Tom Ford - Designer

[mikeijames]

Originally posted by Lena@Mar 10th, 2004 - 4:02 am
Those who still think that by buying few looks from a brand they sudenly enter a world of the designer's glam world, are gravely misleaded.

Although mislead, this type of mentality drives consumer behaviour through the roof and I think it borders on absurdist to discount the value of celebrity designers when if we'd renamed Gucci to something else NO ONE would buy it AT ALL. We'd not even be having this discussion. YSL is not what it was true, but YSL is NOTHING if not a name. Quality factors into the luxury business yes, that justifies the price point. But the name is what garners the attention. And yes, there are a rarified few who would jump for a barely labeled quality garment, but in today's economy, the consumer dollar is being saved for those items that bear that fashion punch they pay top dollar for.

 

[faust]

Originally posted by mikeijames+Mar 12th, 2004 - 9:16 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikeijames @ Mar 12th, 2004 - 9:16 am)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lena@Mar 10th, 2004 - 4:02 am
Those who still think that by buying few looks from a brand they sudenly enter a world of the designer's glam world, are gravely misleaded.

Although mislead, this type of mentality drives consumer behaviour through the roof and I think it borders on absurdist to discount the value of celebrity designers when if we'd renamed Gucci to something else NO ONE would buy it AT ALL. We'd not even be having this discussion. YSL is not what it was true, but YSL is NOTHING if not a name. Quality factors into the luxury business yes, that justifies the price point. But the name is what garners the attention. And yes, there are a rarified few who would jump for a barely labeled quality garment, but in today's economy, the consumer dollar is being saved for those items that bear that fashion punch they pay top dollar for. [/b][/quote]
very well put

 

[Lena]

i agree mikejames & faust, but still, i find this kind of marketing strategy manipulating and a tiny bit too 'tired' and 'old' if you get my point..

in the new -developing- fashion strategy environment, celebrity monkeys will be much less important, excuses for finding it hard to submit to the star-stystem glam..
it never impressed me much

 

[tott]

Originally posted by mikeijames@Mar 12th, 2004 - 3:16 pm
Quality factors into the luxury business yes, that justifies the price point. But the name is what garners the attention. And yes, there are a rarified few who would jump for a barely labeled quality garment, but in today's economy, the consumer dollar is being saved for those items that bear that fashion punch they pay top dollar for.

I'll have to agree that established names certainly get attention!

But when you talk about "fashion punch", I get a bit lost... What do you mean by it? I'm a Swede living in Italy, so please explain it to me...

 

[Erzébeth]

Originally posted by Lena+Mar 11th, 2004 - 6:25 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lena @ Mar 11th, 2004 - 6:25 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-PrinceOfCats@Mar 12th, 2004 - 12:40 am
I ...YSL's designs really were very French...

so correct [/b][/quote]
hmm.. ever since hedi slimane made a comment about ysl not being very french with the russian collections and that (or not as french as christian dior) i've thought about it, in a way he is, and in other ways he's not

 

[Erzébeth]

also, about the value of a fashion name alone, to me it does mean something, the name ysl is synonymous with sophistication, elegance, subtle sexuality.. even if it's tacked onto the back of some jeans

 

[vogue28]

Kering in talks to acquire Tom Ford, following initial reports Estée Lauder was the front runner:

 

[Lola701]

Kering in talks to acquire Tom Ford, following initial reports Estée Lauder was the front runner:

It’s the kiss of death from Mr Goldfinger….

 

[THD96]

Why not LVMH tho? Does this mean time has healed everything between Tom and Pinault?

Based on Kering's relationship with their designers, the only thing I can say is watch your back Tom (for the second time).

It’s the kiss of death from Mr Goldfinger….

Yeah, but I'm sure you'll rush to the store when Adidas x Tom Ford velvet or lace tracksuits come out .

 

[Lola701]

Why not LVMH tho? Does this mean time has healed everything between Tom and Pinault?

Based on Kering's relationship with their designers, the only thing I can say is watch your back Tom (for the second time).




Yeah, but I'm sure you'll rush to the store when Adidas x Tom Ford velvet or lace tracksuits come out .

Ahaha! The nightmare…Even if the Tom Ford lace tracksuit from SS22 and the current velvet tracksuit aren’t terrible lol.

No but really it’s the real kiss of death. Tom Ford the brand has the same structure as Gucci and YSL and we saw how Pinault killed that structure.

