Who really innovates in fashion now?

[travolta]

btw. johnny very good post. very form meets function, no?

ot: the architect shigeru ban might interest people here... he uses cardboard tubing like pillars on a roman temple.

 

[Spacemiu]

Hollywood (though an oppressed state of genuinenessfueled by a marketing strategy and self images resulting in illusions of fashion rather than fashion itself) is responsible for worldwide impact and dictates the trends today which results in a somewhat innovative state.

But I am not really sure its real innovation.

this is deffinetly true.

 

[JuiceMajor]

Perhaps like architecture...fashion should move towards sustainability!

 

[travolta]

^ if i'm not mistaken, there are places like in scandinavia have certain laws about the sustainability of products. the states has not adopted any such policy... if it does that will be the determining factor. i don't think it's too far down the road for that to happen...

 

[dennissyh]

we live in such a totally different reality both on social and economical lever, this is not the 80's this may never happen again...
i dont see anyone as particulary innovative apart maybe from cdg and junya and miyake (on his own different and much more advanced level)
i think innovation doesnt really 'happen' because people need to take 'rescue' in the past like never before, this is like a marco trend since some years now
innovative design is created and gets noticed in times of 'security' and 'optimism' during 'hard times' there is always the refuge of nostalgia, its a form of escapism, its time for re-working on already used ideas
it all comes down to economic instability
boutiques do not take too many risks, budgets on new designers are getting thin, people look out for 'safe' looks, its like 'comfort dressing'

i hope i made any sense, tired and sleepy here

I will have to give it to REI KAWAKUBO for the present fashion scene. And THE PEOPLE of various countries with a long history, culture and tradition. I always spot desigers with an africa tribal theme, chinoiserie, oriental theme....etc. And you can easily tell where they got their inspiration from. Can i give credit to all the norms, people like us?

Fashion these days are not that exciting like the studio 54's day or the 80's. Where u can find Thierry Mugler, Matsuda, Issey Miyake, Paco Robanne, Yves Saint Laurent and alot more other designers.....people felt WOW seeing their collection and proud wearing them. It's might be overwhelming for the present day but you can't deny their innovation at that point of time. I'm missing the WOW factor.

Frankly, i find fashion these days are more conceptualize than design. Yes, i don't deny the detail and cut are totally different, but when i look at fashion today is something u can pull it off easily yourself, it's all about styling. You can source in the thrift store and can find something very Dior Homme minus the glam factor and that ridiculous price tags. Put on a used t-shirt or over size pullover can be very Margiela minus the four stitches behind.

Don't get me wrong, i loves their designs and appreciate the process and the effort to create that certain look. And i totally respects all of them, it's their present that make me look forward season after season.

 

[The Baron]

As much as I am a fan of many other designers, Issey Miyake seems to be the only true innovator these days. His current work reminds me very much of what happened to furnishing and architecture in the Mid-Century Modern period.

Nowadays we tend to look at MCM and focus on the minimalist aesthetics, but the core of their work was also about modern materials and methods, efficient use of the materials, and aspirational concepts of how things could be both functional and beautiful.

While we see pieces of this suite of ideas from other designers, Miyake seems to be the only one synthesizing them all into a coherent whole. There's a deep aspirational thrust behind his APOC line, something potent enough for him to abandon creative control of his own mainline.

It's clothing that challenges the current fashion industry at every level. It pokes at the ethical issues at the heart of fashion materials and manufacture, it makes wry "emperor's new clothes" observations about the notion of the auteur designer, and perhaps most radically it completely knocks down fashion's equivalent of the "fourth wall" in theater.

The buyer is a buyer, but not wholly a consumer, because the act of creation has become truly collaborative.

While APOC might still be limited to the sphere of those "in the know" at present (and the overlapping sphere of those with the budget to afford it), it has the potential to scale to a much larger audience and much smaller pocketbooks. The scalability is part of the design because it's part of the manufacturing process.

