Racial Diversity In Modeling

[Bahiyya]

Please don't change feelings towards the brand Yves Saint Laurent. The original designer, Yves Saint Laurent (who is still alive) has done more for Blacks in modeling than any other designer ever. He was the FIRST designer to put black models (mind you, not just one or two) on the Parisian runways. He started the trend for Black models. He TRULY appreciated black beauty. And you know what's so ironic about this situation with Pilati? I have an YSL DVD that goes behind the scenes with Mr YSL (no pilati) and almost all of his clothes were fitted on Black women. In his design studio, 5 out of 6 fitting models were black.

Well, yes, that's part of the reason I felt so good about shopping at YSL (and why I'm finding it very difficult to resist those S/S '08 Prada skirts and shoes ). Unfortunately, Pilati no longer owns or designs for the house so my money is now currently going to an idiot who has no respect for that aspect of Saint Laurent's legacy.

As to your other posts I don't think the moderator's are trying to set up a online fashionista Cuba. But it is true that references to that incident could lead to many issues pertaining to that country that could derail the thread. I'm sure the mods are happy to leave us spitting on Pilati's name, and so forth .

 

[SHSH]

This forum is being run by Cuban dictators and it's really irritating the hell out of me. To the members participating in this topic, why are we not allowed to discuss issues that are relevant to this topic? Why are there a lack of black models in fashion? Does it not come down to political issues that apply to ALL human interactions? Does it not come down to political and social issues such as equal opportunity employment, civil rights, world race relations, and other relevant issues. The fact is that many designers use weight and body types as an excuse to exclude black models. When you discriminate against a group of people for jobs in any other industry , you are violating their civil rights. Unfortunately, this board is being run by French and Cuban lawmakers and prohibit the discussion of issues relevant to this topic. And if we dare speak out about it, we will be deleted and sanctioned. So much for this "community." The Fashion Spot; Where Fashion & Anti-democracy meet.

Exactly! So much ignorance going on on this forum I think it was legitmate for me to talk about the real reasons why black models are treated the way they are in Italy and France, sometimes the truth isnt all that nice.

Fair enough, we shouldnt be anti YSL but i think designers like westwood must be applauded for their common sense.

As for Naomi Campbell i hate when people ignore what shes saying just because she has issues. She speaks the truth, she has opened the door for allot of progress and she has highlighted an important issue. Lets be honest you know this issue really just reflects how more cohesive we need to be as a society and more encompassing of different forms of beauty and cultures
!

 

[ApertureRomance]

That's what I mean I don't understand why this is in the rumour has it forum , ok the thread stems from something that Naomi Campbell said , but the fact is with or without her statement racism exists and I'd like to think that this is a forum where we can discuss it , placing it in this forum places it alongside such pressing issues and news as Miley Cyrus. :/

I've had my comments deleted in this thread merely because I tried to keep the discussion on topic and not let her recent arrest colour the discussion here I don't feel it is relevant.

 

[ChristionCouture]

Speaking of Pilati's ridiculous comments and Naomi's outcry, they were out and about recently at the MET opening galla...

Source: Style.com



Pilati has featured NO BLACK WOMEN in either of his runway shows this year. I wonder if Naomi talked with him about this.

 

[Bahiyya]

Maybe he wouldn't have been able to focus on the topic because of her HUGE HIPS. Look at them! I can't even see Pilati's hand.

 

[janznote]

Ha Ha

Maybe he wouldn't have been able to focus on the topic because of her HUGE HIPS. Look at them! I can't even see Pilati's hand.

Too funny.

 

[Jacque Marcel]

Speaking of Pilati's ridiculous comments and Naomi's outcry, they were out and about recently at the MET opening galla...



Pilati has featured NO BLACK WOMEN in either of his runway shows this year. I wonder if Naomi talked with him about this.

Chanel Iman walked S/S 08...

 

[ChristionCouture]

If anyone is interested, I've uploaded some clips from the YSL movie. I'll upload some more when I get time.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asfuJS6vN7c

 

[fashionista-ta]

Please don't change feelings towards the brand Yves Saint Laurent. The original designer, Yves Saint Laurent (who is still alive) has done more for Blacks in modeling than any other designer ever. He was the FIRST designer to put black models (mind you, not just one or two) on the Parisian runways. He started the trend for Black models. He TRULY appreciated black beauty. And you know what's so ironic about this situation with Pilati? I have an YSL DVD that goes behind the scenes with Mr YSL (no pilati) and almost all of his clothes were fitted on Black women. In his design studio, 5 out of 6 fitting models were black.

That's quite interesting ...

