Culture, Aesthetics and Fashion Discussion

[kit]

I've been wondering about that recently. Everyone is hailing the american consumer for helping this economy ride out the recession. But, these purchases are mostly made on credit. I wonder how much can the economy handle, before the consumers start to default on their debt (and it may never happen on the big enough scale, of course). It seems that the consumer mentality shifted from "can i afford this" to "buy now, think later".

ABSOLUTELY , Faust B)

We over here are living on credit , mostly funded by taking out equity on the value of one's house - upping the mortgage to take out the increase in your house's value .

After the next election when Bliar has got back and taxes and interest rates are increased ...........

Apres moi , le deluge ...........

 

[softgrey]

i had to stop using my credit cards...it was too hard to keep up with them...

now i just use my debit card...it's the only way for me...
this way...if i don't have it ...i don't spend it....
i had become very good at juggling balances...borrowing from peter to pay paul...
it's a nasty little spiral you can get caught up in very easily...especially when you know that everyone around you is doing it too...

 

[kit]

oh kit...thou speakest the name of my fair lady amand harlech...... (speaketh?) [/QUOTE] Softgrey



Actually , to put this thread back on track ( probably due to my own ramblings ) ,

Amanda Harlech !!!

THERE'S an AMERICAN fashion icon with the acme of chic .

Forget Anna Piaggi and Isabella Blow

They are just pantomime dames

And Anna Wintour is just a failed dominatrix .........

 

[softgrey]

what do you mean?..she's british...no?

 

[tealady]

...hilarous...
i agree that many british men are actually quite a bit more style conscious than their american counterparts...but i think that can be said...(here comes another generalisation...)...of most men outside the US...
tealady...what's canada like?....

I really couldn't tell you much about Canada. I visited Victoria last year and many years ago went to Banff. There must be Canadians here who can enlighten us.

 

[kit]

what do you mean?..she's british...no?

I think she's american , but I could be wrong .

 

[softgrey]

nah baby...she's an eccentric brit...
that's one of the things i love about her...
now THAT is a woman with style...i might have to start a thread on her...

 

[kit]

I think she's american , but I could be wrong .

JUST missed your latest post Soft

She was formally , Amanda Grieve , but Google has not yielded any clues .

Anybody with the correct info out there ?

 

[softgrey]

i want someone to talk about the japanese/asian culture and how they feel and relate to fashion/aesthetics...

have we got anyone who can shed some light here?...

and what about australia...i'm more and more curious...and what about africa???...and russia...???

 

[Fade to Black]

i want someone to talk about the japanese/asian culture and how they feel and relate to fashion/aesthetics...

have we got anyone who can shed some light here?...

and what about australia...i'm more and more curious...and what about africa???...and russia...???

Well, coming from Hong Kong I have to say there is not much style in that town, despite it being an influential Asian metropolis. A lot of the Hong Kong aesthetic, as I see it is very loud and label whorish...people will wear anything that costs a lot, a lot of sheep mentality...the ugliest example that sticks out in my mind is this magazine column writer was wearing a CdG H+ pink ankle-length overcoat with 45 rpm jeans and white HTM AF1 sneakers in one shoot, then talks about buying Dior Homme and Alexander McQueen in another, basically anything that has a four figure price tag...there's nothing wrong with having different styles, but when a person is simply wearing the clothes because they are exclusive and can't even bring some life to the clothes I think it is quite sad. And that is a problem there, a lot of people don't wear their clothes with much flair, I relate to a European aesthetic much more. Or even the Japanese, who I think have a great aesthetic and show much creativity and individuality in the way they dress, whether it's thrift shop or high fashion.

BTW I am not saying everyone in Hong Kong is a fashion victim, as I personally know quite a few people from there who have great style and apparently there are even members on this board from Hong Kong who know what they're doing, such as my fellow Dior Homme fans raimund and doo888 for example.

 

[Fade to Black]

Also an interesting point I'd like to bring up is the buyers of Hong Kong boutiques...I find that the selection of New York stores such as Barneys, A, etc. is more tasteful than the items bought by the same designers at Hong Kong stores such as Joyce, Lane Crawford, etc...I wonder if what the shops buy is dictated by the general preferences of shoppers or are shoppers limited in their options because of what the stores carry? But then the latter doesn't make too much sense...since one can always shop online and overseas!

 

[faust]

Also an interesting point I'd like to bring up is the buyers of Hong Kong boutiques...I find that the selection of New York stores such as Barneys, A, etc. is more tasteful than the items bought by the same designers at Hong Kong stores such as Joyce, Lane Crawford, etc...I wonder if what the shops buy is dictated by the general preferences of shoppers or are shoppers limited in their options because of what the stores carry? But then the latter doesn't make too much sense...since one can always shop online and overseas!

I hear Joyce are real fascists when it comes to dealing with the up-and-coming designers.

 

[Fade to Black]

I hear Joyce are real fascists when it comes to dealing with the up-and-coming designers.

Hmm...I guess you can say this. Although I've heard they are now carrying Rick Owens (not sure if he's up and coming though)...they pretty much cater to your typical loaded Hong Kong fashionista, with loads of Y-3, the commercial Dior Homme items, DSquared, etc. It's a shame that Yohji Yamamoto (main label) is only carried in the Central branch and the selection is quite small too. There is a store that sells Y's by Yohji in Causeway Bay though. According to my parents a LONG time ago (like I think 70's-80's) there was an official Yohji Yamamoto boutique in Hong Kong but it closed down...I guess that might tell you something about Hong Kong tastes...

