Cavalli Underwear Offends

[paprika_hiccup]

Originally posted by pointup@Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:00 pm

I was all for not using religious symbols until I started to realize this..... FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION... lovely thing, isn't it? I must say if we start giving up rights we are going to be in trouble.. I recently read 1984 and let me say I'm never going to London if it's been like that for 20 years...... I really can't say I want Orwell to turn in to the next Nostradamus though... So I'm off to screen print Moses on to a trucker hat

 

[softgrey]

good point paprika...and purple i think we can change the world with the choices we make...the one thing we all pretty much agree on here...is that none of us really wants to buy or wear the underwear...so we have spoken through our spending habits and the choices we've made...freedom of choice is another good thing... ...glad you like the song...

so on another note...vivenne tam had a huge commercial hit several years ago by screen printing huge buddha heads all over her collection...no one seemed to mind...in fact it sold really well and was featured on many sitcom stars...

 

[ahhGucci]

Originally posted by softgrey+Jun 11th, 2004 - 4:24 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (softgrey @ Jun 11th, 2004 - 4:24 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by ahhGucci@Jun 11th, 2004 - 4:12 am

Originally posted by softgrey@Jun 11th, 2004 - 6:03 am
<!--QuoteBegin-ChinaLove

@Jun 10th, 2004 - 11:42 pm

yes underwears are private, but I really don't see why putting religious print on some private fabric shows disrespect.

mocking one's dignity as a human being by wearing these? (btw, I don't wear underwears like that).
I guess I'm totally missing the point here...

You're missing the point because it's not you who's being affected. Why is it so hard for people to grasp the idea that making a mockery of religion is extremely offensive, especially to those who have an emotional attachment to it? I don't see the logic in non-religious people speaking on religious issues for which they have no knowledge.

the assumption that non-religious people have no knowledge of religion is incorrect and insulting...

i have a vast knowledge of many religions and do not believe in any of them...by wearing a garment with a photograph of a religious icon...i am not "making a mockery or religion" as you describe it... i am just wearing a piece of clothing i like...by telling me that i am not permitted to do so ..you are imposing your belief system on me...which is reverse religious persecution...

An analogy, because from what I've heard on this topic, a lot of people dont have a clue about the religion of hinduism.

I'm not american, and I know that if I wore a sept. the 11th tee, that wassn't made for rememberence, just too look cool and sort of make a little joke about it, it would offend people. But hey, I'm not american, all you americans should have a sense of humour eh? eh?

gucci-sept.11 has nothing to do with religion...it was a murderous attack...what is the relevance?... [/b][/quote]
a.n.a.l.o.g.y

 

[PrinceOfCats]

Originally posted by softgrey@Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:15 pm
good point paprika...and purple i think we can change the world with the choices we make...the one thing we all pretty much agree on here...is that none of us really wants to buy or wear the underwear...so we have spoken through our spending habits and the choices we've made...freedom of choice is another good thing... ...glad you like the song...

so on another note...vivenne tam had a huge commercial hit several years ago by screen printing huge buddha heads all over her collection...no one seemed to mind...in fact it sold really well and was featured on many sitcom stars...

The Buhdda is not a god...he was a man (as you know)...

I'm not getting involved in this - just pointing that out.

 

[ahhGucci]

Originally posted by softgrey@Jun 11th, 2004 - 6:00 pm
i respect everyone's points of view here...it is indeed a vicious circle...i don't believe we will find the answers here...but i appreciate the healthy debate...

i thank you all for your opinions...

i still think that anyone has a right to use whatever image they choose in any way they see fit...if you don't like it...don't buy it...no one is being forced to buy or wear the stuff...i think money speaks louder than anything else in the commercial world...that would be the most effective way to squelch something like this...imo...i think pressuring a company to discontinue selling the product is just too extreme...by making the product unavailable you are taking away someone's right to wear what they like...and i think that's wrong...that's just how i feel...

call me an idealist...

You must be living the american dream

 

[softgrey]

mmm...not relevant...

saying i can't wear that is analagous to saying you can't worship buddha or whoever...
we are talking about religion here...not politics...or terrorism...thousands of people were killed there and this is nowhere near on that level...i'm not buying it...



and i actually would not be offended...i would just think the person was an idiot... and i'd probably tell them so... and i'd get a good laugh...

