easy job to take. They are making money, they are successful so, it's more difficult to come now, even more after Philo and beyond that, with all the pressure that LVMH could put on someone's shoulders.

They are going for a change in direction but with the same consumer on mind. To be honest, JWA would have been perfect for it. What he is doing at Loewe has the same spirit but, they have tried so hard to make the brand happen that they are not going to ruin it now that it's growing and selling well.

 

[Benn98]

JWA should stay put at Loewe, I think the top brass are clever enough to know they'd not only hurt Loewe and Céline with such a move. When someone as imposing and talented as Philo leave, there's no way you can continue with the same style aesthetic. The replacement will come off as ersatz, even JWA. Now what Jacwuemus will bring I really don't know.

 

[tricotineacetat]

Jacquemus would be stupid to take it. He’s done one, ‘not bad’ thing one could for once call a collection instead of a gathering of everyone that can’t get into other shows and it was mostly the theme what made it appealing, god knows a thin scarf wrapped around the butt completes no one’s wardrobe.. certainly not Phoebe’s clientele.

Filling up Phoebe’s shoes.. give me a break.. do people even care about working their way up anymore?. Look at the past and learn how you find a Phoebe.. she was in Stella’s team.. there must be someone in Phoebe’s team at Céline infinitely more capable, experienced, fully aware of the responsibilities and with serious training that doesn’t involve just being a ‘well-connected’ really really ridiculously good-looking SA..

I agree, a job like this at this point of the houses' expansion is a poisoned chalice. It would take for a seasoned designer to take over but it would at the same time be impossible to escape the comparison to Phoeb Philo's incredible successful tenure. I don't think LVMH would hire somebody like Stefano Pilati even though he would fit perfectly here and be the right person to fill these shoes.

 

[Lola701]

JWA should stay put at Loewe, I think the top brass are clever enough to know they'd not only hurt Loewe and Céline with such a move. When someone as imposing and talented as Philo leave, there's no way you can continue with the same style aesthetic. The replacement will come off as ersatz, even JWA. Now what Jacwuemus will bring I really don't know.

You said it all. For me they should choose someone who speak the same language but with a different accent.
Trying to emulate Phoebe would be a total mistake. Being beige has never worked but one thing is sure: the heritage of Phoebe is necessary to understand the new Celine.

I don't know if Stefano was asked to do the job but if it is the case and if he accepted, it could be such a fun twist because Celine at first was heavily inspired by what he did for YSL a decade ago. His aesthetic mixed with his new Berliner life could be interesting.

One thing is sure, if ever Stefano is doing this, we could expect great and ambitious tailoring! And i'm all for a beautifully cut pant!

 

[GreyVetiver]

You said it all. For me they should choose someone who speak the same language but with a different accent.
Trying to emulate Phoebe would be a total mistake. Being beige has never worked but one thing is sure: the heritage of Phoebe is necessary to understand the new Celine.

I don't know if Stefano was asked to do the job but if it is the case and if he accepted, it could be such a fun twist because Celine at first was heavily inspired by what he did for YSL a decade ago. His aesthetic mixed with his new Berliner life could be interesting.

One thing is sure, if ever Stefano is doing this, we could expect great and ambitious tailoring! And i'm all for a beautifully cut pant!

As much as I miss and love Stefano, I don't think he will take the job. He's said in various interviews that he enjoys his life right now and he's been developing his own collection. I don't see why he would want to be under such immense pressure again. Also, I don't think sale in his last years at YSL and Zegna/Agnona were that good; I doubt LVMH would take that risk.

 

[Benn98]

His aesthetic mixed with his new Berliner life could be interesting.

One thing is sure, if ever Stefano is doing this, we could expect great and ambitious tailoring! And i'm all for a beautifully cut pant!

Ugh, and with him will come that annoying Larissa Hoffmann/Joerg Koch posse. Can't stand them! Have you ever been to one of their parties? Just 032c, it'll drive you up the wall. I'd much rather a pompous Parisian than a bombastic Berliner with a deluded sense of pseudo-intellectualism. Anyway, Anna won't approve. Too dark, too gloomy, too this, too that. I swear, I NEVER got the flak she hurled at Pilati's YSL. It was actually a very taut offering. That ship has sailed luckily.

 

[MulletProof]

I'd much rather a pompous Parisian than a bombastic Berliner with a deluded sense of pseudo-intellectualism.

sounds like picking a motorola over an iphone, but to each their own......

Pilati's great and he's definitely taken a lot of crap from that city, but he's too conservative and not trend-devouring the way Phoebe admittedly is. I say pick someone from her team and call it a day, if they're all leaving that's because the right offer hasn't come up.. nobody's that loyal and certainly nobody in that industry is ever that happy living in the shadows.

 

[Benn98]

sounds like picking a motorola over an iphone, but to each their own......

Bollocks! You're saying that with such bias, Mulletproof. I can't quite make out whether you really like the Berlin squad, or really loathe them, or love to loathe them, or....I'm confusing myself, but you catch my drift?

 

[lewak]

More bias and bollocks please!

 

[style_expert]

Pilati's great and he's definitely taken a lot of crap from that city, but he's too conservative and not trend-devouring the way Phoebe admittedly is. I say pick someone from her team and call it a day, if they're all leaving that's because the right offer hasn't come up.. nobody's that loyal and certainly nobody in that industry is ever that happy living in the shadows.

