Bottega Veneta - The All-Things Bottega Veneta Thread

[Lola701]

Matthieu's first collection is going to be very expensive. I have heard through the merchandisers in Italy that they are a little stressed about selling this collection. Blazy is trying to push Bottega Veneta all super upscale and luxe; but in the span of one season, it's just too fast too soon.

Also, the reaction to his first show, from both buyers and clients, was pretty lukewarm. I mean, besides the fact that the clothes were quite generic looking, the prices in some cases are nearing double what Daniel Lee's clothes. And the bags, well, you can see for yourselves they are trying to get into that above $10,000 market. The clientele is not stupid. At the kind of price point, they will probably go to Chanel or Dior or Hermes.

I'm sorry to say it, but Bottega is simply not at the level of brands like Chanel and Dior, which are (for a start) Haute Couture Maisons. Secondly, these "Uber-luxury" brands really control and limit their distribution. Bottega on the other hand is selling on nearly every single online store (Net-A-Porter, Mr. Porter, Matches, Luisa Via Roma, My Theresa, Ssense, etc etc).

It all seems very contradictory to me and this whole strategy seems very bizarre. Blazy clearly doesn't have the commercial understanding that Lee had, and that's going to be his undoing at BV. You can't have your [design] cake and eat it too. You either design clothes and accessories that are good and desirable and at a reasonable price point, or you go and work for a different brand...

It will be a missed opportunity if they are really trying to make the clothes more expensive because the best thing about the 2010’s is that customers started really to engage with clothes.
Clothes aren’t that elitist anymore in a way (it’s just a question of sizing nowadays). Their RTW should be between Gucci and Vuitton and with their bags, if they market cleverly (iconic bags more expensive than hype designs), they can touch Hermes. Even more with exotic skin…

I would personally buy some stuff from his first collection but his peacoats shouldn’t cost more than 3500€.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

What's funniest about this is that it sounds like the exact same nail in the coffin for Calvin Klein 205W39NYC. The designs were refreshing and took a very unique perspective on Americana. The collections were critically and editorially very positively received, but stores couldn't sell the damn pieces... even during sale season at 60-75% markdowns.

That's interesting and so true because I feel like I always took away something I liked from his stuff there but I never wanted to buy any of it. Except once I bought his CK Jeans rubber cowboy boots and the sizing was totally off so I returned them. I think Raf is a cursed human being honestly.

I feel conflicted about Blazy because didn't he lead both couture and rtw at Margiela for a while? I thought he did a good job there. He's making a mistake. Not everyone has to be as expensive as Chanel. Why is this such a trend? Take a breather. The so called vibe shift everyone is talking about is definitely coming because who is gonna be able to keep up with all this sh*t lol. It's almost too easy to predict. Pop goes the bubble.

 

[Norden]

Is it really his strategy though? This pricing trend is happening everywhere. Look at Prada. Seems like a business informed direction? Ofcourse the CD could give pushback…

 

[dior_couture1245]

Is it really his strategy though? This pricing trend is happening everywhere. Look at Prada. Seems like a business informed direction? Ofcourse the CD could give pushback…

It's a very schizophrenic, counterintuitive move on the part of all these brands...to simultaneously raise the prices and then also chase teenagers. Which is it? Who are you really catering to?

 

[Frederic01]

It will be a missed opportunity if they are really trying to make the clothes more expensive because the best thing about the 2010’s is that customers started really to engage with clothes.
Clothes aren’t that elitist anymore in a way (it’s just a question of sizing nowadays). Their RTW should be between Gucci and Vuitton and with their bags, if they market cleverly (iconic bags more expensive than hype designs), they can touch Hermes. Even more with exotic skin…

I would personally buy some stuff from his first collection but his peacoats shouldn’t cost more than 3500€.

Agree 100%

The peacoats are going to be a lot more than €3500, I can tell you that right now. They are delusional with their pricing for this collection.

The leather pieces are at a ridiculous price too, like the beautiful leather skirt with fringe, which could have been a top seller if not for the price.

