The 'Outfit Look-Alikes' Thread

[jeanclaude]

Nico is back to his roots...

 

[lookatme]

daniel is really out here copying everyone except elsa...

I know, right? Does he have some kind of weird aversion to the actual archives? Not that he needs to be a slave to it, but I don't think I've seen a single reference to ACTUAL Elsa Schiaparelli designs (aside from the typical, superficial cliches (lobster, etc). But we've seen plenty Gaultier, Lacroix, Galliano, Mugler, Montana, YSL, Claude Lalanne...literally EVERYONE else but Elsa.

 

[Gaultier_Bandit]

NG having that many copy and paste moments is comical, considering how everyone reveres him….had that been the case for someone like Virgirl (RIP) the comments would have been crazy. I remember that one Walter collection he did at LV

 

[gallianostan]

Dior Couture SS 1999 by John Galliano vs Margiela 2024 by John Galliano
View attachment 1268898

the original is incredible. the new one is bad. the flounce at the bottom feels so much more languid and romantic; it's a bit more streamlined and less cartoony than the margiela one, which has more of a basic mermaid tail. the fabrics used by the dior one also look like liquid gold or lava. there's an oily richness to it, like it's mercurial. but the original colours are just such a standout. they're so beautiful and dynamic. the margiela colours are too close to complement each other in any way, and really make it look tacky af. the dior version genuinely feels like a considered, sculpted work of art out of a completely different time. the margiela 'update' just pales in comparison, like a gimmicky costume. what a colossal letdown lol

 

[UltimateF1]

EDIT:
Dior Couture SS 1999 by John Galliano vs Margiela 2024 by John Galliano

Also adding Yevonde photographs from 1950s-1960s that were references for Dior Couture SS 1999 collection

 

[imjustken]

NG having that many copy and paste moments is comical, considering how everyone reveres him

Nobody can always come up with original ideas and nobody should pretend like they do ...

 

[Lola701]

NG having that many copy and paste moments is comical, considering how everyone reveres him….had that been the case for someone like Virgirl (RIP) the comments would have been crazy. I remember that one Walter collection he did at LV

Every designer does.
You would be surprised to learn that most of Azzedine’s iconic designs and foundations of his aesthetic are total copies.
Yves copied a lot and so are others.
Good designers appropriate those copies to turn them into something more or else. Others just copy and paste.

 

[gallianostan]

ngl the best designers copy, there's nothing wrong with it imo as long as it's done well. but istg when i saw that adrian/hepburn ripoff... the scream i scrumpt. the cackle i cackled. the guffaw i guffawed. never change nicolas!

 

[Kennnnn]

It's funny that he didn't learn from the Kaisik Wong episode.

 

[Lola701]

It's funny that he didn't learn from the Kaisik Wong episode.

What is there to learn though?

 

[Kennnnn]

What is there to learn though?

When making a copy of someone else's work, perhaps to identify, acknowledge and in some way credit the creator of the work.

It hurt particularly for creatives of Asian descent (and those who respected Kaisik and his legacy), for someone in a position of considerable corporate and creative influence, to appropriate his work so directly, with no credit of the source - until he was confronted by the media.

 

[Lola701]

When making a copy of someone else's work, perhaps to identify, acknowledge and in some way credit the creator of the work.

It hurt particularly for creatives of Asian descent (and those who respected Kaisik and his legacy), for someone in a position of considerable corporate and creative influence, to appropriate his work so directly, with no credit of the source - until he was confronted by the media.

This has nothing to do with me liking Nicolas’s work at all but it’s us, the public who feels entitled for designers telling us where they get their ideas from. We don’t have access to the studios, designers rarely do interviews nowadays and let’s be honest, interviews are rarely focusing on specific collections…

Nicolas for example has always included the copies on the runway and designs alterations or interpretations of those copies too. But he has never talked specifically about collections.

