Phoebe Philo - Designer

[Norden]

Im sorry that instagram post is clueless. Also I don’t see any relation between her brand and the row.

 

[HigthaVandah]

Very interesting critic on the brand.

I hope someone tells op that it's a lot more fun being a stan if you have a sense of humor about it. She's just someone who makes clothes you like, any idolization beyond that is on you.

 

[Lola701]

LMAO at Phoebe Philo going to wholesale is "dirty" but The Row has been doing this (and still is) for almost 2 decades now.

The worst thing is probably the condescending and elitist tone regarding the fact that she sells her brand at various Italian multi brand stores in provinces….

I think some people don’t understand the importance of those stores and of those clients who may not live in big cities but have the means and lifestyle for it.

I remember that before leaving fashion, I used to visit a city in the south of France which was like the 6th city of the country. Way smaller than Marseille, Lyon or Bordeaux. At the time in the early/mid 00’s in that city, they had an Hermes store, a Vuitton store, a multi brand store that was selling Prada, a JPG, a Sonia Rykiel, a Max Mara and a bunch of French brands like Apostrophe, Paule Ka or Apostrophe had stores there. The family that owns Goyard comes from that region.

And there was that charming lady who opened her multi brand kind of concept store there. She was a genius because her biggest coup was selling Alaia at the time and when you sells Alaia, everybody is happy to have you as partner. Because Hermes and Louis Vuitton weren’t selling RTW in those stores, she sold Margiela and Marc Jacobs. She sold Isabel Marant before the VP craze so much that the success of IM in her store inspired the brand to open their own store in the city. And she was selling also Balenciaga by NG before 2007 as the brand really popped with the FW2007 collection. She stocked Jacquemus right after Les Sentons de Provence.
When Phoebe joined Celine, she also started to stock the brand.

And the reality of that small boutique and those small multi brands is what? The curation, the eye and a real understanding of the clientele. Yes the women who lives in those small cities may not spend 16000€ on a coat. But if she can buy an Alaia dress at 3K, she can buy a coherent selection of brands around the same price tag. And because she has a editorial freedom, she could mix strong pieces from those brands into desirable looks.

That’s how you build a clientele that later becomes big clients in the flagship store. And the last time a talked to her, she said she would dream to stick Phoebe Philo and now that Haider is at the brand, Tom Ford.

So you cannot dismiss how important those local stores are. What a stupid post really.

 

[helmutnotdead]

damn I felt sorry for Grets

 

[hamburgers]

Acting like wholesale is a slight on creative integrity…the pro big conglomerate psyop is working.

Look at the stores of brands that go out of their way to minimize wholesale revenue. They end up looking like mini department stores except all the unrelated merch in every department for every possible customer has the same logo on it…

Meanwhile look at brands that produce and depend on the actual runway clothes like Dries, Junya, Sacai etc. most of their turnover is from wholesale (even if they have physical stores) and that’s just how it’s been for independent brands for awhile. Wholesale gives brands market feedback and insight from buyers as well as early brand-building promotion with not much upfront cash.

The DTC model tried to bypass this, but ended up shoving that labor onto the customer. Remember the return policy on the first drop? Nothing like the experience of spending 6k on a coat with no idea about sizing then having to send a fit pic and write an essay about why it’s being returned just to get the return label then having to get it packed and shipped.

 

[IloveDiorHomme]

i don't defend the whole post, BUT, Phoebe was such a snob with her launching in the beginning. She thought the whole universe waited for her like the coming of the Messiah. And that would be "enough".
In the end, she is happy to be sold in some countryside department stores (nothing wrong with that !) and in the Galeries Lafayette in Paris.

She waited too long and some people filled the "cool minimalism" gap she left in a smart way. it's just what it is and now she is forced to rework her strategy and business plan.

 

[Joromana]

i don't defend the whole post, BUT, Phoebe was such a snob with her launching in the beginning. She thought the whole universe waited for her like the coming of the Messiah. And that would be "enough".
In the end, she is happy to be sold in some countryside department stores (nothing wrong with that !) and in the Galeries Lafayette in Paris.

She waited too long and some people filled the "cool minimalism" gap she left in a smart way. it's just what it is and now she is forced to rework her strategy and business plan.

Exactly how was she a 'snob' when she launched her brand?

 

[Lola701]

i don't defend the whole post, BUT, Phoebe was such a snob with her launching in the beginning. She thought the whole universe waited for her like the coming of the Messiah. And that would be "enough".
In the end, she is happy to be sold in some countryside department stores (nothing wrong with that !) and in the Galeries Lafayette in Paris.

She waited too long and some people filled the "cool minimalism" gap she left in a smart way. it's just what it is and now she is forced to rework her strategy and business plan.

I think Phoebe’s fault is actually not her fault because it’s the perception people have of her brand.
HF is snob and clothes at those prices are really not for the mass. The response on her first drop proved that there was an anticipation but also a clientele for that.