 

[softgrey]

i just had an idea...can any religious icons be copyrighted?...

by say the leadership of the religion?...then they would have a say in how the images were used...

is that an option?...i would go for that maybe...

 

[paprika_hiccup]

Tops printed with Vishnu have been widespread for the past few years. I know I have seen them in trendy shops for awhile now and on the backs of many girls who were probably not Hindu. I think that the problem was that they were printed on the underwear, no?

 

[ahhGucci]

Originally posted by clay@Jun 11th, 2004 - 5:24 pm
But this other comment "Americans should have a sense of humor". Now I can tolerate your opinion, I do not have to and no one gets hurt, we will say whats on our minds. I found in my travels after Sept 11th, that many other countries i travelled to, had a similar opinion expressed. Basically implying we as a nation are babies when it comes to national terror or tragedies or we are ignorant to the realities of life, and we should get used used to it. These people seem to forget that America regualrly challanges itself to be a better nation. This particularly made me more than ever love that fact that even though America is far, far, far from perfect, it is still trying to live up to own ideals that are stated in our Constitution. Therfore, we are still idealistic that we can continually grow and improve our lives and constantly protect the rights of our citizens and our citizens safety. Our history is just as colorful as anybody elses, but we constantly have open dialogue, we can challange laws and rules in government and society and even religion. Now with the fact terrorism has come to our shores you can bet we are going to deal with with all the vigor we have in the past when it comes trying times and need for change. There is nothing funny about that, it is just reality, and we deal with it.

And SG I see less tolerance arund the world than i see here in our country by far. What makes it worse is that people are usually held to this intolerance by religion or culture. So no dialogue can even arise, nor does anyone try to change it with fear of ( you just name ). So what about the people that religion means nothing to? Do they not have a say so here as well? Well here in America we do. I like it that way also. If I do not like something I do not have to support it. But that does not mean it does not have the right to exist.
That is tolerance, not running out and killing your neighbors, burning a train full of Muslims, ostricizing your citizens that have been raped, killing your wife cause she disobeyed you, not allowing you daughter to be educated, or the entire parliment going postal on each during a assembly.If we are babies for not not doing that sh-t, I say good for us.

GC

Ohh, you're not doing those things?

 

[ahhGucci]

Originally posted by softgrey@Jun 11th, 2004 - 7:26 pm
i just want to re-iterate this statement...

quote-paprika hiccup...The world of Orwell's imagination does does pop up overnight, it is a slow process of having small freedoms taken away, one by one over many generations.

it wasn't so long ago that women and people of colour could not even vote in this country ...and in many countries around the world women have little or no rights......many people fought long and hard for our freedom...and i for one am not so willing to give it up...many people who have grown up with these privileges just take them for granted and assume they will always be there...well they won't ...not if we keep giving up small freedoms everyday...

it's called freedom of expression which is just as important as freedom of religion ...it's a beautiful thing...

Here is one thing I could not agree with more, and our worlds super power turning into a police state, where public opipions mean nothing, can't be good for the rest of the world, eh?

 

[paprika_hiccup]

Originally posted by softgrey@Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:25 pm
i just had an idea...can any religious icons be copyrighted?...

by say the leadership of the religion?...then they would have a say in how the images were used...

is that an option?...i would go for that maybe...

Uh- I doubt that could work. If it was trade-marked, people who wanted to use those symbols for religious purposes would have to pay for them. I couldn't see a religion charging followers who want to build or make something to worship their gods/goddesses. Its an interesting idea

 

[softgrey]

maybe putting gods and religious icons on clothing would be a good PR move since religion is on the decline...after all...it's free advertising...be a good way to get the word out...

especially on underwear...it might discourage sexual promiscuity if you were confronted with an image of god at the crucial moment...never know...

 

[softgrey]

Originally posted by ahhGucci+Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:30 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ahhGucci @ Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:30 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-softgrey@Jun 11th, 2004 - 7:26 pm
i just want to re-iterate this statement...

quote-paprika hiccup...The world of Orwell's imagination does does pop up overnight, it is a slow process of having small freedoms taken away, one by one over many generations.

it wasn't so long ago that women and people of colour could not even vote in this country ...and in many countries around the world women have little or no rights......many people fought long and hard for our freedom...and i for one am not so willing to give it up...many people who have grown up with these privileges just take them for granted and assume they will always be there...well they won't ...not if we keep giving up small freedoms everyday...

it's called freedom of expression which is just as important as freedom of religion ...it's a beautiful thing...

