Culture, Aesthetics and Fashion Discussion

[helena]

Its good to set the scene again, hope thats ok?

yes agreed softgrey - scandinavians generally are very style & design conscious. They are very well represented here on tFS - design, crafts, architecture - they excell at all those things.

I would say that the brits are not very aesthetically focused. Do the fellow brits agree?

So what about the US? is the division a red/blue one ?

 

[softgrey]

is the division a red/blue one?...hmmm...
i think that would be impossible to determine...most people do not announce their political leanings...so it's hard to even know who is what...

but i would say that more liberal-minded people are generally more apt to explore new ideas and try new things...that is what liberal basically means...

conservatives are...well, conservative...and so would probably be more apt to go with the flow rather than stand out...or stray too far from the norm...

i guess that makes sense really...and it's the conservatives who are cutting all the funding for the arts in schools...so maybe they don't place as high a value on it...

i'm not really sure...

 

[helena]

softgrey - i think thats probably right......

 

[orlem]

So what about the US? is the division a red/blue one ?

A lot of the liberals in the US don't see fashion as anything but consumerism and status fixation. So they tend to shun the fashion and style areas as being kind of vain.

 

[faust]

Okay I've reread and back on topic. I actually think that is style in born or can it be created, should be a whole seperate topic. This is about culture and aesthetics, not about where style comes from.

anyway, I found this quotation of your's Faust particular interesting, especially in regards to the religion thread. You mocked those who had a belief or faith in God and yet to me, this is the exact same thing. Some see God (or in this case Buddha) in the everyday physicality of the world but I thought in the other thread that you mocked that sort of faith? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, there are plenty of crap buildings in Europe too. We have to remember that some of the beautiful statuesque buildings are there because Europe has a history. Yes, they have a different perspective, and will allow different architecture to be built, I think that there is sort of a mass cultural rebellion against mainstream but that those who join this underground rebellion join often not knowing or caring for the cause, just as long as it is indie, or underground or not mainstreams which to me is just the same thing, only on a smaller scale.

Ahh.. I don't know what your knowledge about Buddhism is, but I think you should read up on it before posting. Buddhism is not a religion. Yes, let me say this again, Buddhism is not a religion. Read up on it, and then we can continue this discussion.

Also, I'd appreciate if you did not quote a little phrase (that's what journalists do when they try to take someone else's words out of context), but my entire post. It referrs to excellence and quality. Buddha is the term the author used to unite Eastern and Western ways of thinking. Better yet, read the book I quoted from, it's really worth it.

 

[faust]

Its good to set the scene again, hope thats ok?

yes agreed softgrey - scandinavians generally are very style & design conscious. They are very well represented here on tFS - design, crafts, architecture - they excell at all those things.

I would say that the brits are not very aesthetically focused. Do the fellow brits agree?

So what about the US? is the division a red/blue one ?

Also agree with Softie, totally depends on the country.

In the US, I'd say there is Manhattan, some parts of San Fran, and then there is this whole other country which I wouldn't want to move to ... Generalizing, of course

 

[helena]

Also agree with Softie, totally depends on the country.

In the US, I'd say there is Manhattan, some parts of San Fran, and then there is this whole other country which I wouldn't want to move to ... Generalizing, of course

thats the problem - you have to generalise to make anything of this conversation but then you get slated for making sweeping statements.....

 

[Meg]

Faust, I wasn't talking about religion either. I was talking about God. And I would appreciate not being talked down to about what journalists do. I'm not trying to argue about what is and is not Buddhism, merely saying, that you said that you see Buddha in excellence, beauty around you, and some people see God in that and yet I thought you mocked that. I was just trying for clarification.

Helena, I think you get slated for making generalizations because there are exceptions to everything and it's unfair to the people of a region to completely write them off? I'm not sure.

 

[clueless]

I also submit the theory that many of the women lionized as style icons weren't acutally that interesting of dressers, they were simply pretty girls with expensive clothes. Audrey Hepburn, Grace Kelley, and Jackie Kennedy being the perennials. They'd look damn good in pretty much anything, simply because they had very good facial features. All three of them played it pretty safe style-wise, IMO, but "we" love them because they made unremarkable clothes look so good.

I guess well never know wether they snuck a few 'cheapies' into their wardrobe, but while it can be considered safe by some, often a lot of thought goes into those kinds of looks. No matter what you're style is, you still want to hunt down that perfect peice that you really, really love, that just is so 'you' for some, it might be a simple black jacket, to some it could be...well, anything. Outrageous or conservative.
I'm just saying this cause, to me, these womens outfits (and most everything else about them) was very remarable. I don't love Audrey Hepburns style because I think she never put a foot wrong. I love it because she always got it so right.
Anyway, just my thoughts...
Was that even remotely related to the topic? Sometimes you can't tell who puts a lot of effort into their style....because people could come up with anything!

 

[clueless]

ok...well thanks for lightening things up a bit...night night...

Hey, I know what I'm good for.

 

[softgrey]

A lot of the liberals in the US don't see fashion as anything but consumerism and status fixation. So they tend to shun the fashion and style areas as being kind of vain.

that's a good point...i wasn't thinking about it that way...but of course that is true...the very liberal people are against the whole idea of mass consumption and our disposable society...and eschew all those things...

but that doesn't mean that they're not stylish...because you can have great personal style without falling victim to the marketing machine...perhaps even more so because you are thinking for yourself and not following trends...

so i would say that both statements are true actually...

