Sabato De Sarno - Designer

[LadyJunon]

Blink twice if you're being held hostage.

I agree it's a very short-term decision, to release immediate pressure, or they are very confident on their new structure (De Sarno, Palus, Bellettini). But they already had very risky turnovers previously which turned out to be successful for a while: Daniel Lee, Demna, Michele (which was a 180° departure from Giannini) so I give them the benefit of the doubt.

To be fair, the success behind those rebrands came from a mix of those designers having a pulse on the Zeitgeist and Kering-level budgets. The hiring team was an extremely good, but management seems to be an absolute mess.

 

[yslforever]

View attachment 1233584
Blink twice if you're being held hostage.


To be fair, the success behind those rebrands came from a mix of those designers having a pulse on the Zeitgeist and Kering-level budgets. The hiring team was an extremely good, but management seems to be an absolute mess.

Bizarri and Belletteni are good, the shareholders' demands are the issues. Mayhoola entering Kering as the "white knight" to prevent later take-overs... interesting ... that's how Bernard Arnault raided Louis Vuitton and Moet-Hennessy from the founding families 35 years ago.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

I feel like PPP's departure is eminent.

 

[Nimsay]

goodness. Why didnt they just buy YSL beauty then. They are on track to spend how many billion on V? Kering needs to give Loreal their money. YSL beauty seems like a sure bet for revenue versus Valentino.

I dont know why Gucci burns bridges with designers. Michele shouldve been shifted to another role in-house or been promoted. If they do buy Valentino they have another rudderless house in need of a visionary designer.

 

[Lola701]

I agree it's a very short-term decision, to release immediate pressure, or they are very confident on their new structure (De Sarno, Palus, Bellettini). But they already had very risky turnovers previously which turned out to be successful for a while: Daniel Lee, Demna, Michele (which was a 180° departure from Giannini) so I give them the benefit of the doubt.

One thing is that they thrives through adversity but I think that the current KERING formula is more fragile than the previous one installed by Dom and Tom.

I loved Daniel Lee and I like the work of Blazy but ultimately, Bottega Veneta went from a house modeled after Hermes to a regular fashion house with the challenges fashion houses have to face.

Hermes used the mystique around them to create a sort of marketing strategy…Because they didn’t have one per say. In a way now they have found the perfect formula to sell their products that I think no one else will ever manage to duplicate.

We see what happens when multiple brands have issues at the same time. It’s tough to recover…
Gucci is slowing in sales, Balenciaga is still going through the scandal, Bottega Veneta is selling (as it should sell actually) but it’s not the massive growth they wants…

And the problem is that having issues with the top brands prevent from investing into others ventures. We see how LVMH is investing into Haute Joaillerie and watchmaking. KERING is now catching up with the « Parfumerie de Niche ». Every major brand at LVMH has it niche operation of fragrances (not so niche actually).

They have sold Girard Perregaux and Ulysse Nardin when they could have done a great rebranding with those brands. We see how agressive LVMH are with their marketing with Tiffany and Bulgari. Where are Pomellato and Boucheron?

Valentino is a beautiful brand but it’s quite difficult to imagine what they could do in terms of vision.

 

[Lola701]

goodness. Why didnt they just buy YSL beauty then. They are on track to spend how many billion on V? Kering needs to give Loreal their money. YSL beauty seems like a sure bet for revenue versus Valentino.

They were foolish for selling it back then…Bit that’s what happen when you think short term…

It’s more like L’Oreal don’t want to separate from the brand. And they are right!
Even if they have killed the portfolio of YSL imo.

 

[Nimsay]

They were foolish for selling it back then…Bit that’s what happen when you think short term…

It’s more like L’Oreal don’t want to separate from the brand. And they are right!
Even if they have killed the portfolio of YSL imo.

bernard arnault would figure out a way to buy LOreal.

LVMH is fundamentally better run than Kering with - usually - incredibly astute management.


Youre right that shifting Bottegas focus was a misstep.

Youre right about Haute Joiallerie - it is a smart move because precious stones and metals hold value. YSL and Bottega both need it. Considering they do own Boucheron there is no reason not to. Im sure Boucheron atelier isnt that busy.

I still think Kering should be focusing on HC because that gets them entanglement with more Billionaires. The amount of Billionaires that are customers of Dior prob helps Bernard out tremendously when its time for loans. Also LV doesnt have an HC so Gucci HC would beaf them to market.

 

[Lola701]

bernard arnault would figure out a way to buy LOreal.

LVMH is fundamentally better run than Kering with - usually - incredibly astute management.


Youre right that shifting Bottegas focus was a misstep.

Youre right about Haute Joiallerie - it is a smart move because precious stones and metals hold value. YSL and Bottega both need it. Considering they do own Boucheron there is no reason not to. Im sure Boucheron atelier isnt that busy.

