Why are there so few female fashion photographers?

[Elle M]

Sylvie Malfray is the first female photographer that comes to mind for me.
I've done a little bit of fashion photography and I've been asking myself the exact same question. Why is it that so many men who haven't got the slightest idea about fashion in general take up fashion photography? Most of the ones I know don't even bother to pick up the latest copies of Love/Hunger/you name it. In my humble opinion I think it's rather necessary to be up to date with the latest editorials and try and educate yourself visually, or even better, do some proper research, there are plenty books on the subject.
A bit later I found one possible answer. They honestly hope to hook up with models. I'm serious. I have met quite a lot and most of them (90%) have the same habit of making a move on their models. One of the guys I've met practically lived off this type of ego boost !
Personally, I like supporting the female creatives in this industry, whether they are designers, editors or photographers. And I'm hoping to see more of them in the future.

 

[Scott]

i'm sorry but to blatantly say that men have a better eye than women,i find horribly offensive. if not,downright misogynistic. i cannot believe anybody would ever say such a thing on a fashion board filled with stupendous women with exceptional point of views and perspectives.

not only is that making a very broad generalisation based on one's gender but that's also like saying that you know every female photog in the world. not every woman is the same just like not every man is the same. there is a little thing called a personality. personally many of the women i know and whose work i've enjoyed over the years have all developed a very distinct vision so to suggest that they're somehow more uncertain or unclear of their ideas,is completely baseless. your judging a couple photographers based on what one or two at the max? that's terribly absurd.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Wait a second here; so, you're saying that female photographers (and women?) in general are hesitant and indecisive? On what basis are you making this assumption? On what evidence?

The prevalence of male photographers in the fashion industry, in my opinion, is due to socio-economic factors and has little to do with a lack of talent.

There's definitely a time-lag in place which was alluded to earlier in this thread. The top photographers operating at the moment grew up in a time in which men were offered greater opportunities than women (Demarchelier was born in 1943, for instance.) A female photographer growing up at the same time would have faced far greater pressures than their male counterparts. Women were taught to have different aspirations from men and may have faced prejudice on account of their gender. For these reasons, we're seeing fewer top female photographers. It's not so much that there weren't women around of Demarchelier's generation who had the potential to become great photographers, it's more that their talents were not nurtured.

Hopefully a new generation of bright, female photographers will emerge in the near future. Although we're far from achieving gender equality, hopefully more modern egalitarian values will produce a crop of great female photographers. I believe that the rise of the internet and availability of cameras has levelled the playing field enormously. More people can become photographers and are able to share their work easily online. This is a brilliant development.

I agree wholeheartedly with YoninahAliza's about the sexual nature of many male fashion photographer's work. There is nothing wrong with sexuality in fashion photography. In fact, it's an important part of the art form. The trouble is that the work of some (but certainly not all) male fashion photographers can be sexually exploitative. The work of Terry Richardson et al presents women on a plate, arguably as nothing more than objects. We often forget what a great impact fashion photography has on our society and how it often guides the way in which society views women. If women are so frequently presented through a male lens and are objectified in images, they become sexual objects in the real world. It's disappointing how uncommon it is to see a fashion photography which feature women in control or celebrating their own sexuality.

Do you think that more female fashion photographers could perhaps improve the way in while society views women? Would we see more egalitarian imagery in fashion? As fashionista-ta mentioned, I often find that the women portrayed in some fashion photographs are more commonly conforming to male sexual desires than female ones.

I know that I'm veering off topic here slightly but this documentary about advertisement and it's impact upon gender and race is definitely worth a watch. It was in parts on Youtube but I can't find it. It might also be interesting to expand this debate into why there are so few fashion photographers of colour?

In response to other posts, just wanted to clarify that I think this field is well behind most others in terms of female participation.

Isn't Demarchelier significantly older than some of his peers--Meisel for instance? The age of the top photographers does skew a little older, but I'm not sure that can explain this.

This situation is a bit analogous to female directors, but there are more than just three or so of those to point to (fewer now than Nora Ephron is no longer with us ).