I think I.T. is better for up and coming designers, if I remember correctly i think they carry Ann D (somebody correct me if I'm wrong)...but there's also your typical trash like those CdG X Fred Perry shirts.

 

[softgrey]

ftb...what is the culture like there...is personal expression valued or frowned upon...are there many artists?...are there many art galleries or museums?...
what kind of music is popular?...
thx...

 

[Fade to Black]

Personal expression...i think it's valued if you have the proper backing for it, i.e. the suits are marketing you as a star that the masses will digest. For example Edison Chen, a Hong Kong actor/singer I would say is the closest thing we have to a mainstream star who has full freedom to express what he wants in the form of music, film, clothing or whatever and has major support. Museums and galleries...I've been to some museums that displayed artifacts from old Hong Kong, some other general knowledge museums with stuff about space and science...not familiar with the art scene.

As for the music, aww man don't get me started on this...your typical canto-pop that is produced in Hong Kong is cookie-cutter trash for the most part. Surprisingly, the only singer that I like, Joey Yung, is one of the most popular singers in HK...but other than her a lot of the stuff that comes out is unlistenable (to me, at least...I cringe when I listen to a lot of the fast paced HK pop like Boy'z or Yumiko Cheng...haha only in Hong Kong can a group have the name "Boy'z" and still become popular, that would NEVER fly in 21st century america). Musical tastes in Hong Kong are very fickle too, albums from one artist come out as often as People Magazine it seems. I'm not familiar with the independent scene in HK though, so maybe there's some good stuff there I just dont feel like looking for it.

 

[Fade to Black]

haha oh man that actually became an off topic rant, i don't think any of that had anything to do with this topic. Anyway, carry on...

 

[softgrey]

no...it all did ftb...the topic is about culture...and you were describing your take on the culture in hong kong...that was good...

thx...

i guess you're saying that a lot of emphasis is placed on wealth and material goods and status symbols...like designer labels as opposed to good design...

is that it?...

so...do they listen to much western music there?...do they have western tv programs...do they watch much tv...what do people do for entertainment?...

 

[Fade to Black]

i guess you're saying that a lot of emphasis is placed on wealth and material goods and status symbols...like designer labels as opposed to good design...

is that it?...

YES! That's exactly the point I was trying to make... thanks for putting it so eloquently in so few words

It's all very superficial to me...too much emphasis on materialism and wealth, and we have a phrase in cantonese for it... "Bai Gum Zu Yee" which basically translates into "Gold-worshipping idealism"...and it's the reason why even though I miss home so much whenever I go back after 3 weeks I can't stand it any longer.

I dunno...a lot of people I've met from there, especially growing up seemed very fake to me...there was a kid who I used to be friends with, well I guess you can say he was a friend...haven't seen him in half a decade, saw him over the thanksgiving break and he has become the biggest social climber I've ever seen...even though he's a male college student, he seems to embody the image of the "Yeen sut" or "realistic" Hong Kong adult, although this is an image usually reserved for golddigging whores ... what I mean to say is he will kiss your *** when you have something he needs, but as soon as you are no longer "useful" in his eyes he will discard you, or even try to hurt you...his transformation is one that's typical, pathetic, disappointing, yet almost inevitable and expected in some ways I guess. Oh but I digress...

 

[softgrey]

hmm...sounds like a lot of people in ny...

 

[Fade to Black]

And to answer your last few questions, yes aspects of Western culture do seep into the Hong Kong lifestyle...even though we only have 4 main TV channels (basically 2 networks, each has a Chinese and English channel), the English channels play the latest Sitcoms and shows and are actually quite caught up...it's only a season behind I think. There are many people here who appreciate Western music, actually you can find pretty much any new American/British music release at the HMV and Hong Kong Records stores here....for entertainment, of course there's the Hong Kong cinema which has a high turnover these days, basically translating into forgettable films that one watches to get their latest entertainment fix, but there is occasionally a local gem from the likes of Wong Kar Wai and such, and there are quite a few talented actors/actresses but I feel they're not always used to their maximum potential. The American movies are sometimes delayed a few weeks from the U.S. releases though...

Other things to do, there is the nightlife, bars/clubs in Mong Kok/Tsim Sha Tsui (Kowloon side, more localized) and the more westernized clubs of Hong Kong island where the kids who are studying abroad in U.S., Canada, etc. go to party a lot. Horse racing is big in Hong Kong...I spent a lot of last summer gambling horses, it's fun, addictive, and can be quite harmless as long as you're not gambling huge amounts. One can often bet $10 HKD (Less than $2 USD) and if you pick right you can walk away with hundreds (in US dollars). It's also a good way for me to bond with my grandparents, as I would sit glued to my T.V. with my grandmother every Wednesday and Saturday hoping I managed to win.

Any other questions, feel free to ask and I will answer to the best of my ability...summer 2004 was actually the first time I went back in quite a while and I feel there's a lot of stuff going on with the young people there that I'm not quite in touch with yet. It has its flaws, but it also has its charms and it is the city I call home, after all...