And lm sure that the response from that first year allowed her to have more leverage and set her rules in terms of distribution. I don’t know if my friend will manage to sell the brand at her store but I’ll ask her the politics if ever she succeed.

The fact that she has shops-in-shops proves that she has some kind of control.

We remember that at Celine until her last year, she wasn’t for e-commerce and all the stores who sold Celine couldn’t sell it online. Now she is the only online distributor of her brand.

10 years ago, a launch of this kind of brand would have been with a exclusivity for Colette and then the season after at few selected retailers.

What the launch of Phoebe shows is really the reshaping of the retail landscape when launching a luxury house today. Control is really a question that is very prevalent today.

My niece showed me on TikTok some times ago the big sales at Le Bon Marché and how people assumed that Jacquemus flopped because they were putting his bags on sales. And it made think about how now even a contemporary brand has to be careful even when being stocked at Le Bon Marché.

But I think you have to be snob, tough and even rigid today on the positioning of your brand from the beginning. The market is too crowded and the business is too uncertain to gamble.

But there’s a real question mark around this Phoebe Philo brand. Is it a legacy brand or will it disappear with the founder. Now she is building from a reputation but we don’t know if this is going to be a Tom Ford or Jil Sander or an Ann Demeulemeester or Alexander McQueen, aka a brand that can’t survive without it founder.

 

[PDFSD]

i don't defend the whole post, BUT, Phoebe was such a snob with her launching in the beginning. She thought the whole universe waited for her like the coming of the Messiah. And that would be "enough".
In the end, she is happy to be sold in some countryside department stores (nothing wrong with that !) and in the Galeries Lafayette in Paris.

She waited too long and some people filled the "cool minimalism" gap she left in a smart way. it's just what it is and now she is forced to rework her strategy and business plan.

i don't understand who decided when was the right time for anyone to start their own business, one side we want fashion to slow down and give creative directors time to create a vision then they are arrogant because their previous success and many copies, means being humble is to run and create again to show they are rats of the corporate world like many of us ......

when phone left celine you could argue it was slowing down yet the other versions of her style popped up at other labels one could argue if she kept going maybe those were not as successful who knows or the fatigue would be sooner.

wait for the numbers we don't even know what the success or not will be this year chill !!!!

 

[Lola701]

when phone left celine you could argue it was slowing down yet the other versions of her style popped up at other labels one could argue if she kept going maybe those were not as successful who knows or the fatigue would be sooner.

Amen for saying that!
When Phoebe left Celine, her work was already for some time a bit removed from the fashion look and catered more to a niche. SS2016 was really the last collection that was widely copied and influential.
I loved the direction of her latest collections and I adore her SS2018 collection but when she left, the look of fashion, while still being inspired by her work was more about Demna and Alessandro.

It’s her absence that created the cult. This Phoebe Philo brand is really the result of a cult created between that gap and her aesthetic becoming more and more prevalent because everybody that was part of her team found a position at many fashion brands.

 

[Grets]

What annoys me the most is that so many brands copy her. The fact that the PS guys have been able to stay relevant by copying her style for years and then getting Loewe is incredible. And because this behaviour is rewarded more clones keep coming.

 

[KilltheLook]

That IG account used to post thirst traps with a tint of fashion. I wonder what made them decided to become a "fashion critic". What we can all agree on is Phoebe has decided to do everything her way at her own timeframe. So it doesn't matter if her business decisions perplex us. And truly, I don't think she cares that there is an IG influencer writing about her brand in a negative way.

Not related but are you talking about Nice, Lola?

 

[br3ncon1]

I wouldn't say she's a snob, especially for being a mostly independent label. Like any start up brand there's no instant global retail network, no luxury PR machine, and no fast-tracked production. Also it makes sense her retail strategy as luxury doesn’t revolve around five boutiques in Paris anymore. The clientele is everywhere—and Philo knows that. It's scaling up without dilution of her vision.

 

[ecnerretneerg]

I feel like people forget that this brand is literally only 2 years old. Because the PP customer isn’t posting herself wearing it on social media, everyone suddenly has this dense perception that the brand isn’t selling. It took her contemporaries (Khaite, Toteme, Gabriela Hearst, even The Row) years to establish an “look”/aesthetic, open flagship boutiques, stage runway shows, and even advertise their brands. Was the initial launch a bit unorganized? Sure. But, she’s finding her stride quite quickly. Imo, her brand looks very different from old-Celine and what others are designing; plus, there were Phoebe Philo-isms all over the runway last season.

 

[Monsieur Cristobal]

A preview from collection C, Phoebe just gets it.

Like some of you, I am rooting for her, and at the same time I am a little underwhelmed by how things are going.
Her clothes benefit from some reality, like in the first minute of this video. They look really cool. I am ready to accept that this is more special than Toteme, Khaite, The Row, VBeckham, PSchouler, ......... but give me something more than a website, please!

