Carol Christian Poell 09 Milan

[Fuuma]

I hadn't seen the coat, where was it displayed/sold?

 

[runner]

^ it's in the showroom of refrigerator

 

[softgrey]

this is beyond fashion...
really...

this is art.........it just is...

 

[softgrey]

ccp folding gate ring...
technically it is called the pantograph ring...

*please do not reproduce image below outside of this thread*

 

[runner]

thanks for posting that softgrey
the ring was originally from S/S 08 but it was certainly produced here too.


just noticed I might have sounded drunk in post #162.
I meant it's in the slaughterhouse he used as a showroom for this collection, a big refrigerator where things can freeze ( harden/get brittle ) or in reverse melt.



to harden or to disintegrate
the law that prevents him from disintegration is his jailer ( classic tailoring ).
the force that prevents him from hardening is his destroyer ( madness ).
but that is not an alternative question. ccp is a risky harmony of the polar opposite despairs.

like antea by parmigianino
image from suesue201

 

[softgrey]

runner...
i think that ccp is to you what yohji is to me..
do you understand?

tokorode...
do you think i should repost the image of the ring in another thread?
sorry i have to ask - but you understand the ccp world best...
arigatone...
...

honestly...
i almost think that we should have a thread that is just -
the alternative reality of ccp...
or something like that...
kind of like the cdg universe thread....

for me...
it makes sense to have it all in one place...
because seasons are almost irrelevant to an artist like this...

even though i know that strictly it is different each season...
it is always a continuation...rather than a whole new theme...

you are free to disagree...
i just wanted to express this thought...


**sounding drunk is funny...
BEING drunk is funnier...
...

 

[runner]

though it's not like I can say it makes me fall in love with ccp.
rather than emotional, yes drunk.
anyway frankly the work of ccp just pleases me more than that of any other designers out there who are active right now.

do you mean if you should remove the image of the ring to another thread ?
if so, I'd like the image to stay here.
I always like the original current of a thread as it is, unless there is something significantly wrong.
but the image was well shot. so I think it would be good to post it in other threads too, the S/S 08, the general thread, etc.

this collection "carol christian poell 09" is the past. this may be the last page of this thread.
and as I already said, the thread for "carol christian poell 2010" which is the current collection is the last ccp thread from me. I won't start a new one for his particular collection.
I'd like to leave things for the future to you and other members.

for reference, F/W 07 was actually talked about in the general thread #1.

and just to make it clear again
S/S 08 was the last conventionally seasonal collection so far.
the next was the collection officially called "carol christian poell 09" that was shown in the early spring of 2009.
then "carol christian poell 2010" took place in the fall of 2010, and is currently being produced and delivered to buyers.

 

[softgrey]

thank you ...
that really did make it clear this time...
so now he is naming the collection by the year in which it is designed and presented...
not the year in which it is sold - which is the conventional way...
got it!...

i'm glad you like the image of the ring...


i don't know if i could really say that i am IN love with yohji......
but i do feel some sort of something which i can only define as love...
because there is no other word for the emotions i feel...

may i ask, do you have an emotional reaction to CCP's work?
it seems to affect you in a very personal way...

 

[softgrey]

I meant it's in the slaughterhouse he used as a showroom for this collection, a big refrigerator where things can freeze ( harden/get brittle ) or in reverse, melt.

to harden...
or to disintegrate...

-the law that prevents him from disintegration is his jailer ( classic tailoring ).
-the force that prevents him from hardening is his destroyer ( madness ).

but that is not an alternative question.
ccp is a risky harmony of the polar opposite despairs.

i had to reorganize the words in order to absorb them more clearly...
i hope you don't mind...


to harden...or to disintegrate...

*it's very shakespearean somehow...
'to be or not to be...'

or maybe it's HOW to be...
to be hard and brittle...or to dissolve into nothingness...
forever trapped between the two...
in despair...

is this right?
if i am understanding this correctly...
this is astounding...
i find it so tragically beautiful and poetic...it breaks my heart...
i'm just lost for words...

......

it's all becoming clearer now...
all of it...all of the work...
it all begins to come together in a completely different way now...
amazing...


it's very intellectual...but it's also incredibly emotional...
i think i have always approached it from a more intellectual perspective without fully understanding the motive behind the designs...

even the ring makes sense in a different way now...
not just as a beautiful object...
but because of what it represents...
and all the melting...etc...
just...wow!...

wow!


......yay!...

oh---thank you runner for all of your amazing posts...


*if i am completely wrong, i don't think i want to know...
i am enjoying this moment too much...!!!...

 

[runner]

my pleasure softgrey
I don't think there is any gap between what I meant and what you received.
this may be another example that represents it in a different way, if you are interested.

but I wonder if there is some gap between my understanding of the word emotional and yours.
anyway I have to use english here, so I'd say, rather than emotions, senses.
it's more like it affects me mentally.
of course there are emotions involved here.
but speaking of emotional reaction, I had it more to altieri's work when he was active the way it used to.

 

[softgrey]

thank goodness i understood that correctly...
how embarrassing would it be if i had gotten it all wrong...?!?......



runner,
i believe you wear a good bit of altieri, no?
do you wear much CCP?
because i remember you telling me a long time ago when i was shopping for a particular shirt at atelier that the fit is very very particular and not so easy...

i suppose what i mean by an emotional reaction is something you feel when you see something or wear something...
maybe even something that cannot be expressed in words...
but it alters your state of being...and is somewhat beyond your control...

i am beginning to have a different feeling about all of CCP's work now...
as much as i have always appreciated it from a technical and design aspect...

