Cavalli Underwear Offends

I confused!!!
*presses ctrl+alt+delete*

PS Honestly ... I have no idea about what to say ... I think I'll take the middle path, because to me, both arguments are legit.
 
I basically agree with softgrey.

and, are Hindus offended by "the using of the image" or "the image on underwear"?
I really don't see any harm to anyone with any belief by wearing a tshirt or a skirt, with printing of Jesus or Lord Rama or Mary or other religious figures.
for people who think it's different to print on shirt than underwear, I just want to know why. Are underwears themselves offensive? I don't think so. To me it's just another piece of fabric worn on the body, same as a jacket or a tshirt.
I don't wear clothes with these prints though because I don't find them appealing. But if some people like the prints and want to wear them, why not?

anyway, I think designers should stay away from religious prints (remember what Dolce and Gabbana were getting when they did theirs back then?)
 
Originally posted by MissPurple@Jun 10th, 2004 - 10:12 pm
I really don't see any harm to anyone with any belief by wearing a tshirt or a skirt, with printing of Jesus or Lord Rama or Mary or other religious figures.
I'll be plain here:
Underwear is covering and protecting your groin, which is not the most public of areas. It is not clothing that needs to be publicly paraded, it is something private and should be kept to yourself. There is nothing wrong with underwear, but not everyone needs to see it. Your privates are just that.
Secondly, religious images need to be respected. I personally believe that they are meant to elevated and departed from the physical aspects of your lives. I feel that as humans we have both a physical and spiritual side to ourselves. The spiritual side is a means of elevation and departure, of saying that we are not simply these primitive animals. If you put religious icons on such a physical section of our bodies, then you are saying that you do not respect their significance. Not only that, but you are not respecting yourself as a multi-faceted being. You are saying that you are not able to distinguish between the religious and animalistic aspects of yourself.
By wearing these symbols on your underwear, you are not only harming the icons, but you are also mocking your dignity as a human being.
That's the way I feel at least. :flower:
 
Originally posted by purplelucrezia+Jun 10th, 2004 - 10:24 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (purplelucrezia @ Jun 10th, 2004 - 10:24 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MissPurple@Jun 10th, 2004 - 10:12 pm
I really don't see any harm to anyone with any belief by wearing a tshirt or a skirt, with printing of Jesus or Lord Rama or Mary or other religious figures.
I'll be plain here:
If you put religious icons on such a physical section of our bodies, then you are saying that you do not respect their significance.

By wearing these symbols on your underwear, you are not only harming the icons, but you are also mocking your dignity as a human being.
That's the way I feel at least. :flower: [/b][/quote]
yes underwears are private, but I really don't see why putting religious print on some private fabric shows disrespect.

mocking one's dignity as a human being by wearing these? (btw, I don't wear underwears like that).
I guess I'm totally missing the point here...

:flower:
 
Originally posted by MissPurple@Jun 10th, 2004 - 10:40 pm
mocking one's dignity as a human being by wearing these? (btw, I don't wear underwears like that).
I guess I'm totally missing the point here...

:flower:
It's putting the religious imagery onto a different level. Saying that it's appropriate to use something that should be highly elavated as a piece of underwear. That we don't respect it enough to keep it away from our privates. :rolleyes:
(And yes, I do have a tendancy to be overly dramatic sometimes).
 
Getting back to the topic, Shaktiism and Shaivism--precursors of Hindusim--celebrate vulvas and penises. What better way to do that than making underwear with insignia?

Secretary Bimal Krishna Das is a mouthpiece. It's his job to fish for controversy and when there isn't any he resorts to this. Google him to find out his own bias and agenda.

This is hardly Andres Serrano' Piss Christ but even if it was, I'd still support Cavalli.
 
yes underwears are private, but I really don't see why putting religious print on some private fabric shows disrespect.

mocking one's dignity as a human being by wearing these? (btw, I don't wear underwears like that).
I guess I'm totally missing the point here...