I think the about the Balenciaga SS 2013 in that collection there’s a copy of a Tom Ford for Gucci bra but also of a Versace spring 1994 look worn by Kate Moss. The exact look was copied. And then the campaign for that 2013 collection was basically a recreation by Meisel of a Versace campaign he did. Nobody asked him about it…

From being around a studio, the reality is that the creative process of those designers is quite unpredictable, sometimes very chaotic that what is the focal point for us can be so anecdotic for them.
And it’s even more blurred when a collection is not inspired by a movie or an existing collection but when ideas comes from a photo of an outfit, something thrifted or a looks styled on a magazine.

I know that Nicolas sketches but Florent Buonomano and Natacha Ramsey Levi used to do researches for him too.

I personally assume that every designer copy tbh. My appreciation however comes from how those things are integrated in their work, how it makes sense in their aesthetic and what it means in terms of their identity as a designer.

I have less respect for Zuhair Murad and Proenza Schouler than I have for Marc Jacobs. And in all those cases, their work screams MOODBOARD!

 

[Kennnnn]

This has nothing to do with me liking Nicolas’s work at all but it’s us, the public who feels entitled for designers telling us where they get their ideas from. We don’t have access to the studios, designers rarely do interviews nowadays and let’s be honest, interviews are rarely focusing on specific collections…

Nicolas for example has always included the copies on the runway and designs alterations or interpretations of those copies too. But he has never talked specifically about collections.

I think the about the Balenciaga SS 2013 in that collection there’s a copy of a Tom Ford for Gucci bra but also of a Versace spring 1994 look worn by Kate Moss. The exact look was copied. And then the campaign for that 2013 collection was basically a recreation by Meisel of a Versace campaign he did. Nobody asked him about it…

From being around a studio, the reality is that the creative process of those designers is quite unpredictable, sometimes very chaotic that what is the focal point for us can be so anecdotic for them.
And it’s even more blurred when a collection is not inspired by a movie or an existing collection but when ideas comes from a photo of an outfit, something thrifted or a looks styled on a magazine.

I know that Nicolas sketches but Florent Buonomano and Natacha Ramsey Levi used to do researches for him too.

I personally assume that every designer copy tbh. My appreciation however comes from how those things are integrated in their work, how it makes sense in their aesthetic and what it means in terms of their identity as a designer.

I have less respect for Zuhair Murad and Proenza Schouler than I have for Marc Jacobs. And in all those cases, their work screams MOODBOARD!

Thank you, Lola, for your insight and point of view - have always enjoyed and respected your opinions.

I remember when the Kaisik Wong copy came out - it was very disappointing because that was when Nicolas Ghesquière was doing such great work, really reshaping the look of fashion not only on the runway but in the street. So to see the copying in that collection (which actually, outside the context of this issue, was wonderful), it was disheartening, and it made me really question the things I had bought and loved from Balenciaga at that point.

Yes, all designers "copy" and derive inspiration from other designers and artists. But even I was shocked at how meticulously he copied Kaisik Wong's work.


(Credit: Inside the Mood)

 

[Lola701]

Thank you, Lola, for your insight and point of view - have always enjoyed and respected your opinions.

I remember when the Kaisik Wong copy came out - it was very disappointing because that was when Nicolas Ghesquière was doing such great work, really reshaping the look of fashion not only on the runway but in the street. So to see the copying in that collection (which actually, outside the context of this issue, was wonderful), it was disheartening, and it made me really question the things I had bought and loved from Balenciaga at that point.

Yes, all designers "copy" and derive inspiration from other designers and artists. But even I was shocked at how meticulously he copied Kaisik Wong's work.

View attachment 1268935
(Credit: Inside the Mood)

Thank you for your words.

But I totally get it. When that collection came out, I was already a fan of Nicolas and I was already an intern in fashion.
When the article and the controversy came about, it really made me question and analyze the creative process.

I was an intern as I said before, at a very important house and at that time I was only able to go the studio during my holidays or during allowed periods during the school year. So, I never saw or understood the creative process from it inception.

I draw so I understand that part of design. I understood being inspired by something you see and then drawing something out of it. But for example, I never understood how Jean Paul Gaultier or Gianni Versace came out with some of their ideas. I couldn’t understand how mixing so many ideas and textures on one look could come about in one drawing.

So that controversy made me take a closer look on things. So a designer can draw, pull a vintage piece, do collage and sometimes do everything and then drape on the mannequin and do things.