I think perhaps the problem here is the paradigm. It seems that men are defining what work in this field looks like. I would love to see that change, considering that fashion magazines are made largely by women, for women. I find it ironic, given the known "man-repelling" quality of high-fashion clothes, that fashion photography is still apparently defined by the male gaze.

Do fashion critics ever turn their gaze on fashion photography? It seems to me it could use some criticism, say during the off season ...

 

[blueorchid]

I interpret this to mean that the male photographer knows exactly who he wants the woman/model to be, and perhaps the female photographer wants to see what develops toward the theme rather than dictating exactly what is going to happen. In that case the male photographer would have very specific notes for the model. That is far from having a superior eye.

I am not a photographer, but I feel somewhat this way about meetings. I'm not opposed to an agenda, but I'm also not opposed to departing from the agenda either if some good brainstorming occurs. If you discover the whole point of the meeting is invalid, why continue to talk about it? Many men would disagree violently with this viewpoint ... which I see as utterly foolish. Perhaps this is analogous to what Lara is pointing up. And perhaps the female photographers would like her to take some ownership of the process--I don't know.

You're bringing up a good point here (I think). Isn't it "stereotypically" rolleyes said that women are more collaborative when they work together, so perhaps these female photographers are hoping to maybe have a more reciprocal relationship with a model on set? I don't know, but it might be something to consider.

It's almost like comparing filmmaking styles, where there are directors who really don't allow for much improvisation and have everything already mapped out in their minds versus ones who give more creative freedom to their actors.

 

[seahorseinstripe]

fashionista-ta you can say what you want but I'm just stating my opinion in general and not just what I think is happening in my country. I'm from Indonesia and we had a woman president years and years ago, that doesn't happen to a lot of country is it?

I think the same question can be asked why there are more male chef than females? in general females can cook better than males but more males choose cooking as a career than females do
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[YoninahAliza]

^I'm sorry but I don't understand why you are reducing specific jobs to one gender. Is there really any proof that women are better cooks then men? Or that men are better photographers then women? Obviously much of this is subjective, based on what style of photography you like or what type of food you enjoy, yet when you make such blanketed statements it can reduce people to stereotypes (like women being good cooks). Because, I'm a women and I'm terrible at cooking, and perhaps more importantly I don't want to be pigeonholed into a specific type of career or become a stereotype.

One place that you can see up-and-coming female photographers is Rookie magazine (Tavi's project). What I really like is that they often have younger women not only modeling in the pictures but also behind the lens as well. And they often accept photography taken by amateur girls, just learning the craft, it's rather interesting to see. One of there contributors, Olivia Bee, even did a photography project with Hermes recently (and she's only 18)! So I have to say, it's girls like Tavi and Olivia Bee that give me hope that magazines/editorials/photography won't be like they are now. And that women's voices will be much more prevalent in careers like fashion photography.

 

[Werther]

You can be one if you have some ideas to share...I think.

 

[MulletProof]

I'm with BerlinRocks. Men outweigh women in most, if not all, fields, either by quantity or by force/level of influence (modeling). The way a business is designed, the way dynamics to enter that business are shaped, how you stick around, it's all thought for men, or by men, it isn't just about making it in a male-dominated business but changing parameters so that no one has to 'break' through a structure that admits specific behavior but simply be in a level-playing field from the very beginning, and by beginning I'm talking about the way we're brought up (cultural elements that shape how we're to interact as adults, usually following what's expected of women/men).

I respect the focus on the microscopic world of fashion photography but that's merely reflecting where we are as a society, it has nothing to do with whether someone feels more or less, or is indecisive, or more decisive or just has more ideas or talent.. that's surface, the record we're supposed to repeat to ourselves in our professional life in order to explain (and justify, quite evidently) why things are they way they are.

Anyway, back to female photography.. many of my all-time favorite photographers are women (Deborah Turbeville, Sarah Moon, Vanina Sorrenti, Carlotta Manaigo, Lee Miller), I definitely think their approach to photography is remarkably different.. it's more complex for me, it's not really about exploring a certain aesthetic or working with trends (which men respond to quite well imo), there are multiple layers, a yes and a no in the same picture, criticism and tradition, and for the same reason (back to my point on business structure), I feel like that's why they (the ones I listed anyway) are not going to succeed in the same way someone like Meisel has, because what sells, what's expected is molded for someone like Meisel (or anyone who can do the same).