You're missing the point because it's not you who's being affected. Why is it so hard for people to grasp the idea that making a mockery of religion is extremely offensive, especially to those who have an emotional attachment to it? I don't see the logic in non-religious people speaking on religious issues for which they have no knowledge.
 
Originally posted by ChinaLove@Jun 10th, 2004 - 11:42 pm
yes underwears are private, but I really don't see why putting religious print on some private fabric shows disrespect.

mocking one's dignity as a human being by wearing these? (btw, I don't wear underwears like that).
I guess I'm totally missing the point here...

You're missing the point because it's not you who's being affected. Why is it so hard for people to grasp the idea that making a mockery of religion is extremely offensive, especially to those who have an emotional attachment to it? I don't see the logic in non-religious people speaking on religious issues for which they have no knowledge.
the assumption that non-religious people have no knowledge of religion is incorrect and insulting...

i have a vast knowledge of many religions and do not believe in any of them...by wearing a garment with a photograph of a religious icon...i am not "making a mockery or religion" as you describe it... i am just wearing a piece of clothing i like...by telling me that i am not permitted to do so ..you are imposing your belief system on me...which is reverse religious persecution...why do people who believe in one form of religion or another have more rights than those who do not...and then do certain religions have more rights than other religions...and who decides?...very dangerous waters there...

freedom of speech should be granted to all...

it's called tolerance...and if we non-believers have to tolerate all your religious holidays and traditions etc etc......then you believers should stop being so sensitive and get a sense of humour...imo...it's only a piece of clothing!!! ;) :lol:

having said that... i would never personally wear any of that kind of thing... :lol:
 
Originally posted by purplelucrezia+Jun 10th, 2004 - 10:43 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (purplelucrezia @ Jun 10th, 2004 - 10:43 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MissPurple@Jun 10th, 2004 - 10:40 pm
mocking one's dignity as a human being by wearing these? (btw, I don't wear underwears like that).
I guess I'm totally missing the point here...

:flower:
It's putting the religious imagery onto a different level. Saying that it's appropriate to use something that should be highly elavated as a piece of underwear. That we don't respect it enough to keep it away from our privates. :rolleyes:
(And yes, I do have a tendancy to be overly dramatic sometimes). [/b][/quote]
well, I don't disrespect my private or underwear :lol:
same thing as I don't disrespect religion or religion images on my underwear (if I was wearing any).

:flower:
 
Originally posted by softgrey+Jun 11th, 2004 - 12:03 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (softgrey @ Jun 11th, 2004 - 12:03 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-ChinaLove@Jun 10th, 2004 - 11:42 pm
yes underwears are private, but I really don't see why putting religious print on some private fabric shows disrespect.

mocking one's dignity as a human being by wearing these? (btw, I don't wear underwears like that).
I guess I'm totally missing the point here...

You're missing the point because it's not you who's being affected. Why is it so hard for people to grasp the idea that making a mockery of religion is extremely offensive, especially to those who have an emotional attachment to it? I don't see the logic in non-religious people speaking on religious issues for which they have no knowledge.
the assumption that non-religious people have no knowledge of religion is incorrect and insulting...

i have a vast knowledge of many religions and do not believe in any of them...by wearing a garment with a photograph of a religious icon...i am not "making a mockery or religion" as you describe it... i am just wearing a piece of clothing i like...by telling me that i am not permitted to do so ..you are imposing your belief system on me...which is reverse religious persecution...why do people who believe in one form of religion or another have more rights than those who do not...and then do certain religions have more rights than other religions...and who decides?...very dangerous waters there...

freedom of speech should be granted to all...

it's called tolerance...and if we non-believers have to tolerate all your religious holidays and traditions etc etc......then you believers should stop being so sensitive and get a sense of humour...imo...it's only a piece of clothing!!! ;) :lol:

having said that... i would never personally wear any of that kind of thing... :lol: [/b][/quote]
:clap: :clap:
 
Can I just point out that from all the arguments I've read, this is definetly not one-dimensional.

