Culture, Aesthetics and Fashion Discussion
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softgrey
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ha!....i never knew...very interesting...many asian men who are interested in fashion...and style...
is this common in asian culture...?
do asian men generally have something similar to the latin man's machismo and the european man's grooming...?... a sort of ego and vanity?...
is this common in asian culture...?
do asian men generally have something similar to the latin man's machismo and the european man's grooming...?... a sort of ego and vanity?...
softgrey said:
I'd say no:-) Vietnamese men are mostly interested in making money, which is good in our economical situation, I think:-)
To be a man in our (vietnamese) understanding is to have a career. It means not only money, but a good position in society, to have a (traditional) role. And to have possibilities to help your families. Your hobbies and interests are not very important. Your appearances are not soo important, as long as you look traditionally. You are the one to raise your family, not to enjoy your life:-))
Ofcourse, there are ideas of masculine beauty in literature. And I think it rather concerns the face, not the body. I only remember the "samurai type":-) - "quadratic" face, sharp eyes, heavy brows. This is the face of the "leader":-). In Vietnam young girls also like the "poet type", or "schoolboy type", with cute and romantic face. But it could be a french influence, I suppose.
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nqth said:
That is a very good point. Hedi has made some comments about that in the past and the teasers for today's show hint toward that. We shall find out today.
Personally I was attracted to the artistry of the earlier collections. However now that I find the clothes less imaginative they are more desirable. My complaint about earlier dior homme was that it was so damn hard to wear. I suppose that is the fun. I am enjoying Hedi's very wearable clothes. It's totally fitting and approriate for now. But one has to wonder if you are willing to pay $400 for a pair of vintage levi copies you could just distress yourself?
Albert and doo888, thank you for your excellent analysis. Very fascinating. The more I think about it the more I am beginning to develop the idea I have been toying with for a while now about how people's actions are as much character-based as they are culture-based. What I'm hearing is that regardless of race, the fascination with showing off wealth prevails in most societies. More and more I wonder whether showing off wealth is not as much an issue of culture (derision of the shallow material wealth vs. the bling bling worship of it), but simply a matter of means (the desire already present in the majority). I am looking here at the new economies, and getting back to Russia. Everything you guys say about HK, China, Japan can be applied there as well. I am sure the same can be said about other emerging economies (i.e. the new members of the EU). I am very tempted to blame the culture here, but I would like to avoid that trap.
I would like to point to something else, something that can be called a satiation principle. Imagine this, you are a victim of a shipwreck, you drift around the ocean for weeks without food, and then you are saved by another ship. The captain lays out a lavish feast for you. What do you do first? Do you go for caviar and champagne, or do you gorge on anything within your arms reach? You do the letter, of course. But, once you are full and the initial hunger subsides, you start picking the better pieces. In a few days you do stick with caviar and champagne. The same can be applied to the emerging economies. People in Soviet Russia did not have access to the luxuries of the western world. After the collaps of SU the people who could afford (and they were by far not the paradigms of humant intellect and culture) it, jumped on everything they could get their hands on. But what were the means of communicating luxury to them? Western magazines, big advertisers, Champes-Elysee shops. Do you see an Ann Demeulemeester boutique on Champes-Elysee? Do you see her advertise in Vogue? No.
However, once the shipwrecked gorged on their Versace (and they still do), and at the same time (and it took time) more people became richer (not the criminals and pop-stars), more choices were needed. People started looking at different things, more complex things, more subtle things, the non-kitsch (because make no mistake, Russia has an incredible cultural heritage and a very diverse and vast art scene). Hence, proliferation of stores like Le Form (a.k.a. Faust's-Wet-Dream http://www.leform.ru).
And the same analysis can be applied to any country, whether it was France during Louis XIV, the U.S. during the 1920's, or China today.