I was surprised when it was revealed but it made me curious. This was probably the piece that was a starting point for the design of the collection as most of the collection and the idea of collage, patchwork was very prevalent in the collection.

But if you look closely at Nicolas’s work, he always includes a very referential look, that is probable the starting point of his collection, on his shows.

At Balenciaga, it was less obvious when he made collections inspired by the archives because only him and his studio had total access to the archives. But his most personal collections have those kind of copies/references as starting point.

To copy is not difficult. The master in talented designers is to be able to make it relevant in a particular context. And in that Spring 2002 (and fall 2001 too), he did that perfectly.

When Isabel Marant however copies the Balenciaga SS2002 collection, it just looks like a lazy copy. No added value even though it creates a lineage between her work and Nicolas’s.

 

[UltimateF1]

Thank you, Lola, for your insight and point of view - have always enjoyed and respected your opinions.

I remember when the Kaisik Wong copy came out - it was very disappointing because that was when Nicolas Ghesquière was doing such great work, really reshaping the look of fashion not only on the runway but in the street. So to see the copying in that collection (which actually, outside the context of this issue, was wonderful), it was disheartening, and it made me really question the things I had bought and loved from Balenciaga at that point.

Yes, all designers "copy" and derive inspiration from other designers and artists. But even I was shocked at how meticulously he copied Kaisik Wong's work.

View attachment 1268935
(Credit: Inside the Mood)

never understood why NG has such negative feelings for his years back in Balenciaga. He had top class atelier, freedom to design what he wanted. He broke his contract and paid the fine (i think 7 mill EUR??), gossiped about Balenciaga and how horrible it was (that they just wanted him to make another it-bag like 2002 motorcycle bag and not them understanding high-fashion - I mean at Balenciaga, he was delivering PaP on the similar level as HC using HC techniques and now Francois Pinault even resurrected HC for Demna). Then NG went to LV and did copy paste commercial collections for Louis Vuitton - and his dresses are not even sold - only accessories and handbags (while he did not want to do handbags back at Balenciaga = many runways did not have any handbags at all). When i saw those Mona Lisa handbags years ago, i could not believe it was the same designer who always came up with something new for Balenciaga.

People complain about Demna and being mainstream/commercial, but NG is pretty much doing the similar thing, his collections are just more polished. 10 years later and my brain is still not able to process this.... If someone has more info on this, i'd be dying to know...

 

[imjustken]

I draw so I understand that part of design. I understood being inspired by something you see and then drawing something out of it. But for example, I never understood how Jean Paul Gaultier or Gianni Versace came out with some of their ideas. I couldn’t understand how mixing so many ideas and textures on one look could come about in one drawing.

So that controversy made me take a closer look on things. So a designer can draw, pull a vintage piece, do collage and sometimes do everything and then drape on the mannequin and do things.

In trying to understand how Nicolas came up with ideas and finding out how much he copied, I lost a ton of respect for him, especially because the man takes himself so seriously !

When I read his inteviews, he just comes across as a narcissistic pretentious a**hole. He's not curing cancer, he doesn't do couture, he doesn't make the clothes himself, he just draws them and comes up with ideas by looking at movies, TV shows and the work of other creatives.

Azzedine might have copied a lot but at least he did couture, he made the clothes himself and he would bother spending time with his customers. Balenciaga also spent many many years at the beginning of his career going to Paris, buying couture and then remaking the clothes himself to try to understand them.

Karl Lagerfeld was also a designer like Nicolas in that he would sketch but at least he didn't think he was God's gift to the world. I really miss him. Fashion was fun when he was around. That was his gift to the world, he made fashion fun.

Raf and Miuccia also are pretentious as f*ck and so is Phoebe. And neither of them make the clothes themselves or do couture, it's crazy ! Calm down ! I miss John doing true couture and I really miss McQueen. His process is still the most interesting to me. Since he was a tailor, he could tell amazing stories through draping and cutting. He was a real couturier.

Creative couturiers don't exist anymore and neither do fun designers.

 

[Lola701]

In trying to understand how Nicolas came up with ideas and finding out how much he copied, I lost a ton of respect for him, especially because the man takes himself so seriously !