When you see the strategy of KERING lately, they are dropping products here and there in a pace that is almost scary. Yes the collections are good sometimes and there’s an excitement but the idea of luxury is totally lost in the process. The Top performing brands have the same strategy…Literally!

I would rather for him, go to LVMH. There at least, each brand has it strategy.

The problem with both is that they would want the bread and butter of the brand and it’s the beauty entity. KERING never experienced success in that area and LVMH knows well the power of that. We see how LVMH has destroyed Dior Parfums and we see the disaster that KERING did with the perfumes that Tom created for GUCCI.

I guess maybe the relationship with Pinault are better now that Michele is around (Frida did her best to distance herself from Tom) but I wonder if Arnault is still bitter about Tom and the Gucci thing.

I hope Richemont will enter in the mix of the négociations…
Chloé and Alaia might be a mess in terms of creative direction but at least, there’s an integrity in terms of strategy.

 

[Salvatore]

Well that’s interesting, unexpected, and a bit concerning. Tom definitely better watch his back with Kering, unless he doesn’t really care … which I doubt.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

This is a much better option than Loreal!

Kering has the infrastructure and logistical know-how to really take care of a brand like Tom Ford. They'll probably want to bring as much in-house as possible and then support it properly to maximize growth. That's exactly what I would want if I were Tom.

I don't get why everyone is calling this the kiss of death. This is probably the best option he could have hoped for.

 

[LadyJunon]

This is a much better option than Loreal!

Kering has the infrastructure and logistical know-how to really take care of a brand like Tom Ford. They'll probably want to bring as much in-house as possible and then support it properly to maximize growth. That's exactly what I would want if I were Tom.

I don't get why everyone is calling this the kiss of death. This is probably the best option he could have hoped for.

Honestly, after that fiasco with Fall'22, in-house collection development is the way to go. Kering has two couture houses, a demi-couture house and a men's tailoring business under their belt, they know how to deal with these sorts of businesses. The beauty side worries me a bit however.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Honestly, after that fiasco with Fall'22, in-house collection development is the way to go. Kering has two couture houses, a demi-couture house and a men's tailoring business under their belt, they know how to deal with these sorts of businesses. The beauty side worries me a bit however.

In what way? They'll likely want to keep things as they are. L'Oreal also does Saint Laurent beauty so it makes a lot of sense for them to acquire TF, too.

 

[LadyJunon]

In what way? They'll likely want to keep things as they are. L'Oreal also does Saint Laurent beauty so it makes a lot of sense for them to acquire TF, too.

Because, I hate the idea of a fashion house being split between conglomerates. The Saint Laurent Paris and YSL Beauty thing Kering did pisses me off so much.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Because, I hate the idea of a fashion house being split between conglomerates. The Saint Laurent Paris and YSL Beauty thing Kering did pisses me off so much.

What did they do?

 

[THD96]

What did they do?

Pinault's biggest mistake was selling YSL beauté back in 2008, and now regrets it and wants to buy it back from L'Oreal but considering how successful the beauty and fragrance are, there is no-way L'Oreal is going to give it up that easily.
That's why YSL beauty and SLP almost look like two separate brands. Even SLP had their own perfumes now.
Kering is also not happy with their licensee Coty (Gucci, McQueen, etc...) now and considering operating them in-house now.

If Kering makes a deal with TF, I don't think Pinault will make the same mistake again.

For better or worse I prefer a unity vision for a brand.

 

[Kimihiro]

Because, I hate the idea of a fashion house being split between conglomerates. The Saint Laurent Paris and YSL Beauty thing Kering did pisses me off so much.

They’ve been badly wanting to get into the beauty business now much so that the whole Tom Ford deal is more about beauty than the fashion side of things. As users pointed out Pinault for years tried to buy back YSL beauté. So no splitting this time.

 

[Lola701]

Pinault's biggest mistake was selling YSL beauté back in 2008, and now regrets it and wants to buy it back from L'Oreal but considering how successful the beauty and fragrance are, there is no-way L'Oreal is going to give it up that easily.
That's why YSL beauty and SLP almost look like two separate brands. Even SLP had their own perfumes now.
Kering is also not happy with their licensee Coty (Gucci, McQueen, etc...) now and considering operating them in-house now.

If Kering makes a deal with TF, I don't think Pinault will make the same mistake again.

For better or worse I prefer a unity vision for a brand.

The biggest mistake indeed. And the irony is that when Tom was in the Gucci Group, he had a very 360 degré POV around those things, wanted to operate in a very tight matter. The strategy he had for YSL beauty was great actually but I think Pinault never resonate in a long term manner. They didn’t come from fashion and wrongly expected overnight success.