I agree. One thing LVMH should learn from Kering is that you don't need to recruit a so-called star designer to create a great commercial success. Who had heard of Alessandro Michele before his Gucci tenure?

LVMH has been making a number of questionable 'big-name' hires recently with Dior, Givenchy and dare I include Nicolas Ghesquiere for LV as well? Not to mention the mess Pucci currently is.

Stefano Pilati is probably one of the most underrated designers, his YSL tenure was not only interesting design-wise, the art direction and branding were also visually attractive. It's a shame hardly anyone bought these collections.
As Benn98 rightly observed, I think his current "bombastic Berliner with a deluded sense of pseudo-intellectualism" (spot-on) would be a rather disastrous direction for Celine.

As for Jacquemus, don't even get me started!

 

[YohjiAddict]

Mess, I personally don't like Pilati...also as someone kind of mentioned earlier it would feel like a step back for Céline to return to that strict tailoring of his, Pheobe really came into her own when she became a bit more playful and femenine with her Fall 2013.

 

[donyan]

I have to be honest also and say that I’ve always found it hard to understand the love for Pilati on here - the only thing of his I really liked was that bowler wig Collection for YSL, most of the rest always felt slightly forced and (dare I say) unsure of itself

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I wasn't at all a fan of his YSL silhouette, but what's undeniable is his talent compared to the rest of the field. I don't assume he would repeat what he's already done, but he's never shown a talent for the offbeat. Far from it ... he seems to have very rigid ideas, and that would run absolutely counter to what Phoebe has done at Celine. Jacquemus, though, mines this same vein ...

 

[Lola701]

Ugh, and with him will come that annoying Larissa Hoffmann/Joerg Koch posse. Can't stand them! Have you ever been to one of their parties? Just 032c, it'll drive you up the wall. I'd much rather a pompous Parisian than a bombastic Berliner with a deluded sense of pseudo-intellectualism. Anyway, Anna won't approve. Too dark, too gloomy, too this, too that. I swear, I NEVER got the flak she hurled at Pilati's YSL. It was actually a very taut offering. That ship has sailed luckily.

Ahahaha!
To be honest, i have a very romanticized image of Stefano. When i think about him most of the time, i really think about him 10 years ago when he was dapper and hanging out with Olivier Zahm and the crowd of Le Montana...
I know that he is a totally different person now but i like to live in a fantasy

Yes, his berliner thing can be a too pretentious but i think Berlin add some dirt in his very proper and bourgeois vision for women. I liked what he did for YSL until that infamous FW2008 collection. After that collection, the struggle was real and deep.
Agnona was cool and chic and had that grown-up sexiness that was lacking in his last few years at YSL...But still, too bourgeois, too proper.

For me, Celine needs to be playful. I like to wear Celine because it gives you such a freedom to play with clothes while wearing "serious fashion". It's casual, chic and playful...Something we don't find that much today. LOEWE is like that too.

We will see...

I agree. One thing LVMH should learn from Kering is that you don't need to recruit a so-called star designer to create a great commercial success. Who had heard of Alessandro Michele before his Gucci tenure?

LVMH has been making a number of questionable 'big-name' hires recently with Dior, Givenchy and dare I include Nicolas Ghesquiere for LV as well? Not to mention the mess Pucci currently is.

Stefano Pilati is probably one of the most underrated designers, his YSL tenure was not only interesting design-wise, the art direction and branding were also visually attractive. It's a shame hardly anyone bought these collections.
As Benn98 rightly observed, I think his current "bombastic Berliner with a deluded sense of pseudo-intellectualism" (spot-on) would be a rather disastrous direction for Celine.

As for Jacquemus, don't even get me started!

Don't forget that Kering doesn't function like LVMH, so they can't have exactly the same strategy. Remember that before Tom Ford decided to have his war against LVMH, Kering (then PPR) was into retail, not luxury. The designers that were hired as well as the brand that were bought were choosen by Ford. Kering had some hits/misses with how to handle the life after...
Stefano at YSL was a good business decision, the same for Frida at Gucci. They went for a "star designer" with Slimane and Vaccarello and it succeeded. Same strategy for Balenciaga were it failed critically with Wang but works both ways with Demna. Michele only works because there's a drastic change of aesthetic compared to Frida. Hiring someone from the company doesn't assure a change of aesthetic or even a good response from the retailers and critics.

Celine has been part of LVMH since 1996 and while the brand has always performed well because it was a very small affair, it only became successful with Philo. So, hiring someone from Philo's team to continue what she has done but without her strengh and her cult status could not be the best decision.

They can find someone unknown or famous who can really shake-up the brand while maintaining the products and the aesthetic. Gucci is a leather goods company, Celine is a RTW luxury brand first and we are in a era where brands makes money in clothes as much as they do in accessories. And LVMH seems to have been quite focused in pushing RTW in the forefront of their business. Just look at Givenchy today compared to what it was at the time Riccardo became creative director.

About Jacquemus.. I was really confused by JWA's work but when he came to Loewe, it was a shock. So, today more than ever, i don"t believe in preconceived ideas. Anybody can reinvent itself like Phoebe did.