The same was true of much of the MCM furniture design, but it didn't always happen. Many items that could have been mass-produced for a wide audience never were. We'll have to wait and see what happens with Miyake's work, but I certainly hope it reaches far and wide. Couture will never change the world, but APOC just might.

 

[nqth]

You know, I wish Kit could share his opinions on this topic. Sorry for OT.

 

[jhaime]

I think lena hit the nail on the head with the Boutique buying...

It doesn't matter whether a designer is seen to be an innovator, simply because unless the boutiques & department stores make orders, they're going to dissapear...

It's certainly obvious too anyone that the larger department stores such as, Harvey Nichols, Selfridges, Flannels, Cruise etc... buy in more conservative labels...

However, saying that...There are stores in the major cities that are stocking their rails with new, up and coming designers that do tend to design the more extravagant garments...

In london we have, Buddhahood or B Store (http://www.buddhahood.co.uk/update/), Kokon to zai (http://www.kokontozai.co.uk/) & PHLY (Providence, Hope, Love, Yield) in muswell, London.

In new York there are a fair share as well as Paris, Tokyo and a select few other Cities...

Although, even though there is the chance for these young inspiring innovators to showcase their work and accept orders from these small Boutiques...they are never going to be accepeted on a large scale untill they break through into the department stores, Like Barneys, Harvey Nicholls, Browns and so on...

 

[helena]

I would only like to add one designer to the Watanabe, Chalayan, Miyake list - Maurizio Altieri. I want to credit him with innovating how the fabric is treated, how the garment is cut and made (like his single piece of material creations with no seams, which is done BY HAND, unlike Miyake's computirised creations), and reviving the whole idea of artisanship that has been largely lost .

I guess the whole L'art peuvre movement IS what is innovative in fashion today. A movement away from machines & high tech and uniform precision. Instead there is a huge human input and the use of natural fibres and traditional techniques. Carpe diem, Carol Christian Poell, Project Alamaba, Paul Harnden and (to a lesser extent) Haute are all examples.

 

[Scott]

^I concur,Helena

 

[tott]

I guess the whole L'art peuvre movement IS what is innovative in fashion today. A movement away from machines & high tech and uniform precision. Instead there is a huge human input and the use of natural fibres and traditional techniques. Carpe diem, Carol Christian Poell, Project Alamaba, Paul Harnden and (to a lesser extent) Haute are all examples.

I think you are right. And I really think this development hadn't been as easy and possible without the Japanese wave during the 80's. They really shook things up. I think they were more important in changing the mainstream attitude towards style than punk (for instance) was, because they were established, cultured and influential.

You could say that practically all the deconstructions, reconstructions and rebuilds stem from the Japanese. They were thinking outside the box, they were revolutionary, and at the same time they were also very traditional in crafts and techniques in some ways. They helped build the future by looking at the past.

You really can't tell who is innovative today if you mean who has a major impact on the future, because only time can tell. And if you mean innovative as in creating something entirely new, never-seen-before stuff, it probably will never happen. New and exciting combinations, sure, but nothing entirely new. We all have cultural references and preferences we can't escape.

 

[brian w]

To try to answer the question of who NOW is really influential.. I think in many cases, certain designers' ideas won't really be latched upon until many years after they have already shown them! So some of the things we are seeing now might only re-appear years down the road in more mainstream forms! So in a way we will have to wait and see! For instance, Kawakubo's deconstructed look I think probably had a lot of influence in the current distressed looks out there... her looks came out in the early 80's, and when did the 'distressed' thing REALLY get popular? (I'm asking, I don't know!) In the last 5-10 years I would guess.

 

[brian w]

I posted my last post before reading Tott's post before mine... right on!

 

[Scott]

Is innovative only just limited to those that are bigger and can get the message across much easier,or can innovation be when bigger designers are influenced by the smaller ones? Like on the subject of the "hand"....it really all started with two or three very small independent,radical-minded designers only those "in the know" knew about...not to rain on anybody's parade but it's actually the one thing Kawakubo did not initially do...she's one of those who was merely influenced by it all. And I mean,pure hand-working in the sense of Cianciolo and Persoons.