I still think Kering should be focusing on HC because that gets them entanglement with more Billionaires. The amount of Billionaires that are customers of Dior prob helps Bernard out tremendously when its time for loans. Also LV doesnt have an HC so Gucci HC would beaf them to market.

Lol. I get what you mean but L’Oreal is another shark.
Arnault was able to fool Henry Racamier and some members of the extended « Hermes family » by being the agent of chaos he knows how to be and by taking advantage of people’s ego but L’Oreal is different mainly because they have the same sharks there and also because Betancourt herself doesn’t manage the brand. It’s a more difficult entity to own…

But Arnault was clever because he understood a lot of things by being the president of Dior. I don’t think any LVMH brand has it beauty operations outside of the group.

‘The irony with buying Valentino is that L’Oreal is also behind Valentino Beauty..

 

[yslforever]

Lol. I get what you mean but L’Oreal is another shark.
Arnault was able to fool Henry Racamier and some members of the extended « Hermes family » by being the agent of chaos he knows how to be and by taking advantage of people’s ego but L’Oreal is different mainly because they have the same sharks there and also because Betancourt herself doesn’t manage the brand. It’s a more difficult entity to own…

But Arnault was clever because he understood a lot of things by being the president of Dior. I don’t think any LVMH brand has it beauty operations outside of the group.

‘The irony with buying Valentino is that L’Oreal is also behind Valentino Beauty..

Lilianne Bettencourt is under conservatorship now. But she is to be credited for picking the CEOs which enormously expanded L'Oréal (François Dalle and then Lindays Owen-Jones).
Now her eldest grandson, Jean-Victor Meyers, holds the reins, picks the CEO and is very much hands-on (last time I checked he was visiting plants all around the world).
But with a net worth of 90 billions (and they are just 4 people), they have absolutely no reasons to sell anything. Plus Nestlé (yuck) is the second shareholder and they have a shareholder pact (which possibly include some call or put options).
Potentially, it could become YSL Beauty or Valentino Beauty by Nestlé Beauty (yuck again), before LVMH or Kering could move.
I am reasonably certain there is also an agreement between Armani and L'Oréal for when the maestro will pass. The Meyers and the Armanis are very close now, even vacationing together.

I agree Kering lacks a lot of in-house products like: joaillerie, high joaillerie, haute couture, beauty... and they lack strategy, mainly because they have no vision, and only see the next two quarters, while LVMH and Hermès strategists think 2 decades in the future.
Chanel is also guilty right now of having no vision, the Wertheimer bros never had one and are vaguely interested, the real thinker also was Eliane Heillbronn, and all the very good people she picked for Chanel (who now must be disappointed by the state of the company, see Maureen Chiquet going to be board member of Kering)

 

[Lola701]

Lilianne Bettencourt is under conservatorship now. But she is to be credited for picking the CEOs which enormously expanded L'Oréal (François Dalle and then Lindays Owen-Jones).
Now her eldest grandson, Jean-Victor Meyers, holds the reins, picks the CEO and is very much hands-on (last time I checked he was visiting plants all around the world).
But with a net worth of 90 billions (and they are just 4 people), they have absolutely no reasons to sell anything. Plus Nestlé (yuck) is the second shareholder and they have a shareholder pact (which possibly include some call or put options).
Potentially, it could become YSL Beauty or Valentino Beauty by Nestlé Beauty (yuck again), before LVMH or Kering could move.
I am reasonably certain there is also an agreement between Armani and L'Oréal for when the maestro will pass. The Meyers and the Armanis are very close now, even vacationing together.

I agree Kering lacks a lot of in-house products like: joaillerie, high joaillerie, haute couture, beauty... and they lack strategy, mainly because they have no vision, and only see the next two quarters, while LVMH and Hermès strategists think 2 decades in the future.
Chanel is also guilty right now of having no vision, the Wertheimer bros never had one and are vaguely interested, the real thinker also was Eliane Heillbronn, and all the very good people she picked for Chanel (who now must be disappointed by the state of the company, see Maureen Chiquet going to be board member of Kering)

Liliane died but is Françoise involved outside of the board of direction? I mean her mother was more of a socialite and fortunately her husband was very hands-on…

Yes what’s going on at Chanel is alarming indeed. We see now why having Jacques Helleu and Karl Lagerfeld as creative directors did for the brand. The business was at the service of the creativity…
Now, everything feels very corporate and some things don’t work. You see now that the current creative directors aren’t that.

Yes les Dumas never lost the plot. They knew their strength and their weaknesses and used everything at their advantage. We can all debate about the creative excitement but the standards of quality are the best and all their categories exudes luxury.

 

[LadyJunon]

My Uneducated Thoughts on Kering/Artemis

Alexander McQueen:
I have no idea on how McQueen is doing in terms of sales, because I never hear much news or interviews from the house. Saying that, Sarah Burton is still going strong. I do have a hunch that she'll be leaving soon. These days, 13 years is a very long time for a tenure at a house that isn't under your name.