I also agree that Secretary Bimal Krishna Das is full of sh*t, as Atelier pointed out, in the sense he is being pretentious. Though, I'm with stylegurrl and Lena.

Originally posted by stylegurrl @ Jun 10th+ 2004 - 6:00 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (stylegurrl @ Jun 10th @ 2004 - 6:00 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I think that designers are too willing to pillage other cultures for ideas and often do not respect, or even know much about, the culture whose symbols they are making use of. Perhaps with a little cultural sensitivity training, these types of situations could be avoided in the future.[/b]



Some people think they're so cool. "Oh, I'm putting Jesus on my panties." :rolleyes:

The D&G, I have no problem with, but what are they trying to say? :blink: It's cool because I got Mother Mary on my shirt. Please! :rolleyes: Design something that actually require neurons.

Originally posted by Spacemiu@
well i have very high regard for hinduism, and i would not be oposed to it if it where a artistic expesion, but it hink its just him trying to be cool.

If you notice it's the sh*tty designers who do these things. :lol: It's because they don't know really design (just riding the wave of glamour, street chic and popular culture). I agree with you, Space.

<!--QuoteBegin-Purplelucrezia

QUOTE (tangerine @ Jun 10th, 2004 - 5:07 pm)
Why do people worship symbols, anyway?


As far as I know...
It's because of what they represent, not the object itself.
[/quote]

Exactly what I was going to say.
 
I actually don't think the guy is pretentious after all.

To quote faust in the 'Che trend' thread

He must be turning in his grave. This is not just pathetic, this is truly dangerous. This is what pop-culture has become best at, assimilating any importance into a mindless blur.
 
I also want to add: The fact you are using a sacred image to sell or for design is insulting because that image is for WORSHIP, not COMMERCIALITY. ;)

It doesn't get more simple than that. ;)
 
Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Jun 11th, 2004 - 3:36 am
Personally, I disagree with a ton of statements from this topic. I honestly don't even know where to begin. I'm not a Hindu, so I can't speak for people of that faith, but I can still give my views here.
I know from past experience (Ale...) that I can find symbols to be very powerful things, especially when they are connected to religion in any way. Religion is an important part of so many peoples lives and the physical objects that are linked to it can carry almost as a great a significance as the emotional aspect. These objects symbolise a more spiritual connection, and while it may seem a bit silly, I think that the vast majority of humans identify through physical means. My personal theory is that that is one of the reasons there are so many images of Jesus being crucified. I have occationally heard the comment that such practices even border on idol worship (which is very frowned-upon in my background). I definately understand the value behind these material objects however.
I don't buy the argument that they are just panties with images and thus have no real value because they are simple pieces of clothing. In fact, (it may of course be totally different for Hindus) but in my religion, even associating a religious figure with a visible representation is not permitted. And panties! Not only are they physical, but that are also clothing, which is totally materialistic... but putting it onto panties! Yes, it is only a body part, but only a fool would fail to see the connotations. I'm not going to bother getting into that aspect of things.
Basically, not to sound overly dramatic or depressive, but worst part about this in my eyes is the loss of respect for not only religious icons, but spirituality as a whole. What shoud really be our most emotional and deep aspects are now being put onto panties of all things... :wacko: What does that say about the state of our culture? I'm honestly a bit scared by this whole sense of flippancy and lack of respect. Have we all become so materialistic and self-involved that doing things like this is now alright?
:cry:
Very true
 
Originally posted by Atelier@Jun 11th, 2004 - 5:01 am
Getting back to the topic, Shaktiism and Shaivism--precursors of Hindusim--celebrate vulvas and penises. What better way to do that than making underwear with insignia?

Secretary Bimal Krishna Das is a mouthpiece. It's his job to fish for controversy and when there isn't any he resorts to this. Google him to find out his own bias and agenda.