Here is one thing I could not agree with more, and our worlds super power turning into a police state, where public opipions mean nothing, can't be good for the rest of the world, eh? [/b][/quote]
stop bringing politics into this gucci...it;s complicated enough already...come on...

where do you come up with police state...nothing could be farther from the truth...it's actually london where this is taking place...

 

[paprika_hiccup]

Originally posted by ahhGucci+Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:30 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ahhGucci @ Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:30 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-softgrey@Jun 11th, 2004 - 7:26 pm
i just want to re-iterate this statement...

quote-paprika hiccup...The world of Orwell's imagination does does pop up overnight, it is a slow process of having small freedoms taken away, one by one over many generations.

it wasn't so long ago that women and people of colour could not even vote in this country ...and in many countries around the world women have little or no rights......many people fought long and hard for our freedom...and i for one am not so willing to give it up...many people who have grown up with these privileges just take them for granted and assume they will always be there...well they won't ...not if we keep giving up small freedoms everyday...

it's called freedom of expression which is just as important as freedom of religion ...it's a beautiful thing...

Here is one thing I could not agree with more, and our worlds super power turning into a police state, where public opipions mean nothing, can't be good for the rest of the world, eh? [/b][/quote]
I don't believe that public opinion means nothing today. I just think that the majority of citizens are all too content to give up their personal freedoms, as its being done under the guise of national security. People are NOT thinking about the future, they are thinking about the recent horror of 9/11, not the long-term tconsequences of giving up their rights to privacy and expression.

 

[ahhGucci]

Originally posted by softgrey@Jun 11th, 2004 - 8:23 pm
mmm...not relevant...

saying i can't wear that is analagous to saying you can't worship buddha or whoever...
we are talking about religion here...not politics...or terrorism...thousands of people were killed there and this is nowhere near on that level...i'm not buying it...



and i actually would not be offended...i would just think the person was an idiot... and i'd probably tell them so... and i'd get a good laugh...

Yes relevant, do I need to explain how I use a simple tool of language, exactly how I use it?
Wearing that tee shirt would be a political act, and you can ask any fool and find that what happenes in politics, is very similar indeed to what happens in religion, dont make me explain how the two are so intertwined.
Now you understand what an analogy is right?
If explain how current flows in an electrical circuit, i can use the analogy of how water flows in a water system. Electrical current and water are two completely different, irrelevant things, but in this case, they ACT THE SAME! Do you understand? Shall I spell more out?

I should just throw a dictionary at you

 

[ahhGucci]

Originally posted by paprika_hiccup+Jun 11th, 2004 - 8:37 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (paprika_hiccup @ Jun 11th, 2004 - 8:37 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by ahhGucci@Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:30 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-softgrey

@Jun 11th, 2004 - 7:26 pm
i just want to re-iterate this statement...

quote-paprika hiccup...The world of Orwell's imagination does does pop up overnight, it is a slow process of having small freedoms taken away, one by one over many generations.

it wasn't so long ago that women and people of colour could not even vote in this country ...and in many countries around the world women have little or no rights......many people fought long and hard for our freedom...and i for one am not so willing to give it up...many people who have grown up with these privileges just take them for granted and assume they will always be there...well they won't ...not if we keep giving up small freedoms everyday...

it's called freedom of expression which is just as important as freedom of religion ...it's a beautiful thing...

Here is one thing I could not agree with more, and our worlds super power turning into a police state, where public opinions mean nothing, can't be good for the rest of the world, eh?

I don't believe that public opinion means nothing today. I just think that the majority of citizens are all too content to give up their personal freedoms, as its being done under the guise of national security. People are NOT thinking about the future, they are thinking about the recent horror of 9/11, not the long-term tconsequences of giving up their rights to privacy and expression. [/b][/quote]
Dear, I stress the words, turning into. I think public opinion mater at the moment, and I hope that is the case for the future.