Balenciaga:
Still suffering from the scandal, but full of potential. Kering needs to replace Demna and lay low for a couple of seasons to fully shake off Demna's fanbase. From there, the house can re-establish a new identity. Balenciaga seems to do better when they're less aesthetically conventional (Ghesquière/Demna), so a set identity could do more harm than good. That said, they'll definitely need a forward-thinking creative director and CEO who can produce accessories that be reissued and remodelled

Bottega Veneta:
Lee's tenure pushed Bottega into the extremely trend, pop space. That said, Blazy's tenure could throw it back into that "Hermès, Zegna space" where it can exist relatively independently of the huge chunk of fashion.

Brioni:
The house is easily forgettable at best, which might not be a good thing in Kering's eyes. That said, it does give Kering a chance to potentially turn the house into a sort of "Zegna/Agnona" or even a "Hermès" if they're ambitious enough.

Courrèges:
The relaunch of Courrèges is doing well and Di Felice was smart to do the Rééditions collection to stabilise the house as quickly as possible, but it's a matter of whether that will keep going after he departs.

Giambattista Valli:
Valli has expressed wanting to "create a house that outlives him". It's possible, but it means that he'll really need to create a more trans-generational vision to accommodate his young clientele as they start to hit their 40s, 50s and 60s. Pushing his bags further into the mainstream could help too.

Gucci:
A good front house for Kering, but a corporate mess. Due to the lack of a strong brand identity, Gucci having one full year of collections without a creative director did more harm than good. They need to use Sabato's tenure to establish a permanent identity that can survive creative director changes, a permanent bag/accessory offering should do the trick. They should also consider shifting some of their dependance on Gucci onto Saint Laurent and Bottega Veneta, who are doing much better overall.

Valentino:
Valentino has a very unique house, but shares a lot of the same issues as Gucci along with sharing the potential issue of having an overly young look with Valli. Valentino will need to start centering an older, more stable clientele soon with a more permanent vision.

Yves Saint Laurent:
The seamless transition between Slimane and Vaccarello (a decade plus combined), along with the shift to a more mature clientele has granted Saint Laurent steady, substantial sales and brand loyalty. Vaccarello has been at Saint Laurent for almost 7½ years. He'll surpass Pilati in terms of tenure length in March and will probably stay a few years after that. That said, he will eventually leave and I hope Kering is already taking that into consideration.

 

[style_expert]

Isn't there a sort of general Business of Fashion thread we can move the most recent posts and the discussion to?
Since they're no longer about Sabato de Sarno or Gucci per se.
I think it would be worthwhile to continue the discussion about the state of fashion from a business/conglomerate point of view. It seems like this topic is discussed in seperate threads here and there (also the future of Chanel etc, would be interesting to combine it all in one thread).

 

[Nimsay]

The whole idea of Alta Moda comes from Gucci not really having Business mens suits anymore. I think that was a mistake. I thought Gucci really needs an Alta Sartoria since rich men spend on suiting. Then - while theyre at it - they could show an Alta Moda too.

Sabato would be well served to take Micheles look and just give it a heavy edit. The fundamental cuts and shapes from his tenure are good. Change fabrics, change colors. Reduce Lurex. Maybe try to find new Guccissima textile like how LV is always reimagining the Monogram. Gucci should be Italian Ralph Lauren in this iteration. Sabato can definitely do that - Im sure his cuts and fitting are excellent.


Its not the old money asthetic. fashion is returning to the old look. People wanted to look rich in designer clothes. The 2000-2020 period featured a deconstructionist attitude that changed the fashion landscape a lot. Luxury houses doing gorgeous shapes in boring grays and beiges is what fashion has always been.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Back to de Sarno.

It seems to me that Gucci's expectations are unreasonable and that current management will not hesitate to throw him under the bus if they don't get immediate results---which is messed up because they had him do a project so they know exactly what it's going to look like.

I would almost pity him but he's being paid so much money that I don't feel bad at all.

Three years of Gucci and he can retire. Even if he loses, he wins.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

While Gucci might not be growing like LV it is still making BILLIONS even on autopilot.

 

[LadyJunon]

Isn't there a sort of general Business of Fashion thread we can move the most recent posts and the discussion to?
Since they're no longer about Sabato de Sarno or Gucci per se.
I think it would be worthwhile to continue the discussion about the state of fashion from a business/conglomerate point of view. It seems like this topic is discussed in seperate threads here and there (also the future of Chanel etc, would be interesting to combine it all in one thread).

Doing this right now: The State of Kering

I put it in "Fashion in Depth" so it can sit happily next to the Prada and Chanel discussion threads. The admins can go all the post moving if they want.

 

[callmejaeden]

His latest instagram post at Chateau Marmont, possibly something for Gucci?

 

[LadyJunon]

His latest instagram post at Chateau Marmont, possibly something for Gucci?

Perhaps a location for a adv campaign or a pre-collection lookbook.

 

[callmejaeden]

 

[Salvatore]

I think I like this Gucci already.