So is animal leather really a “by-product” or a “co-product”, and what are the best alternatives?

[nationalsalt]

I cannot seem to find an objective answer as to whether animal leather is merely repurposed waste from animals killed for their meat, or if it’s an integral part of the supply chain economy.

Figures like Stella McCartney and PETA are adamant that leather is a co-product of animal farming and that “by-product” claims are false.

The leather industry on the other hand, perhaps unsurprisingly, is adamant that animal leather is in fact a by-product, and that any claims to the contrary are false.

So what is the truth?

Secondly, there are so many leather alternatives now being made from pineapples, grapes, cork, rubber, shrimps etc. But some are apparently also mixed with / coated in plastic, which somewhat reduces their ethical / sustainable credentials.

Does anyone have experience with these and can you speak on their quality / composition?

 

[KoV]

Is shrimp leather more ethical than calf leather? (From a cruelty standpoint, I mean. A living creature is a living creature. A shrimp can have a rich, full, experiential life too, right? lol)

Anyway, I believe most but not all leather comes from animals who are also farmed for meat. Someone gets alligator stew, someone else gets a Ricky bag in alligator. Win win!

 

[TerraVera]

are you here trying to find content, sources, arguments, points, and answers for a school essay or article be it a university, local, national, or international newspaper or global media platform?

most of your threads appear as transparent information harvesting because you don't have the resourcefulness to find/email/call the right people irl to help you complete your writing or meet your deadline.

why are you really here on tfs?

 

[nationalsalt]

are you here trying to find content, sources, arguments, points, and answers for a school essay or article be it a university, local, national, or international newspaper or global media platform?

most of your threads appear as transparent information harvesting because you don't have the resourcefulness to find/email/call the right people irl to help you complete your writing or meet your deadline.

why are you really here on tfs?

Thank you for your interest in my life, but I have no assignments due for school or work. I'm considering career options and would like to know more about various topics.

Given that this is a fashion forum, I assumed it might be the right place to ask relevant questions from people in the know. Apologies if I was mistaken.

 

[runner]

if what you describe about stella, tannery, etc are right, those should be their opinions rather than truth.
one ignores, for example, bear leather and the other can say so, ignoring snakes etc.
when anyone is being adamant, there is a possibility that they are adamant with discriminating forgetfulness.

"We see subjectively, not objectively; what we are capable of seeing, not what there is to be seen. It is not wonderful that we make so many bad guesses at that prismatic thing, the truth."
alfred gardiner

 

[runner]

now, for some designers, fake leather or leather is the question of effects. there can be when they think leather leaves something to be desired, when they want something else, something that feels different, like major seventh. in that situation, they can make it up artificially.

 

[tigerrouge]

Across most levels of fashion, products labelled as "vegan leather" are highly likely to be polyurethane (PU), and regardless of whether you use these items to death or leave them sitting untouched on a shelf for display, any PU element starts to degrade after a while. It seems to self-destruct on an internal timer.

While research into alternative textiles is very needed, the experimental nature of these 'leathers' means I would personally be unlikely to take the risk of spending the four-figure sums usually asked by designers for their bags on any 'eco' item because of the as-yet-undefined lifespan e.g. will the novel textile be more affected by mould or mildew, will it remain stable over a decade or experience degradation of colour, texture etc?

If buying leather means I buy less, because those bags last well enough to serve their purpose for years, if not decades, I've probably reached the best compromise currently available to me, economically, ecologically and in terms of morals.

 

[nationalsalt]

Across most levels of fashion, products labelled as "vegan leather" are highly likely to be polyurethane (PU), and regardless of whether you use these items to death or leave them sitting untouched on a shelf for display, any PU element starts to degrade after a while. It seems to self-destruct on an internal timer.

While research into alternative textiles is very needed, the experimental nature of these 'leathers' means I would personally be unlikely to take the risk of spending the four-figure sums usually asked by designers for their bags on any 'eco' item because of the as-yet-undefined lifespan e.g. will the novel textile be more affected by mould or mildew, will it remain stable over a decade or experience degradation of colour, texture etc?

If buying leather means I buy less, because those bags last well enough to serve their purpose for years, if not decades, I've probably reached the best compromise currently available to me, economically, ecologically and in terms of morals.

Good point re: the experimental nature of alternative textiles! That might the most sensible approach until they have been tested over time.

 

[nationalsalt]

Is shrimp leather more ethical than calf leather? (From a cruelty standpoint, I mean. A living creature is a living creature. A shrimp can have a rich, full, experiential life too, right? lol)

Anyway, I believe most but not all leather comes from animals who are also farmed for meat. Someone gets alligator stew, someone else gets a Ricky bag in alligator. Win win!

Good point - they seem to be marketing shrimp leather as a true by-product of the seafood industry made from discarded shells, but I guess this is the same argument the cow leather industry uses.

On the plus side, one of the shrimp leather companies claims it is totally plastic-free, unlike some of the grape / pineapple etc. alternatives.

 

[tourbillions]

im not spending anything more than 10$ on fake leather or fake fur. no alternatives, tanneries have a rich history and culture which should continue. Same for furriers. seems fashion designers are starting to be lab grown as well with the amount of boring and lifeless collections being made, this is the real issue. Good leathers going to the hands of ancora guy or kim jones.