The perfumes Tom launched for YSL beauty at the time weren’t smash hits but we see their influence in the market today. The irony is that it’s those same types of fragrances that build the success of Tom Ford beauty.

In terms of vision, L’Oreal has killed YSL beauty IMO.

This is a much better option than Loreal!

Kering has the infrastructure and logistical know-how to really take care of a brand like Tom Ford. They'll probably want to bring as much in-house as possible and then support it properly to maximize growth. That's exactly what I would want if I were Tom.

I don't get why everyone is calling this the kiss of death. This is probably the best option he could have hoped for.

It’s the kiss of death because I still remember that time of Pinault and his lieutenant against Tom and Dom. Tom decided to leave over control issues and because they didn’t shared the same vision in terms of strategy. When I see Gucci, Saint Laurent, Balenciaga’s strategy, I’m a little bit perplexed regarding a brand like Tom Ford. Sure, there’s a relationship between Pinault and Dom/Tom and they know now how to handle it but I’m not sure on how it could work on a long-term.

The bread and butter of the Tom Ford brand is the beauty and the very successful line of perfumes. I’m sure it will have an impact if the operation is passed to KERING, unless if Tom Ford find a way to be a part of the board of members of the group.

I’m maybe less afraid of Estée Lauder or Richemont because either Tom or Domenico are great enough to appoint an executive that will preserve the integrity of all the operations.

‘Balenciaga is a 1B brand…But at what costs? Made in China sneakers and overpriced hoodies? It’s all cute because we see it as fashion of the moment but in few years, those items will be as embarrassing for the brand as the ridiculous licences YSL had for years.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

The biggest mistake indeed. And the irony is that when Tom was in the Gucci Group, he had a very 360 degré POV around those things, wanted to operate in a very tight matter. The strategy he had for YSL beauty was great actually but I think Pinault never resonate in a long term manner. They didn’t come from fashion and wrongly expected overnight success.

The perfumes Tom launched for YSL beauty at the time weren’t smash hits but we see their influence in the market today. The irony is that it’s those same types of fragrances that build the success of Tom Ford beauty.

In terms of vision, L’Oreal has killed YSL beauty IMO.




It’s the kiss of death because I still remember that time of Pinault and his lieutenant against Tom and Dom. Tom decided to leave over control issues and because they didn’t shared the same vision in terms of strategy. When I see Gucci, Saint Laurent, Balenciaga’s strategy, I’m a little bit perplexed regarding a brand like Tom Ford. Sure, there’s a relationship between Pinault and Dom/Tom and they know now how to handle it but I’m not sure on how it could work on a long-term.

The bread and butter of the Tom Ford brand is the beauty and the very successful line of perfumes. I’m sure it will have an impact if the operation is passed to KERING, unless if Tom Ford find a way to be a part of the board of members of the group.

I’m maybe less afraid of Estée Lauder or Richemont because either Tom or Domenico are great enough to appoint an executive that will preserve the integrity of all the operations.

‘Balenciaga is a 1B brand…But at what costs? Made in China sneakers and overpriced hoodies? It’s all cute because we see it as fashion of the moment but in few years, those items will be as embarrassing for the brand as the ridiculous licences YSL had for years.

Yeah, but almost every brand is churning out overpriced hoodies and ugly sneakers right now. SL and BV have, for the most part, stayed out of that trend story. I'm not so quick to attribute it to a Kering-wide strategy.

But, the compromises made to the overall quality at Balenciaga and Gucci are concerning. I think that's a direct result of Pinault's demand for higher and higher margins. To be honest, I haven't really inspected BV's RTW in a while although the last time I did it seemed fine (I was admittedly distracted by its heaviness and gaudiness).

To me, Estee Lauder would be the worst case scenario. Fashion brands run by companies with no expertise or experience running fashion brands almost NEVER work out.

I would definitely expect Kering to phase out out their Zegna license and take the menswear in-house which is probably what Tom wants. They can also leverage their size and scale to help grow the brand's non-beauty business in way that wasn't possible for TM before and in a way EL never could.

I expect they'll leave the beauty business as it is. The opportunity for Kering is in everything else.

Among which is EYEWEAR.

Kering is one of the few conglomerates that does not license out its eyewear and in fact has its own company, Kering Eyewear, to make it for all their brands. Without a doubt they would phase out Marcolin Group. This would be a huge boon to the eyewear business.

There's a lot of benefits to the Kering deal for both sides.