 

[Scott]

mullet,i think you hit the nail on the head right there about female photogs. and perhaps that's the key.....maybe those women are a bit more complex in their ideals.....defying trends and typical standards that entices that cliched fashion market. but just because you may not understand their aesthetics or their working process,that certainly doesn't give one the audacity to degrade an entire gender by saying men have a better eye. i don't abide by that sentiment one bit...it infuriates me that in 2012 people still have that kind of attitude.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I don't think I said it, but what I was thinking about the typical ed is 'one-dimensional.' I would really be interested in hearing from someone in the magazine industry why this same simplistic work is presented over and over again.

I find it interesting that I do really like Steven Meisel's work for Lanvin, and I imagine that must be due to Alber's direction. I find his work for US Vogue stultifying. Yet Irving Penn did really interesting work for Vogue. Perhaps it takes a special genius to overcome Vogue's unrelenting aim for the lowest common denominator?

Perhaps some examples would help ... I would be interested in seeing examples of complex fashion photography by women.

 

[ErnstLudwig]

^ I don't think I said it, but what I was thinking about the typical ed is 'one-dimensional.' I would really be interested in hearing from someone in the magazine industry why this same simplistic work is presented over and over again.

The photographers are hired to deliver within certain guidelines set by the editors (and maybe even more importantly the companies that want to sell their stuff). So if it is boring as hell & focusing on the clothing = save bet to make the advertisers happy? (just my guess)
For guidelines I think about "topics" like the great gatsby, olympics, election, ...

Is there really any proof that women are better cooks then men?

No, statistics say men are better (michelin stars). Or is it a male conspiracy because all the critics are men as well?

the gender aspect why women "fail":
- more content with little (also why get generally get payed less)
- less competitive then men
- less likely to take risks (therefore less % succeed in the end)
- generally are more likely to hold back professionally when they are in a partnership, value personal life more


My fav female photog is Eve Arnold, like all of the great ones she had the ability to sense the perfect moment.
fashion: Kayt Jones, I generally like her aesthetics & style.

 

[iluvjeisa]

I'm with BerlinRocks. Men outweigh women in most, if not all, fields, either by quantity or by force/level of influence (modeling). The way a business is designed, the way dynamics to enter that business are shaped, how you stick around, it's all thought for men, or by men, it isn't just about making it in a male-dominated business but changing parameters so that no one has to 'break' through a structure that admits specific behavior but simply be in a level-playing field from the very beginning, and by beginning I'm talking about the way we're brought up (cultural elements that shape how we're to interact as adults, usually following what's expected of women/men).

I respect the focus on the microscopic world of fashion photography but that's merely reflecting where we are as a society, it has nothing to do with whether someone feels more or less, or is indecisive, or more decisive or just has more ideas or talent.. that's surface, the record we're supposed to repeat to ourselves in our professional life in order to explain (and justify, quite evidently) why things are they way they are.

Anyway, back to female photography.. many of my all-time favorite photographers are women (Deborah Turbeville, Sarah Moon, Vanina Sorrenti, Carlotta Manaigo, Lee Miller), I definitely think their approach to photography is remarkably different.. it's more complex for me, it's not really about exploring a certain aesthetic or working with trends (which men respond to quite well imo), there are multiple layers, a yes and a no in the same picture, criticism and tradition, and for the same reason (back to my point on business structure), I feel like that's why they (the ones I listed anyway) are not going to succeed in the same way someone like Meisel has, because what sells, what's expected is molded for someone like Meisel (or anyone who can do the same).

Most fields of art/science where there is a lot of competition are dominated by men. That this is connected to our social structure is a given. How it happens? I think it often happens by the rules of mentorship and reputation. In the case of female photographers it may be extreme.

How do you build a good reputation? By doing good work for a senior photographer/politician/scientist.

How does a senior photographer choose their assistants? By their talent and by how well they get along with this person - overlapping interests etc etc. People tend to pick protegés that are a lot like themselves and for a man that tends to be another man.