On the other hand, I am divided about the post you are commenting.
I cannot agree with the dismissive tone towards the "getting dirty in multi-brand stores acroos Italian provinces". Clearly this person doesn't know Italy.
Even a small city like Padova in the Veneto region has its own Prada, Hermès, Vuitton stores. The luxury tissue there is only to compare, inside the EU, with the one in France, as Lola pointed. Italian love well done things and quality. Half of the luxury houses are Italian. Historically, they even brought luxury to France through Catherine de Médicis.
So that entitlement was stupid and out of place.

At the same time, I wonder if a store in Paris wouldn't be more cohesive with her project than going wholesale at Galleries Lafayette. You don't need to go to rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré. Just a "hidden" space at le Marais can do.
In the end you are backed by LVMH.

At the beginning, Balenciaga under Nicolas had only the George V store and another one in NY and it felt superexclusive.

And one last thing:
Phoebe, if you are reading this, keep in mind that I am not your final customer. I bought only sunglasses at Céline (and perfumes under Hedi). You don't need to adapt your business strategy to keep me aesthetically entertained.
I know our professional path is not a bed of roses and we all have to pay our taxes.
Sincerely yours.

PS: your FW2015 is one of my favorite collections from last decade.

 

[PDFSD]

Like some of you, I am rooting for her, and at the same time I am a little underwhelmed by how things are going.
Her clothes benefit from some reality, like in the first minute of this video. They look really cool. I am ready to accept that this is more special than Toteme, Khaite, The Row, VBeckham, PSchouler, ......... but give me something more than a website, please!

On the other hand, I am divided about the post you are commenting.
I cannot agree with the dismissive tone towards the "getting dirty in multi-brand stores acroos Italian provinces". Clearly this person doesn't know Italy.
Even a small city like Padova in the Veneto region has its own Prada, Hermès, Vuitton stores. The luxury tissue there is only to compare, inside the EU, with the one in France, as Lola pointed. Italian love well done things and quality. Half of the luxury houses are Italian. Historically, they even brought luxury to France through Catherine de Médicis.
So that entitlement was stupid and out of place.

At the same time, I wonder if a store in Paris wouldn't be more cohesive with her project than going wholesale at Galleries Lafayette. You don't need to go to rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré. Just a "hidden" space at le Marais can do.
In the end you are backed by LVMH.

At the beginning, Balenciaga under Nicolas had only the George V store and another one in NY and it felt superexclusive.

And one last thing:
Phoebe, if you are reading this, keep in mind that I am not your final customer. I bought only sunglasses at Céline (and perfumes under Hedi). You don't need to adapt your business strategy to keep me aesthetically entertained.
I know our professional path is not a bed of roses and we all have to pay our taxes.
Sincerely yours.

PS: your FW2015 is one of my favorite collections from last decade.

At the beginning, Balenciaga under Nicolas had only the George V store and another one in NY and it felt super exclusive.

Balenciaga was sold side by side with margiela etc in multi brand stores back then as well, there were viewer but its still local stores that would cater to locals so the idea that suddenly now its low or less exclusive is myth building nostalgia.

 

[KilltheLook]

Also that IG forgot that it's the local multi brand stores that sometimes help launching a brand to the stratosphere. For example, A'Maree's (one of my favorite stores in the whole world) was the first to carry The Row (and the bought deep). Then people started noticing The Row because if you are at A'Maree's, you are special. Two seasons later, Barneys picked up the brand and the rest was history.

 

[IloveDiorHomme]

Phoebe isn’t a snob ?
Sure…

Selling a stupid basic leather shopper for 6k is the epitome of being snob. No ?
Nothing can justify this price. Nothing.
Even if the leather is uber luxurious, the bag is basic, no special hardware, no special assembly.
It’s supposed be a statement but it’s a big failure.

From what I heard from people shopping on the estore the experience is horrible when you need to get a refund or get something in the correct size. I loved her Céline year but this ego-trip project of hers doesn’t feel right.
And people please don’t be fooled by the « sold-out » effect when the website was launched. It’s easy to label a product being sold-out on some estore without knowing the quantities behind…

 

[br3ncon1]

Phoebe isn’t a snob ?
Sure…

Selling a stupid basic leather shopper for 6k is the epitome of being snob. No ?
Nothing can justify this price. Nothing.
Even if the leather is uber luxurious, the bag is basic, no special hardware, no special assembly.
It’s supposed be a statement but it’s a big failure.

From what I heard from people shopping on the estore the experience is horrible when you need to get a refund or get something in the correct size. I loved her Céline year but this ego-trip project of hers doesn’t feel right.
And people please don’t be fooled by the « sold-out » effect when the website was launched. It’s easy to label a product being sold-out on some estore without knowing the quantities behind…

Right, because in the world of luxury fashion, pricing has always been about hardware and visible complexity. It's worth noting that many luxury brands sell canvas totes or nylon bags at similar price points. This is not a Phoebe specific experience.

 

[Avonlea]

How does selling an overpriced bag make her a snob? I don't get it. If there is a group of people who are willing to spend so much on basic things, why not seize the opportunity? This is a business, not an art project.