Who really innovates in fashion now?

[travolta]

^ if i'm not mistaken, there are places like in scandinavia have certain laws about the sustainability of products. the states has not adopted any such policy... if it does that will be the determining factor. i don't think it's too far down the road for that to happen...

just to clarify, i meant a law that would affect the fashion industry as a whole, not just one particular country.

 

[fashionista-ta]

just to clarify, i meant a law that would affect the fashion industry as a whole, not just one particular country.

To tell you the truth, I think it will be the EU that will move the entire world forward. I thought their stopping the GE-Honeywell merger was an absolutely watershed moment in terms of the EU setting course for multi-nationals, and I expect more of the same in the future. My country appears to be rather (OK, almost completely) backward in this area ... Bush and his ilk are actively anti-sustainability as far as I can tell. Consumerism/Wal-martification/burning through maximum amounts of fossil fuels/stomping thru wildlife refuge/McMansion building seems to be a second religion for them ... "Testosterone surging, must leave my mark" ...

I was disturbed to see the EU cave recently to Bush on GMOs. You guys in Europe need to hold the EU's feet to the fire, it's the only way

 

[Scott]

personally i dont find P.A. innovative at all... thats on the design level..
as a stylistic approach, yes, it can certainly bve considered fresh but innovative is not

the arte povera style is basically a reaction to the over industralisation of today, it can be a fountain for new ideas, but imho, having raw hems hanging down there is pretty mainstream (not to say banal) and not so hard to achieve/concieve

Yeah,I agree about Alabama. Really,it's just pretty handworking on pretty grotesque t'shirt shapes etc. Design is not exactly a part of their aesthetic,to be honest.

However,I do think there have been radicals that have done this quite innovatively. Initially,it was Susan Cianciolo with all her ragamuffin quirks...but she also did all this in addition to creating interesting shapes. Same can be said about Jurgi with his contradicting high-quality sophisticate VS. simple, handmade and childlike meshing. Definitely two that stand out with regards to this look,really.

 

[Lena]

yes i agree scott, but this is not design innovation
this is just a technique and its not too innovative either..

 

[fashionista-ta]

Yeah,I agree about Alabama. Really,it's just pretty handworking on pretty grotesque t'shirt shapes etc. Design is not exactly a part of their aesthetic,to be honest.

However,I do think there have been radicals that have done this quite innovatively. Initially,it was Susan Cianciolo with all her ragamuffin quirks...but she also did all this in addition to creating interesting shapes. Same can be said about Jurgi with his contradicting high-quality sophisticate VS. simple, handmade and childlike meshing. Definitely two that stand out with regards to this look,really.

My point was more that Project Alabama had innovated wrt the fashion business model ... are we discussing only design innovation ... or all types of innovation?

 

[faust]

^ if i'm not mistaken, there are places like in scandinavia have certain laws about the sustainability of products. the states has not adopted any such policy... if it does that will be the determining factor. i don't think it's too far down the road for that to happen...

Yes, I beleive in Sweden all durable goods come with a mandatory 2year warranty required by the govt. And no, this will never happen in the US, where the consumer economy thrives on selling cheap disposable sh*t and where low price is a primary requirement (witness the success of Walmart, Costco, etc...)

 

[The Baron]

Wouldn't you say, though, that what Project Alabama did in terms of fabric sourcing (recycling used Ts from thrift stores), labor (rural Southern women who'd never come within 100 miles of high fashion), visible handwork (knots out, etc.), and the redefinition of value-add, was innovative?

I guess I'm just taking a narrower view of the concept of innovation than you are. I do think that Project Alabama in particular is a spectacular display of problem-solving. It's one of the most compelling responses to a lot of the issues I raised over in the "fashion problems" thread: sustainability, ethical labor, and local relevance. But a lot of what they do has been done before (albeit often with more pretense and less soul) by the likes of Imitation of Christ.

But in the end, maybe it's the soul that matters. Enough so that I'm willing to make my definition of innovation fuzzy around the edges and stick "arte povera" in the gray area.

 

[travolta]

Yes, I beleive in Sweden all durable goods come with a mandatory 2year warranty required by the govt. And no, this will never happen in the US, where the consumer economy thrives on selling cheap disposable sh*t and where low price is a primary requirement (witness the success of Walmart, Costco, etc...)

mhmm. don't be so sure. i don't think any place, even the us, can sustain itself by cutting corners. i think the environmentalistics will have a reason to cry foul and force us to go down a more ethically conscious road. think of it like selt belts in cars, or health care...

 

[faust]

mhmm. don't be so sure. i don't think any place, even the us, can sustain itself by cutting corners. i think the environmentalistics will have a reason to cry foul and force us to go down a more ethically conscious road. think of it like selt belts in cars, or health care...

wishful thinking, but I wish the same

 

[tott]

Yes, I beleive in Sweden all durable goods come with a mandatory 2year warranty required by the govt. And no, this will never happen in the US, where the consumer economy thrives on selling cheap disposable sh*t and where low price is a primary requirement (witness the success of Walmart, Costco, etc...)