So on lower levels of performance, men and women perform evenly, but as soon as you get up to the higher levels where you most often find the master-protegé system, whoever is the most like the old masters has a distinct advantage....

 

[fashionista-ta]

The photographers are hired to deliver within certain guidelines set by the editors (and maybe even more importantly the companies that want to sell their stuff). So if it is boring as hell & focusing on the clothing = save bet to make the advertisers happy? (just my guess)
For guidelines I think about "topics" like the great gatsby, olympics, election, ...



No, statistics say men are better (michelin stars). Or is it a male conspiracy because all the critics are men as well?

the gender aspect why women "fail":
- more content with little (also why get generally get payed less)
- less competitive then men
- less likely to take risks (therefore less % succeed in the end)
- generally are more likely to hold back professionally when they are in a partnership, value personal life more


My fav female photog is Eve Arnold, like all of the great ones she had the ability to sense the perfect moment.
fashion: Kayt Jones, I generally like her aesthetics & style.

What I find annoying about a lot of editorials is that it can be almost impossible to see the clothes due to deep, dramatic shadows, b&w photography of colored garments, etc.

It's important to bear in mind that career success is something that has been largely defined by men (and enabled by women, both personally and professionally). So I like that you put 'fail' in quotation marks, because many women decide the whole system is BS, and I'm not going to say they're wrong (particularly since in many ways I agree).

In this and every field, there are still men at the top who never had any competition from women, either to speak of or at all, when they were coming up. Women have changed the whole picture already in a number of ways, and I think the changes have just begun. We're still playing by men's rules, so I certainly hope there are many more changes to come.

Regarding chefs, that is another outlier field where hours are incredibly long, leaving little for any kind of personal life. Recently a male chef here locally left the restaurant he opened and went to work for a high-end grocery store chain. There was a discussion on a food forum about it, how the mighty had fallen. I pointed out that maybe he wanted reasonable work hours if his children were young so that he could actually see them.

Statistics show that women are far more likely (I believe the study I saw was of recent graduates) to take what's offered to them and not negotiate. Possibly these women are clueing in as time goes on as I did. (Actually though, I just remembered that in my very first job, my male officemates got a raise, and I went and asked my boss for the same raise and argued with him about it ) My understanding is that my compensation stacks up quite well in comparison with the men around me (and has for awhile, not just in this job), but I have learned to negotiate. That's important ...

 

[Scott]

ernst,you make a great point because i think people sometimes forget with any photographer,those stories are more often dictated by the editor/stylist and even the magazine they're working for. in the end it's that who publishes the work. so yes,guidelines and sometimes even limitations.

 

[mimirose]

the gender aspect why women "fail":
- more content with little (also why get generally get payed less)
- less competitive then men
- less likely to take risks (therefore less % succeed in the end)
- generally are more likely to hold back professionally when they are in a partnership, value personal life more

I'm sorry but I refuse to have my gender belittled in such a way. You cannot generalise women like this. To be frank, it's sexism. What evidence do you have to support your claims?

Yes, more Michelin Starred chefs are male. This is not wholly because of a female lack of talent. The well established Patriarchy has made it incredibly difficult for women to enter and succeed in certain aspects of the food industry (just as in the fashion industry.) In fact, men underestimating women by saying that they're 'less competitive' etc is simply an excuse for them not to employ or support women. It's justifying the prejudice. MulletProof elaborated on this point more eloquently than I have.

Adding to the point that iluvjeisa made about male scientists, I think that the way in which we raise men and women as children shapes their abilities as adults. I read something about how the toys given to children nurture certain talents. For instance, dolls improve the social and nurturing skills of young children whereas train sets (or classically male children's toys such as race cars or Lego) nurture creativity and scientific thinking. If we only give little girls dolls to play with, perhaps their interest in science and other creative fields as adults is affected? Likewise, if boys are not given dolls, they can sometimes lack the emotional development that young girls acquire. Perhaps the way in which we're raising children forces them into a gender stereotype?

I believe that our society is changing and that we're making important steps towards equality. In the future we'll hopefully see just as many female fashion photographers as male ones.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I think it would be ludicrous to say that women are less talented chefs than men. There are clearly other factors affecting their 'success.'