When I read his inteviews, he just comes across as a narcissistic pretentious a**hole. He's not curing cancer, he doesn't do couture, he doesn't make the clothes himself, he just draws them and comes up with ideas by looking at movies, TV shows and the work of other creatives.

Azzedine might have copied a lot but at least he did couture, he made the clothes himself and he would bother spending time with his customers. Balenciaga also spent many many years at the beginning of his career going to Paris, buying couture and then remaking the clothes himself to try to understand them.

Karl Lagerfeld was also a designer like Nicolas in that he would sketch but at least he didn't think he was God's gift to the world. I really miss him. Fashion was fun when he was around. That was his gift to the world, he made fashion fun.

Raf and Miuccia also are pretentious as f*ck and so is Phoebe. And neither of them make the clothes themselves or do couture, it's crazy ! Calm down ! I miss John doing true couture and I really miss McQueen. His process is still the most interesting to me. Since he was a tailor, he could tell amazing stories through draping and cutting. He was a real couturier.

Creative couturiers don't exist anymore and neither do fun designers.

Hmmm…OK

You can’t possibly earn the respect of your atelier and your collaborators if you don’t know how to make clothes.

ALAÏA was literally a seamstress for 20 years before being able to finally express his creativity. His trajectory cannot be compared to anybody in fashion.

But, I’m not one to judge your appreciation on your liking or disliking for whatever designer because of his supposed pretentiousness but when it comes to techniques, it’s unbeatable.

You can’t run an Atelier if you don’t know how to make clothes. It’s simple, it’s clear. Whether you draw or make the clothes yourself, it’s the same thing.
Nicolas went to the best school possible: Jean Paul Gaultier. Who was trained himself by Pierre Cardin.

We don’t ask architects to build the buildings they are building themselves but I hope that they are trained and skilled enough to not design buildings that would fall apart from the moment they are done.

For me the process of everybody is valid. Because when you have to run a studio, you have to move people with you with your ideas.
But much more than the process, the executed product is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

Jacquemus can tell his beautiful stories, I don’t care if the pants are badly cut. Loïc Prigent can show hundreds of videos of Chanel seamstresses and despite all the respect I have for them (giving that my grandmother was one), I’m not buying it. Christian Siriano can saw every dress on the runway himself, I don’t care, it’s a mess. Alexis Mabille can create all the fairytales in the world, with cheap looking fabrics I’m still not buying it.

Giorgio Armani is 90 years old or something. He doesn’t sew or anything himself but somehow, he still can see and direct an Atelier! The cut of his clothes is sharper than all the HC calendar reunited.

So copy or not, I want good fashion (or whatever that means).

 

[blueorchid]

I feel like there's copying/inspiration/homage and then there's COPYING.

Like, I don't see anything wrong with NG recreating an Adrian design from a 1930s movie, like that's a part of pop culture! It's different to me than the Kaisik Wong copy.

I've always felt that a designers like Karl, Yves, etc. who were very referential in their works (versus originals like Balenciaga or Vionnet) are a bit like the fashion equivalent of directors like Martin Scorsese or Pedro Almodovar (stay with me here). Those directors take the bits and pieces of films, books, theatre, whatever, etc. they love and take it apart and piece it together again in their own films. There's intertextuality/meta-cinema going on that CAN look pretty lazy and uninspired when done by less talented directors. With designers, I don't see why it's any different.

 

[imjustken]

We don’t ask architects to build the buildings they are building themselves but I hope that they are trained and skilled enough to not design buildings that would fall apart from the moment they are done.

That's the thing, fashion is not architecture, clothes are not buildings, fashion designers are not architects ... Or movie directors. They're clothes makers.

Armani is really an exception. There's close to nobody like him except for Ralph Lauren maybe. The two of them don't strike me as designers who copy. They seem to want to put their spine on everything.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

This all makes sense when you realize you exist in the context of all which you live and what came before you and also it’s not that serious.

Also Armani and Ralph Lauren both copy. It just might not be as easy to spot as the wildly recognizable eclectic stuff that someone like Nicolas makes