In my mind, Pilati was probably just being honest, but I don't see the correspondence between fit models and runway models They're completely different, no?

Not to mention the fact that Africa is an entire continent, plus there's a huge African multiracial diaspora, which means there is considerably more than one black body type, not all of which include hips ...

Actually, I'm not sure Pilati was being honest. Rather than hips, perhaps he really meant booty? Because there are a great many Caucasian women with hips ... I am one of them

I would actually be quite interested in hearing more from someone who knows quite a bit more about fit models than I do. I presume that you would try to match your fit models to your target market(s) in terms of body type ... fill me in here ...

 

[ChristionCouture]

That's quite interesting ...

In my mind, Pilati was probably just being honest, but I don't see the correspondence between fit models and runway models They're completely different, no?

Not to mention the fact that Africa is an entire continent, plus there's a huge African multiracial diaspora, which means there is considerably more than one black body type, not all of which include hips ...

Actually, I'm not sure Pilati was being honest. Rather than hips, perhaps he really meant booty? Because there are a great many Caucasian women with hips ... I am one of them

I would actually be quite interested in hearing more from someone who knows quite a bit more about fit models than I do. I presume that you would try to match your fit models to your target market(s) in terms of body type ... fill me in here ...

Fit models are usually different from runway models. There really aren't any set rules and every company does it different. Runway models are expensive and fitting models are not. Some companies hire slim "models" as muses to execute their runway vision on a human being in addition to a dress form. They see how the fabric and cut works, moves, and drapes on an actual person. Some also use an average sized human being to execute a more realistic commercial fit for mass production. The average-sized human being used for a fitting can be either an actual employee of the company (with the right measurements), or an actual model hired from a modeling agency for fittings only. The modeling agency fitting models are usually not up to the standards of a working runway or editorial model. There are always exceptions and those standards are arguable. What Pilati said wasn't the "truth" because he has not met and measured every black woman in the world. Every black woman doesn't live in Africa and every black woman doesn't have "big" hips. So do you understand how much of an insult his comment was? He basically said Black women aren't even able to be fitting models, let alone runway models. A double smack in the face. It was such an ignorant statement and a stereotype.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I hear you ... I try not to be insulted by ignorant/illogical comments, but I can certainly understand how people could find this insulting.

It sounds to me like he/they made a bad hiring decision with a single fit model, who happened to be black, and he's extrapolating to runway models and the entire industry from there ... which is where it all breaks down. But I think he was calling it like he saw it (however unclearly).

 

[jjbunny79]

I would just regard Pilati comment as lazy, unprofessional and clearly a whiny dumb bee-yatch imo. I mean he is a fashion designer, if he thinks his client has a big butt (based on his statement), THEN USE HIS FREAKEN SKILL TO FLATTER THAT BUTT! dont tell me his just gonna refuse the client with a curvy butt. otherwise why in the galaxy he learning about fashion design?

ok end of whining. feel free to delete this thread for the hinting potty-mouth-ness.

 

[iluvjeisa]

A contentious matter...but isn't it conceivable that there are other physiological differences between the hip shape distribution of dark-pigmented people and light pigmented people? What he said doesn't mean that dark-pigmented people are fat, it just means that their shape of hips is different.

It would certainly appear to me that the largest hips I've seen have been on white women and the smallest I've seen (aside from "Asians") have been on black women. But then, there could, as I said, be structural differences that are not obvious, unless you take measurements. On average - we're talking about a distribution of people.

That said, as long as there is an unwillingness to fit different sizes and shapes, it's hard to see how there will be much diversity on the runway. On the other hand, the clothes will be available in sizes that are acceptable to all slim people, regardless of ethnicity, so perhaps it's really not that important....

 

[Bahiyya]

^ It's not a contentious matter for high fashion designers. In fact, for Pilati's statement it isn't even a matter of averages or "distribution". What percentage of women of any race are used in the modelling world? It's minuscule. Certainly enough modelesque fit or runway black models to suit ol' Pilati's strict tape-measured standards. Therefore it's clear he's trading in on a stereotype. And he not only mentioned weight he said there weren't enough "beautiful" ones either.

Certainly the Caucasians aren't so naturally thin anyway. There's a huge Eastern European population in my area and Canada in general and they come in far more diverse shapes than the Snejanas.

 

[iluvjeisa]

^Well, since it's unusual with girls who are both very thin and beautiful, and there are few black models available, it's not that strange that he would find it difficult. He isn't a scouting models - he's just choosing from what he's shown.

So perhaps agents should go through the trouble and understand that it's not just thinness but also the shape of the hips that is of importance, and recruit the black models who do fit these proportions. Surely they're out there.