I absolutely believe in nurture, but nature also plays its part. There are many ways in which we can improve nurture. I have seen over and over, in for example a relatively egalitarian group where women outnumbered men, these people have just come together, they elect leaders, and somehow men are in the highest/most important positions even though they are in the minority. Who put them there? Women. There are some mindsets that are fundamental for a lot of people that need to be addressed.

Wrt nature, I think it's true that men are naturally more competitive and naturally take more risks. (This is known informally by me as 'testosterone poisoning.') How many women have ever come close to running you off the road? I have to say that at least 99% of the dangerous drivers I've encountered, who were being competitive and taking risks (not yelling at the kids in the backseat), were men. (I would say 100% but I want to leave myself a margin of error.) There are differences between men and women, but I believe the healthy side of these qualities can absolutely be nurtured in women.

One would think from reading this thread that women were at a huge disadvantage in every field, which is not really true. The majority of law school graduates today are women, is my understanding. I believe the same is true for college graduates overall. Women now dominate a number of fields where they didn't even exist a few decades ago.

Huge progress has been made, and I would love to see progress here, since this niche field has major input into how women are portrayed in the media.

US Elle's editor seems to be the most progressive of the editors of the major US magazines ... perhaps we should write a few letters.

 

[ErnstLudwig]

Statistics show that women are far more likely (I believe the study I saw was of recent graduates) to take what's offered to them and not negotiate

This was the study that I read as well

I'm sorry but I refuse to have my gender belittled in such a way. You cannot generalise women like this. To be frank, it's sexism. What evidence do you have to support your claims?

It's statistics, sociology (gender studies), and evolutionary psychology

What I meant with "fail" is that besides an often similar number of males/females having the same level of education (f.e. university degree) in the end the numbers extremely shift favoring men to be really successful. Just take the example of most natural sciences: more or less 50/50 male/female, but how many end up as professor & heads of R&D of big companies? (law = judge, economics = CEO... you name it)

This is not wholly because of a female lack of talent

I never stated "lack of talent". I was giving reasons that despite similar talents the statistics point into only one direction.

I believe that our society is changing and that we're making important steps towards equality. In the future we'll hopefully see just as many female fashion photographers as male ones.

Maybe in fashion photography. In general I honestly doubt it, but time will tell... and female quotas will help 0 with the problem (a biological male / female difference), but maybe "correct" the statistics and then the politicians can be happy again
(btw we need more male preschool teachers )

 

[iluvjeisa]

This was the study that I read as well



It's statistics, sociology (gender studies), and evolutionary psychology

What I meant with "fail" is that besides an often similar number of males/females having the same level of education (f.e. university degree) in the end the numbers extremely shift favoring men to be really successful. Just take the example of most natural sciences: more or less 50/50 male/female, but how many end up as professor & heads of R&D of big companies? (law = judge, economics = CEO... you name it)



I never stated "lack of talent". I was giving reasons that despite similar talents the statistics point into only one direction.



Maybe in fashion photography. In general I honestly doubt it, but time will tell... and female quotas will help 0 with the problem (a biological male / female difference), but maybe "correct" the statistics and then the politicians can be happy again
(btw we need more male preschool teachers )

You miss an important point and that is that for the highest positions (CEOs, Professors etc) you need to be good at networking and you need to be able to get the advise of your superiors about how to advance. Without that, you are, unless your family has a history in your chosen field, dead in the water.

Networking happens most flawlessly between similar individuals. So to a woman in a field with 80% men, only ~20% of the network is easily accessible to her. If you think that's not going to affect her chances for the top positions, you are wrong.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I think it's possible for a woman to network with men, but people are most enthusiastic about mentoring, hiring, promoting, etc. people who remind them of themselves, and gender is most definitely a factor in that. I remember I was so surprised when I observed at work that sexism seems to cut deeper than any other prejudice. Men of color, men who are gay, are still men.

 

[loladonna]

The industry promotes men in every aspect of the game. Someone powerful like Anna Wintour could take note of the work of a new female photographer and use her for some Vogue editorials but for whatever reason she doesn't. Why do all the Vogues use the same photographers is something I'd like to know?