The thing I don’t get is that out of all the big Kering brands, BV had the most uphill battle with their RTW because of the lack of logos on items that sell en masse. And their answer to that is: remove all branding whatsoever, even the triangle and the inverted pocket, and then charge 25-50% more.

Great job Kering! That’s really going to work! Lol.

If they want to take that approach they need to at least have some small signature detail on their pieces, exactly what how Hermes does it with the Kelly lock closure, etc.

At the moment the clothing is looking very generic to be honest. Parts of it were so generic, it was veering to Acne Studios territory. And that’s not good for a brand wanting to charge that extraordinary amount of money for their pieces…

 

[Frederic01]

It's a very schizophrenic, counterintuitive move on the part of all these brands...to simultaneously raise the prices and then also chase teenagers. Which is it? Who are you really catering to?

Exactly! Thank You!!

 

[velvetandsilk]

I'm sorry to say it, but Bottega is simply not at the level of brands like Chanel and Dior, which are (for a start) Haute Couture Maisons. Secondly, these "Uber-luxury" brands really control and limit their distribution. Bottega on the other hand is selling on nearly every single online store (Net-A-Porter, Mr. Porter, Matches, Luisa Via Roma, My Theresa, Ssense, etc etc).

Therefore, I do not understand this strategy of inflating prices because they sell in such places, then some stuff it ends up on sale and the client feels a certain dissonance.

 

[Frederic01]

Therefore, I do not understand this strategy of inflating prices because they sell in such places, then some stuff it ends up on sale and the client feels a certain dissonance.

They are feeling very confident after the success of Daniel Lee, but what they failed to realise is that without Lee to steer the Bottega ship, the desire will go. He really had such a good grasp of how to market and position the brand. I hate to use the word "cool" when describing fashion, but to me, his vision for the brand really was "cool" in a way.

The whole moving away from social media, making the shows like cultural happenings (at least during the pandemic), the photography of Tyrone Lebon, etc, etc.

Right now, BV is on panic mode, because Blazy's vision has not been well received. And he is already going away from the whole aesthetic that made Bottega desirable and unique in the first place. Look at the first campaign by Blazy. The hunky Bruce Weber esque model and 80s photography. It's so off-brand! I don't get it. The mens vision they present in the shows compared to this campaign is like at complete odds with one another.

 

[perhydrol]

Look at the first campaign by Blazy. The hunky Bruce Weber esque model and 80s photography.

Honestly, I believe Matthieu had nothing to do with that campaign and that's why it looks like an off-brand non-event. But it's justified as it might have been produced in that awkward period between firing Lee and hiring Blazy. Same with those awkward accessories shots I've been getting here, on TFS. They don't really make any sense in the context of Bottega's universe.

 

[VogueDisciple93]

Moda Operandi is having a trunk show with Blazy's collection and it's true how crazy expensive it is.

modaoperandi.com

 

[susseinmcswanny]

I didn't realize those colored knit dresses were actually frogs and mushrooms lol they're cute

Also not as expensive as I expected? I feel like Daniel Lee's stuff was more expensive? Or maybe I'm just used to looking at exorbitant prices these days

 

[andrew]

they could at least not lead with cubic zirconia on a $2,500 piece of jewelry...

 

[Frederic01]

Moda Operandi is having a trunk show with Blazy's collection and it's true how crazy expensive it is.
modaoperandi.com

I see some prices were revised down (like the peacoats) but some prices went even up further (like the bags and the leather pieces). The price of that fringed leather skirt makes me laugh. It's the price of a Haute Couture piece. Like who in their right mind would pay that money for that? The costume jewellery is also ridiculously overpriced. And the shoes! LOL. Good Luck to them! I don't see anything remotely commercial or as wearable as what Daniel Lee did.

Bottega will have a huge problem in terms of competition when Phoebe Philo returns and eventually when Daniel Lee gets a new role. Blazy is just not that visionary, we can all see it from the first collection. Even when Alessandro Michele debuted at Gucci, you could see there was a strong creative mindset behind it and a momentum.