 

[avonlea002]

im not spending anything more than 10$ on fake leather or fake fur. no alternatives, tanneries have a rich history and culture which should continue. Same for furriers. seems fashion designers are starting to be lab grown as well with the amount of boring and lifeless collections being made, this is the real issue. Good leathers going to the hands of ancora guy or kim jones.

This. Brands changing real fur and leather for some plastic bullsh*t yet charging the same prices.

 

[blueorchid]

This. Brands changing real fur and leather for some plastic bullsh*t yet charging the same prices.

But… but… sustainability 🥺 🍃

 

[TerraVera]

Thank you for your interest in my life, but I have no assignments due for school or work. I'm considering career options and would like to know more about various topics.

Given that this is a fashion forum, I assumed it might be the right place to ask relevant questions from people in the know. Apologies if I was mistaken.

i hope fashion remains a curious hobby of yours because it is certainly not your forté or path in life

 

[Cute]

 

[nationalsalt]

i hope fashion remains a curious hobby of yours because it is certainly not your forté or path in life

Thank you for the generous advice. So kind.

 

[runner]

while I like leather and don't have any fake leather items, here are a few facts.

it's not like coated LV canvas is especially tricky to deal with.

if you want to change cartier straps, their fake leather (apple?) is the most friendly priced in the options.

helmut lang there wanted to make the show look artificially cold and hard. but the use of leather tends to make it natural and somewhat warm. so he used the fake leather made from cotton/polyurethane. and red was the key color in that season. in those days, leather took red in particular ways. so, to harmonize coloring with other red pieces made of other materials, it had to be fake leather. outside of the show, leather jackets were available at the showroom. fake leather was inexpensive in comparison with leather.


catwalking

 

[runner]

"The care and tests that we devote to Cartier leather watch-straps ensure that they are of the highest quality, enjoying in normal conditions of use an average lifespan of twenty-four months. However, contact with water or any other liquid may accelerate wear and tear on the strap."
from cartier/us

in this specific case of using it as a watch strap, it seems that it's not a question of which one lives longer (or less short).
probably if it is used under this climate of tokyo, their fake leather is likely to last a bit longer.

 

[philophile]

are you here trying to find content, sources, arguments, points, and answers for a school essay or article be it a university, local, national, or international newspaper or global media platform?

most of your threads appear as transparent information harvesting because you don't have the resourcefulness to find/email/call the right people irl to help you complete your writing or meet your deadline.

why are you really here on tfs?

I fail to understand the hostility. It's absolutely uncalled for, especially when we are on a sub called 'Fashion in Depth', when we get to discuss the very real aspects and consequences of fashion. Not everybody has the resourcefulness to find/email/call the right people and if they did, then this sub wouldn't exist. Have in mind lots of people who are not fashion industry insiders are reading this forum.

Personally, I appreciate all the topics @nationalsalt has brought into discussion. Ironically, there is a reason why we all opened this thread and it started a meaningful conversation.

Regarding faux leather vs real leather, it's better to go for brands that are actually upcycling/recycling real leather or ones that make a very, very durable type of fake leather. I've had most of the time the worst experience with fake leather, since it creases easily, besides basically looking like plastic, which is not a good look. It's eventually food for the trashcan and more poison to the environment. I bought 4 years ago a Nanushka (sustainabilty driven independent label) fake leather skirt and now it's creased and even stained from being folded together with other leather pieces.

My conclusion is that you have to be picky with your fake leather. The faux leather pieces I own that have lasted many years and are still flawlessly conserved are from a couple of brands from Tbilisi, Georgia: Materiel and Aleksandre Akhalkatsishvili (the latter is the designer of both), brands that have developed their very own variety of extremely durable and structured ecoleather.

 

[nationalsalt]

I fail to understand the hostility. It's absolutely uncalled for, especially when we are on a sub called 'Fashion in Depth', when we get to discuss the very real aspects and consequences of fashion. Not everybody has the resourcefulness to find/email/call the right people and if they did, then this sub wouldn't exist. Have in mind lots of people who are not fashion industry insiders are reading this forum.

Personally, I appreciate all the topics @nationalsalt has brought into discussion. Ironically, there is a reason why we all opened this thread and it started a meaningful conversation.

Regarding faux leather vs real leather, it's better to go for brands that are actually upcycling/recycling real leather or ones that make a very, very durable type of fake leather. I've had most of the time the worst experience with fake leather, since it creases easily, besides basically looking like plastic, which is not a good look. It's eventually food for the trashcan and more poison to the environment. I bought 4 years ago a Nanushka (sustainabilty driven independent label) fake leather skirt and now it's creased and even stained from being folded together with other leather pieces.

My conclusion is that you have to be picky with your fake leather. The faux leather pieces I own that have lasted many years and are still flawlessly conserved are from a couple of brands from Tbilisi, Georgia: Materiel and Aleksandre Akhalkatsishvili (the latter is the designer of both), brands that have developed their very own variety of extremely durable and structured ecoleather.

Thanks for your message @philophile, I appreciate your words and thoughts re: faux leather. I was actually eyeing a Nanushka jacket recently but your review gives me pause for thought!

I will check out those other brands you recommended too