Here in Sweden you are basically protected against manufacturing defects/problems for two years by law, yes. The problem is that it can be a bit of a struggle to claim your rights, but it sure can be done; more or less easily depending on where you bought the stuff.

And you can always take your failing stuff back to the shop that sold it, regardless of manufacturer and their policies. This could be somewhat of a problem with international internet stores with Swedish branches that sell to Sweden with an RTB warranty. RTB warranties are not acceptable here unless you personally are willing to jump through hoops.

 

[haruki]

I'm trying to understand if the fashion system really cares about inovation or just newness. One thing is for sure, fashion is quick to drop things when they become not new. For instance I'm told that Margiella mens clothes are going to be moved from the directional designer floor (3rd floor in New York) to 4th floor next to Armani, Ermengilda Zegna excetera next season. Really Margiela is way more innovative than many of the designers still on 3rd floor, it is just Margiela doesn't feel new anymore. Rei Kawakuba is very good at staying new, even when she repeats herself.

 

[Scott]

I guess I'm just taking a narrower view of the concept of innovation than you are. I do think that Project Alabama in particular is a spectacular display of problem-solving. It's one of the most compelling responses to a lot of the issues I raised over in the "fashion problems" thread: sustainability, ethical labor, and local relevance. But a lot of what they do has been done before (albeit often with more pretense and less soul) by the likes of Imitation of Christ.

But in the end, maybe it's the soul that matters. Enough so that I'm willing to make my definition of innovation fuzzy around the edges and stick "arte povera" in the gray area.

I agree with that,actually. I think the whole idea of having a soul in clothing is still probably the most innovative concept in fashion. Despite the idea being around for quite some time amongst primarily the Belgians & the Japanese,I still think don't think many in the industry have responded to such a thing. There is no such thing as anything truly being personal right now.

 

[faust]

IFor instance I'm told that Margiella mens clothes are going to be moved from the directional designer floor (3rd floor in New York) to 4th floor next to Armani, Ermengilda Zegna excetera next season. Really Margiela is way more innovative than many of the designers still on 3rd floor, it is just Margiela doesn't feel new anymore.

I take it you are talking about Barneys? They have Junya Watanabe men's on the fifth floor in CO-OP, so go figure

 

[haruki]

Oops. I did indeed mean Barneys Faust. You must know your shopping to have figured out I meant Barneys from the few clues I left. Thanks for the Junya Watanabe info. Now I know why I can never find it at the New York Barneys. I thought they just didn't sell Junya Watanabe and I guess I am too snobby to shop at the fifth floor to have ever looked for it there.

 

[faust]

Oops. I did indeed mean Barneys Faust. You must know your shopping to have figured out I meant Barneys from the few clues I left. Thanks for the Junya Watanabe info. Now I know why I can never find it at the New York Barneys. I thought they just didn't sell Junya Watanabe and I guess I am too snobby to shop at the fifth floor to have ever looked for it there.

Yes, you could say I know my shopping. Junya is lumped together with CDG Shirt line on the fifth floor. Needless to say the selection is underwhelming. I have no idea why they have it there, and why they have something like Duckie Brown and Libertine on the 3rd floor. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

It's pretty loopy that they are going to move Margiela to the 4th. Who told you that?

 

[Scott]

^probaby because Duckie(isn't it?)and Libertine are NY labels and they're just trying to get people a bit more interested in NY indies. That said,perhaps if you spot Julie Gilhart during the shows,you should approach her and find out

 

[PrinceOfCats]

Innovation is impossible, unless you are not a homo sapien. Perhaps there is a sliding scale of innovativeness but over time, the ends of the scale will seem closer and closer together. Who here could look at various medieval costumes and point out which were pieces of innovative design and which were ye olde Ralph Lauren? I just wear things I like and try not to think about it too much.

 

[haruki]

:

It's pretty loopy that they are going to move Margiela to the 4th. Who told you that?

Mr. Faust, my New York City host Mr. Philip Gentleman told me about Margiela moving to the conservative section at Barneys. One of the sales persons told him.

 

[philip gentleman]

it's true, margiela will be moving to the 4th floor, between the hugo boss and armani. that is according to philip at IF, who has an "intimate" contact in the men's boring floor.

haruki - remember how the first floor smelled like vomit? i heard that it was from philip from IF. apparently he ate an egg salad panini with a bad batch of homemade mayo from clancy's sandwich shop.

 

[philip gentleman]

regarding the location of the junya watanabe collection on the co-op floor at barney's in new york, i heard it is because of the amount of collaboration projects he is working on. apparently the buyers feel that collabo = co-op as a paradigm, and also because they feel that everyone is sick to death of the bad jeans with motorcycle patches on them. the head buyer is rumored to have mistaken the collection for von dutch clothing and accidentally placed them on the 5th floor! i do not know if there is any truth to this, but that's the story at the water cooler according to philip at IF...