All I see from this first collection is a lot of random ideas thrown together and not much vision...

 

[reese06]

As much as I like that Mary Jane platform, the price point seems a bit far fetched for a seasonal trendy pump. Maybe the non embossed will be less.

The rtw is aggressive but Daniel Lee's was also aggressive. This doesn't seem to be any different. At least this doesn't read fashion victim.

 

[dior_couture1245]

They're getting themselves into trouble with prices like these.

These are also clothes that will not age well. They're all so time-specific to now's idea of "timeless." They don't look like clothes with good resale value, either, tbh. Like...who wants that mushroom dress? It's so out of touch.

 

[andrew]

yeah i'm not sure what the sales performance is going to be when you price floor for a simple pair of pumps is almost $1K. this is ignoring the vinyl bag for $3800 too. the list goes on...

i do admit i'm a sucker for the woven leather but those prices... aye...

 

[Frederic01]

They're getting themselves into trouble with prices like these.

These are also clothes that will not age well. They're all so time-specific to now's idea of "timeless." They don't look like clothes with good resale value, either, tbh. Like...who wants that mushroom dress? It's so out of touch.

Exactly! And when the price point is as high as that leather skirt for example, you really have to think, who are they targeting? Because the women with that kind of budget for clothes are definitely looking to Chanel and Dior and Valentino Haute Couture. For $29,000 you can buy your way into the world of Haute Couture and all the privileges that come with it.

What are you getting for that price here at Bottega? Because, I'm sorry, but the world of BV is just not as alluring and luxurious as the world of Chanel and Dior, let's be honest.

And what's more there's no stability and longevity at BV. Look at all the changes in direction over the last few years. It's way too erratic. As a customer I want to know that when I buy into a brand it's not going to do a 180 and change within the span of three years…

 

[THD96]

After seeing the Chanel €5000 t-shirt nothing shocked me anymore. At least these clothes have designs and techniques to justify their prices.

Looking through the MO website, my favorite pieces are the leathers that have the Trompe-l'œil effects to look like jeans and a white shirt.

The clothes are fairly decent prices, what I find overpriced are the bags. But everybody is raising the bag prices these so... Why not.

Also not as expensive as I expected? I feel like Daniel Lee's stuff was more expensive? Or maybe I'm just used to looking at exorbitant prices these days

Daniel's clothes are indeed more expensive. Remember those Fall 2020 sequins dresses that sold for $52000. Or the $20500 men's lace shirt. This collection seem fairly priced for me.

 

[Lola701]

After all, this is the runway collection. It will be interesting to see the prefall and the commercial collection to have a real projection. Something like the fringed skirt will be probably produced in very limited quantities for specific markets.

The pricing is insane for some pieces while understandable. Every brand has those types of pieces and prices to really speak to that 1% of the luxury customers. But tbh, there were some insanely priced pieces during the Daniel Lee era.

But the classic intrecciato has a much more desirable appeal than the supersized one.

Considering that at 9000€ you got simple leather skirt or pants, maybe an intrecciato skirt is a better idea.

We need to see the line up of products and collections. But tbh, this is quite coherent to the market today.

Those peacoats are so fabulous! I repeat myself but I’m obsessed!

 

[tricotineacetat]

The prices are laughable but so are the prices of most high end luxury label's RTW these days. I am actually concerned how the rising of retail prices leave such a huge market gap behind for people that used to buy designer in the past but who surely are not willing to pay 3000€ and upwards for a peacoat. People are smart enough to understand the making of a garment - even when made with great construction and quality materials and finishes, does not merit such a price point.

I would really understand if designer prices in the early 2000s were crazy high like that with all the fashion greats (McQueen, Galliano, Ghesquiere, Theyskens, Lagerfeld, Ford, Yohji, ...) being at the height of their career and creating the most memorable collections of their careers but none of the current crop of designers come even close to this level of originality and would therefor leave a body of work behind that is worthy to be preserved as fashion history.