 

[softgrey]

Originally posted by ahhGucci+Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:38 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ahhGucci @ Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:38 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-softgrey@Jun 11th, 2004 - 8:23 pm
mmm...not relevant...

saying i can't wear that is analagous to saying you can't worship buddha or whoever...
we are talking about religion here...not politics...or terrorism...thousands of people were killed there and this is nowhere near on that level...i'm not buying it...



and i actually would not be offended...i would just think the person was an idiot... and i'd probably tell them so... and i'd get a good laugh...

Yes relevant, do I need to explain how I use a simple tool of language, exactly how I use it?
Wearing that tee shirt would be a political act, and you can ask any fool and find that what happenes in politics, is very similar indeed to what happens in religion, dont make me explain how the two are so intertwined.
Now you understand what an analogy is right?
If explain how current flows in an electrical circuit, i can use the analogy of how water flows in a water system. Electrical current and water are two completely different, irrelevant things, but in this case, they ACT THE SAME! Do you understand? Shall I spell more out?

I should just throw a dictionary at you [/b][/quote]
...hey watch where you're throwing that thing...

i don't think politics and religion should be so intertwined...maybe they are to some extent...but religious panties don't equate to global terrorism in my book...

that's all...

 

[ahhGucci]

Originally posted by softgrey+Jun 11th, 2004 - 8:36 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (softgrey @ Jun 11th, 2004 - 8:36 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by ahhGucci@Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:30 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-softgrey

@Jun 11th, 2004 - 7:26 pm
i just want to re-iterate this statement...

quote-paprika hiccup...The world of Orwell's imagination does does pop up overnight, it is a slow process of having small freedoms taken away, one by one over many generations.

it wasn't so long ago that women and people of colour could not even vote in this country ...and in many countries around the world women have little or no rights......many people fought long and hard for our freedom...and i for one am not so willing to give it up...many people who have grown up with these privileges just take them for granted and assume they will always be there...well they won't ...not if we keep giving up small freedoms everyday...

it's called freedom of expression which is just as important as freedom of religion ...it's a beautiful thing...

Here is one thing I could not agree with more, and our worlds super power turning into a police state, where public opipions mean nothing, can't be good for the rest of the world, eh?

stop bringing politics into this gucci...it;s complicated enough already...come on...

where do you come up with police state...nothing could be farther from the truth...it's actually london where this is taking place... [/b][/quote]
OK softgrey, care to read back? Read the topic, and you will find that I did not, bring politics, into this. If others share a political opinion, and i comment on it, I am not starting the political arguemnt, I am not bringing politics into it. Why don't you tell anyone else to not bring politics into this? How about the people who did?

And dont ask for names, read the thread yourself, lets not turn this into a commie witch hunt blargh

 

[ahhGucci]

Originally posted by softgrey+Jun 11th, 2004 - 8:43 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (softgrey @ Jun 11th, 2004 - 8:43 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by ahhGucci@Jun 11th, 2004 - 2:38 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-softgrey

@Jun 11th, 2004 - 8:23 pm
mmm...not relevant...

saying i can't wear that is analagous to saying you can't worship buddha or whoever...
we are talking about religion here...not politics...or terrorism...thousands of people were killed there and this is nowhere near on that level...i'm not buying it...



and i actually would not be offended...i would just think the person was an idiot... and i'd probably tell them so... and i'd get a good laugh... 

Yes relevant, do I need to explain how I use a simple tool of language, exactly how I use it?
Wearing that tee shirt would be a political act, and you can ask any fool and find that what happenes in politics, is very similar indeed to what happens in religion, dont make me explain how the two are so intertwined.
Now you understand what an analogy is right?
If explain how current flows in an electrical circuit, i can use the analogy of how water flows in a water system. Electrical current and water are two completely different, irrelevant things, but in this case, they ACT THE SAME! Do you understand? Shall I spell more out?

I should just throw a dictionary at you

...hey watch where you're throwing that thing...

i don't think politics and religion should be so intertwined...maybe they are to some extent...but religious panties don't equate to global terrorism in my book...

that's all... [/b][/quote]
ANALOGY!!!! Why doesn't your book have analogy in it????

 

[softgrey]

i didn't say you started it dear...i just asked you to stop...and i forgot to say please...so i'll say it now...