 

[Lena]

Frankly, i find fashion these days are more conceptualize than design. Yes, i don't deny the detail and cut are totally different, but when i look at fashion today is something u can pull it off easily yourself, it's all about styling. You can source in the thrift store and can find something very Dior Homme minus the glam factor and that ridiculous price tags. Put on a used t-shirt or over size pullover can be very Margiela minus the four stitches behind.

ha, what a honest down to earth reply dennissyh, welcome to tFS

agreed on the arte povera fashion 'movement' Helena

 

[fashionista-ta]

You obviously have never seen a Comme des Garcons piece in your life . The whole point is that the garment only LOOKS deconstructed. It wasn't about showing half made clothes, it was about giving prim-and-proper borgouis Paris the boot with a different aesthetic at the time.

You can assume any level of ignorance you like--I love being underestimated B)

This is my point. I accept that designers have made some great artistic statements using deconstruction. What I'm questioning is whether, now that we are seeing the full impact, it can really be called an innovation in a positive sense. At least 3 of the "magnificent 7" are using this technique, and many many low-end manufacturers are showing fraying and exposed seams. In the case of even some big name designers, fraying is being slapped onto garments, apparently as an afterthought. Overall the impact IMO (and I own garments both "high" and "low" that demonstrate this, unfortunately) has been to decrease clothes' overall quality and longevity--surely not what we need.

 

[The Baron]

I guess the whole L'art peuvre movement IS what is innovative in fashion today. A movement away from machines & high tech and uniform precision. Instead there is a huge human input and the use of natural fibres and traditional techniques. Carpe diem, Carol Christian Poell, Project Alamaba, Paul Harnden and (to a lesser extent) Haute are all examples.

While I'm a big fan of this movement, let me quibble about semantics for a moment...

It's progressive, but not what I would call innovative. It's essentially a return to pre-industrial methods, which goes decidedly against the mainstream of modern fashion production, but isn't actually new.

I think Poell et al are doing brilliant work. But it's like sailing out to explore the world with an unfinished map. In one corner of the map is a mysterious little island that hasn't been visited in 3 generations, but the coastline is carefully charted and the old port is clearly marked, while in another corner lies a completely unexplored area emblazoned only with the ominous fiction "Here Be Dragons".

It's exciting to explore either one, but only one of them carries the added potential of making a new discovery.

Yarrrrrr!

 

[Melisande]

You can assume any level of ignorance you like--I love being underestimated B)

B)

 

[fashionista-ta]

While I'm a big fan of this movement, let me quibble about semantics for a moment...

It's progressive, but not what I would call innovative. It's essentially a return to pre-industrial methods, which goes decidedly against the mainstream of modern fashion production, but isn't actually new.

I think Poell et al are doing brilliant work. But it's like sailing out to explore the world with an unfinished map. In one corner of the map is a mysterious little island that hasn't been visited in 3 generations, but the coastline is carefully charted and the old port is clearly marked, while in another corner lies a completely unexplored area emblazoned only with the ominous fiction "Here Be Dragons".

It's exciting to explore either one, but only one of them carries the added potential of making a new discovery.

Yarrrrrr!

Wouldn't you say, though, that what Project Alabama did in terms of fabric sourcing (recycling used Ts from thrift stores), labor (rural Southern women who'd never come within 100 miles of high fashion), visible handwork (knots out, etc.), and the redefinition of value-add, was innovative?

 

[Lena]

personally i dont find P.A. innovative at all... thats on the design level..
as a stylistic approach, yes, it can certainly bve considered fresh but innovative is not

the arte povera style is basically a reaction to the over industralisation of today, it can be a fountain for new ideas, but imho, having raw hems hanging down there is pretty mainstream (not to say banal) and not so hard to achieve/concieve