 

[softgrey]

Also agree with Softie, totally depends on the country.

In the US, I'd say there is Manhattan, some parts of San Fran, and then there is this whole other country which I wouldn't want to move to ... Generalizing, of course

but isn't the south also it's own little category...?...they have their own specific ideas about what is and isn't stylish...

then there's the southwest..which is basically desert...so they have their own style too...actually... alot of artists live in arizona and new mexico and dress in a way that is very specific to that region...

and of course...we all know about the northwest...and seattle...which sparked an entire fashion movement with grunge...

though some may not like it...there is definitely a specific style common to each of those regions...

 

[PrinceOfCats]

I would say that the brits are not very aesthetically focused. Do the fellow brits agree?

Britain is too schizo to be aesthetic.

 

[stilista]

Britain is too schizo to be aesthetic.

I agree....

I think people in Britain tend to dress down to avoid standing out & drawing attention to themselves. The whole LA look is slowly creeping in, but only with a certain type (usually women old enough to know better) but on the whole I think Britons are a very dowdy bunch.

People are afraid of someone asking "who does she think she is?!"

 

[Johnny]

Britain is too schizo to be aesthetic.

Don't really know what you're getting at with that PoC (although I'd like you to explain), but anyway, I agree that Brits are not at all aesthetically focussed, on the whole. We're definately influenced by the LA trash thing - except the bellies on display here tend to be rahter more substantial (if no less chemically brown)! There are "pockets of resistance", but they are, really, few and far between.

This would be my assesment of the current main movements in British notions of aesthetics:-

Vast Majority - chav/chavettes/chavlets (baby chavs) - you know the drill - gold chains, pink lippy, white shellsuits (tucked into sports socks), white running shoes, bra tops (but no bras), and burberry, burberry, burberry...

Followed by (although some degree of overlap with chavs) - mediocre high street style - girls wearing what sienna miller wore last year and guys wearing (a) white trainers (b) slightly flared washed out non-selveged jeans (d) cheap print tee shirt (usually red or pink or green, possibly with some kind of semi-offensive slogan directed at females so that females come up to them in bars to dicuss said slogans as a precursor to some kind of sexual activity) and either zip up top or cheap pinstripe blazer

Followed by - students (although some degree of overlap with mediocre high street style ("MHSS")) - almost the same as MHSS, but with converse trainers, and the occassional bit of more "high end" streetwear - Stussy etc.

Followed by - street stylee - (althogh, yep, same as before... ) vintage jeans, tsubi jeans, rogans, g-star etc, but always some kind of jeans, limited edition trainers, Nike, New Balance or Addidas, more abstract arty print tee shirt - by silas, tonite, bape, maybe even undercover

Followed by - rich b*tch/bloke designer - prada, gucci, loads of money, entirely no style

Followed by - London Trendy - shops in Browns, Koh Samui, Matches - marc jacobs, helmut lang, chloe, stella m, same amount of money as above, marginally more style

Followed by - the five or six indiviuals who are left, and not covered by the above, all of whom , I assume are members of tfs!

 

[tealady]

Followed by - the five or six indiviuals who are left, and not covered by the above, all of whom , I assume are members of tfs!

What about that tweedy, tailored, country gentleman/woman look for which the British are "famous?" Does it still exist? Did it ever exist? Now that I think of it, [beware, broad generalisation ahead] Britain is the only country in which I have lived or traveled where the men are more likely to be better dressed than the women.

(running away now)

 

[Johnny]

What about that tweedy, tailored, country gentleman/woman look for which the British are "famous?" Does it still exist? Did it ever exist? Now that I think of it, [beware, broad generalisation ahead] Britain is the only country in which I have lived or traveled where the men are more likely to be better dressed than the women.

(running away now)

You're right actually I missed that group out. They still exist but are very much a minority. It's virtually a uniform anyway, dictated entirely by tradition, which is not a bad thing as such.

I probably missed loads more out. Im sure someone will point it out if I have!

Actually there is one other that I've thought of - the businessman at the weekend. During the week, it's just a suit, another uniform, but at the weekend - oh freedom! Except that freedom here = chinos, loafers/boat shoes/trainer-shoe hybrids (all brown), and a button down shirt. Oh, and don't forget the expensive Rohan/Berghaus jacket, usually bought in an identical pair for husband and wife. Just so they can both look sh*t. I can't beleive I forgot that one! They're all over the place. The Riders of Rohan!

 

[helena]

johnny - are you talking about the 18-35 age group mainly? Tealady - only much older people wear plus fours & wax jackets & green wellies - known as the Green Welly Brigade.

 

[helena]

ah yes the Riders of Rohan are everywhere!

 

[softgrey]

What about that tweedy, tailored, country gentleman/woman look for which the British are "famous?" Does it still exist? Did it ever exist? Now that I think of it, [beware, broad generalisation ahead] Britain is the only country in which I have lived or traveled where the men are more likely to be better dressed than the women.

(running away now)

...hilarous...
i agree that many british men are actually quite a bit more style conscious than their american counterparts...but i think that can be said...(here comes another generalisation...)...of most men outside the US...
tealady...what's canada like?....


oh johnny...you are bound for a bashing now...