Anyway, I think he phrased this quite poorly. He made it sound like black women have bigger hips and that's clearly not true at all in the general sense. I think what he's really talking about is the rather common flat upper butt on white women - not generally considered a great asset and in fact subject to many work out sessions. That has nothing to do with slender or not slender - it's a matter of structure and muscles.

Btw, in the 70s the Paris runway was quite diverse - no lack of black models there. Even in the early 90s - the models seemed to have quite different sizes - I don't think Cindy Crawford was ever a clothes hanger figure. So why does everyone suddenly have to have hips that are exactly the same size?

 

[smartarse]

^Btw, in the 70s the Paris runway was quite diverse - no lack of black models there. Even in the early 90s - the models seemed to have quite different sizes - I don't think Cindy Crawford was ever a clothes hanger figure. So why does everyone suddenly have to have hips that are exactly the same size?

i have said this about 2+ years ago in one of tfs's forum................. some of you were just a "thought" or an egg in your mother's womb when the Fall of the Berlin Wall occurred and the following year , i believe, is when the two Germany were reunited as one, thus, the fall of communism opened its borders to the Western world where model scouts and the fashion industry discovered its new crop of models who paved the way for the super tall, super lean/thin, ivory skin Eastern European girls who the fashion world have come to know as high fashion models that strut blue chip shows of NY, Milan and the grand dame of fashion - Paris. then, just few years go the Baby Doll/alien models was all the hype and favorites, thanks to Gemma who paved that way for a much younger and uniquely tall, boyish figures that have been the latest craze in the modeling industry.

 

[jjbunny79]

A contentious matter...but isn't it conceivable that there are other physiological differences between the hip shape distribution of dark-pigmented people and light pigmented people? What he said doesn't mean that dark-pigmented people are fat, it just means that their shape of hips is different.

It would certainly appear to me that the largest hips I've seen have been on white women and the smallest I've seen (aside from "Asians") have been on black women. But then, there could, as I said, be structural differences that are not obvious, unless you take measurements. On average - we're talking about a distribution of people.

That said, as long as there is an unwillingness to fit different sizes and shapes, it's hard to see how there will be much diversity on the runway. On the other hand, the clothes will be available in sizes that are acceptable to all slim people, regardless of ethnicity, so perhaps it's really not that important....

my point was that pilati is a fashion designer and and a fashion designer (or photographer), i believe, should know how to visually deflate a person's "big butt" instead of saying "omg i dunno how to work with those hip/butt because they are so big/this is just annoying" or anything in similar fashion.

this is not just not about a african women's hip vs. other women's hip or racist/stereotype anything like that (speaking from a asian with a bubblebutt and mid-built). it is just the fact that pilati should know that not everyone in world shapes like girls on runway and he should know how to work with different shapes.

 

[iluvjeisa]

i have said this about 2+ years ago in one of tfs's forum................. some of you were just a "thought" or an egg in your mother's womb when the Fall of the Berlin Wall occurred and the following year , i believe, is when the two Germany were reunited as one, thus, the fall of communism opened its borders to the Western world where model scouts and the fashion industry discovered its new crop of models who paved the way for the super tall, super lean/thin, ivory skin Eastern European girls who the fashion world have come to know as high fashion models that strut blue chip shows of NY, Milan and the grand dame of fashion - Paris. then, just few years go the Baby Doll/alien models was all the hype and favorites, thanks to Gemma who paved that way for a much younger and uniquely tall, boyish figures that have been the latest craze in the modeling industry.

And in the 70s....Scandinavian models were scouted in a similar way....and yet....there was a place for black models on the runway. Interesting!

 

[ChristionCouture]

I was just browsing through the forums and I came across a comment that made me cringe a little bit. Someone said that Eva Mendes had a beauty that was "full of wildness." I wonder why non-white people are often considered to be "wild" or "exotic." LOL I'm sure this person's comment was NOT made to offend anyone, but it's just disappointing to know that people still think of non-whites as animalistic. "Wild" is a word you would use to describe an animal. No? I'm sure everyone knows what it means, but just take a look at how the dictionary defines it. I've noticed the fashion industry loves to make spectacles of non-whites. Give them hair like a lion (an animal). Insist on a fierce face (like an angry animal - ready to attack) Put them in a jungle type setting. Insist on overt sexuality. Why can't non-whites just be pretty? Why wild? Why exotic? Why sexy?

 

[Bahiyya]

Yes, I cringed when watching Australia's Next Top Model and the only black girl in the group was given the "jungle girl" role . I'm sure they meant no offense but... honestly.