*it's interesting...
because it is also showing me something about myself...
because somehow i think i always felt the duality of his despair...
even when i didn't know what it was i was feeling...
does that make sense...?

so maybe that is part of what i am thinking about when i speak about an emotional reaction...

sometimes we just love something and we don't even understand why...
we just can't help it...
you know?

but then later when we know more...
it becomes clearer what it is that made us love it so much...
because we understand it on an intellectual level...
but it was our emotions or our instincts (which are involuntary) that knew it first...

**so the question i'd like to ask you is...
how do you feel when you wear CCP?

 

[fenrost]

what a delight this discussion has transpired to,

i see his work from a bhuddist side of me, thats the personal and emotional attachment for me to carol's work - the realization of self aspects and surroundings. i dont expect ppl to understand, tho..

"SOLANGE ICH DEN SCHMERZ SPÜRE, MERKE ICH DASS ICH LEBE
(As long as I feel the pain, I know that I have lived.)" - Carol Christian Poell

 

[softgrey]

oh my god...!!!...

fenrost...
i always say something like that myself...
*if you can't feel the pain, you can't feel the joy*...

and i want to feel all of it!!!...

.........

fenrost...can you explain a bit more what you mean by
'the realization of self aspects and surroundings'...i would like to understand...



* maybe this is slightly OT...but...
i do feel there is some similarity to what yohji does---
and the personal torture that is expressed in each collection...
though yohji's fascination seems to be with draping and cutting while carol is obsessed with tailoring...
and maybe yohji is feeling anger more than despair...
.........

* oh dear... *
...

maybe it's best for artists like this to stay outside the fashion system as much as possible because i think that it could easily destroy them...
look at what happened to mcqueen---
having seen the exhibit at the met- i can now say that i understand even more clearly just how tortured mcqueen was by his visions and the collections they manifested into...
and then to have to try to fit into that ridiculous world of shallow silly fashion people...
that might be the worst form of torture there is...
for an artist to be surrounded by that on a regular basis and continue to flourish is unimaginable for me...

*i think i might be getting another idea for a topic...

 

[softgrey]

spiral ring...
*please do not post pic outside this thread*

 

[fenrost]

hehe..softgrey. . i think it's best for me to leave that statement ambiguous.

when it comes to clothings..i don't think think i am fashionable, i guess i am pretty boring, it's ccp or cheap nameless / vintage clothes, or much oblique designers like harnden, elena dawson, ess laboratory, etc. etc.

 

[runner]

thank goodness i understood that correctly...
how embarrassing would it be if i had gotten it all wrong...?!?......



runner,
i believe you wear a good bit of altieri, no?
do you wear much CCP?
because i remember you telling me a long time ago when i was shopping for a particular shirt at atelier that the fit is very very particular and not so easy...

i suppose what i mean by an emotional reaction is something you feel when you see something or wear something...
maybe even something that cannot be expressed in words...
but it alters your state of being...and is somewhat beyond your control...

i am beginning to have a different feeling about all of CCP's work now...
as much as i have always appreciated it from a technical and design aspect...

*it's interesting...
because it is also showing me something about myself...
because somehow i think i always felt the duality of his despair...
even when i didn't know what it was i was feeling...
does that make sense...?

so maybe that is part of what i am thinking about when i speak about an emotional reaction...

sometimes we just love something and we don't even understand why...
we just can't help it...
you know?

but then later when we know more...
it becomes clearer what it is that made us love it so much...
because we understand it on an intellectual level...
but it was our emotions or our instincts (which are involuntary) that knew it first...

**so the question i'd like to ask you is...
how do you feel when you wear CCP?

I don't wear ccp as much as altieri.
yes there is particularity of the fit, which is not a bad thing.
but I believe it is less difficult now than it was at that time.
you might find more easily something for you.
btw, the current talented pattern maker at ccp in charge of trousers is from yohji's atelier.


okay I think I understand.
it's cold, ferocious, denial, then accommodation (and back and forth maybe),
it's like that.

 

[softgrey]

i have been looking more since i read your last post runner...
and i believe you are correct...
the women's pieces i have seen from more recent collections seem much easier to wear...
thank you for pointing it out...

these clothes make you feel ferocious?......
that's pretty awesome!...


denial and accommodation---can you explain that further please...?
is that because the clothing at first seems stiff but then one begins to feel more comfortable in them?...

 

[runner]

ahh then it seems that I still didn't understand english.
that is the impression it gives to me when I'm wearing it.
I meant I feel it being cold and ferocious, and feel its denial on my body and then accommodation.
I used/thought of the meaning of accommodation as something similar to that of reception, acceptance, etc.

is that because the clothing at first seems stiff but then one begins to feel more comfortable in them?...

yes that, and also some part of it is frozen ( hard or restrictive or even aggressive ). some part is thawed ( soft, generous, kind, etc ).
so, some moment I feel rejected by it. but some moment I feel accommodated or welcomed.
there is this continuous oscillation while wearing it.

but thinking about what you said softgrey, it may make me feel a bit ferocious in some way.

 

[softgrey]

...


awesome...