This is hardly Andres Serrano' Piss Christ but even if it was, I'd still support Cavalli.
Would you bring any material of Shaktiism and Shaivism into a holy temple. Are you know assuming that the religion of hinduism revolves around Shaktiism and Shaivism? If you dont like Secretary Bimal Krishna Das, fine, there are plenty of other hindu's that are offended, are they sh*t talkers too?
 
Originally posted by ignitioned32@Jun 11th, 2004 - 9:39 am
I also want to add: The fact you are using a sacred image to sell or for design is insulting because that image is for WORSHIP, not COMMERCIALITY. ;)

i so agree.. people can do everything for a quick $$
what about culture and respect?
religious symbols have a sacred history but i guess
that doesnt count when the time comes to grab more money
or get some free Press...

ethics & respect are virtues that can easily get surpassed in the fashion business
 
Originally posted by softgrey+Jun 11th, 2004 - 6:03 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (softgrey @ Jun 11th, 2004 - 6:03 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-ChinaLove@Jun 10th, 2004 - 11:42 pm
yes underwears are private, but I really don't see why putting religious print on some private fabric shows disrespect.

mocking one's dignity as a human being by wearing these? (btw, I don't wear underwears like that).
I guess I'm totally missing the point here...

You're missing the point because it's not you who's being affected. Why is it so hard for people to grasp the idea that making a mockery of religion is extremely offensive, especially to those who have an emotional attachment to it? I don't see the logic in non-religious people speaking on religious issues for which they have no knowledge.
the assumption that non-religious people have no knowledge of religion is incorrect and insulting...

i have a vast knowledge of many religions and do not believe in any of them...by wearing a garment with a photograph of a religious icon...i am not "making a mockery or religion" as you describe it... i am just wearing a piece of clothing i like...by telling me that i am not permitted to do so ..you are imposing your belief system on me...which is reverse religious persecution... [/b][/quote]
An analogy, because from what I've heard on this topic, a lot of people dont have a clue about the religion of hinduism.

I'm not american, and I know that if I wore a sept. the 11th tee, that wassn't made for rememberence, just too look cool and sort of make a little joke about it, it would offend people. But hey, I'm not american, all you americans should have a sense of humour eh? eh?

Wearing a sept the 11th tee will offend some but not all (religious print), wearing it with a joke written (wearing said religious print on underpants), will offend many, even non Americans .

To be honest, Im not offended by the pants, as I have not embraced the religion of Hinduism. However, I can understand that this will offend some people, and all you can do is make excuses as to why you can do this, offend whomever you want.

And an argument saying how they didnt mean to offend is just not valid, they did offend, and they should have know it would offend. It is common knowledge that if you wear something covering your genitals that is holy, it is sacreligious.

If you still don't understand why this offends hindus, then you are a very unempathetical person, and all this will mean very little to you.

Do whatever the hell you like, but you cannot justify offending a religion with its my right. That is what children do, take the piss out of someone and when asked why, "I can do what I want." And you ask other adults to grow up.

:neutral:
 
oh, god, this is not offensive
RobertCavalli.jpg


Who can be offended by this? There are loads of clothes with such kind of prints...

Why do people have jesus christ printed on their bags and nobody goes to protest???????????????????????????

Look, you can find jesus underwear here Jesus Underwear
 
aah Gucci I agree with you.

This society has become one filled with selfish and superficial people. They want the right to do/say whatever they please and have no regard for the feelings or beliefs of others. "Get over it' , 'lighten up' and 'don't be so serious' have replaced 'I'm sorry' or 'I understand' in conversations in which there are differences of opinion. IMO, it's very arrogant to tell someone else how to feel about an issue that affects their people or to dismiss their feelings as being unwarranted simply because they are not your own. I have had this happen to me an many an occasion and I must say, it boggles my mind how insensitive some people can be. :angry:
 

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