One can say, what about the blingbling culture proliferating in the US/UK (and I'm sure in the continental Europe too, but not as much maybe). I can only point to the celebrity culture, and to bring your attention to the background of most celebrities. The Jay-Z's and the Beckham's of today, where were they yesterday? Just as poor and uneducated. Just as much without the means of attaining the material wealth as those in Soviet Russia.
So, these are a few thoughts. The analysis are incomplete of course. I haven't touched upon the individual character as much as I should've. Who knows what other factors are there. The cause for the action is always complex and probably can never be fully explained, but we can always give each other food for thought
.
It would be interesting to hear Runner's thoughts on this thread.
I would like to point to something else, something that can be called a satiation principle. Imagine this, you are a victim of a shipwreck, you drift around the ocean for weeks without food, and then you are saved by another ship. The captain lays out a lavish feast for you. What do you do first? Do you go for caviar and champagne, or do you gorge on anything within your arms reach? You do the letter, of course. But, once you are full and the initial hunger subsides, you start picking the better pieces. In a few days you do stick with caviar and champagne. The same can be applied to the emerging economies. People in Soviet Russia did not have access to the luxuries of the western world. After the collaps of SU the people who could afford (and they were by far not the paradigms of humant intellect and culture) it, jumped on everything they could get their hands on. But what were the means of communicating luxury to them? Western magazines, big advertisers, Champes-Elysee shops. Do you see an Ann Demeulemeester boutique on Champes-Elysee? Do you see her advertise in Vogue? No.
However, once the shipwrecked gorged on their Versace (and they still do), and at the same time (and it took time) more people became richer (not the criminals and pop-stars), more choices were needed. People started looking at different things, more complex things, more subtle things, the non-kitsch (because make no mistake, Russia has an incredible cultural heritage and a very diverse and vast art scene). Hence, proliferation of stores like Le Form (a.k.a. Faust's-Wet-Dream http://www.leform.ru).
And the same analysis can be applied to any country, whether it was France during Louis XIV, the U.S. during the 1920's, or China today.
One can say, what about the blingbling culture proliferating in the US/UK (and I'm sure in the continental Europe too, but not as much maybe). I can only point to the celebrity culture, and to bring your attention to the background of most celebrities. The Jay-Z's and the Beckham's of today, where were they yesterday? Just as poor and uneducated. Just as much without the means of attaining the material wealth as those in Soviet Russia.
So, these are a few thoughts. The analysis are incomplete of course. I haven't touched upon the individual character as much as I should've. Who knows what other factors are there. The cause for the action is always complex and probably can never be fully explained, but we can always give each other food for thought
.It would be interesting to hear Runner's thoughts on this thread.
i just wanted to mention that there is an article entitled "vision, ritual and the future of fashion" by glenn o´brien in the dec/jan issue of BlackBook that deals with problems and ideas similar to this thread.
sorry if it has been mentioned before!
sorry if it has been mentioned before!
You are welcome, Softgrey:-)
Faust I think that people who see fashion as innovative design, or even arts, usually choose "alternative" designers, like Ann D, Raf S., Comme, Yohji and many others. It's for people who are not interested in glamour or status aspect of fashion.
Versace could be a "bad" example, because they do celebrities' clothes:-) It is not even dress for success, it is dress to fame, better or worse.
Faust I think that people who see fashion as innovative design, or even arts, usually choose "alternative" designers, like Ann D, Raf S., Comme, Yohji and many others. It's for people who are not interested in glamour or status aspect of fashion.
Versace could be a "bad" example, because they do celebrities' clothes:-) It is not even dress for success, it is dress to fame, better or worse.
softgrey
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just say it in your own words cluelessclueless said:
...what's popular over there?
what do people do for fun...what kind of brands do they wear...do people dress up often ...and for what ?...do most people go to museums?...are there art shows?...what kind of music is popular?...etc...
what is important to people...
i'd love some australian perspective in here...
Hmmm..I shall have a little think, and then hit you all with an interesting and intellegent response! I actually am spending the day in the country today, so I have to go and get ready(I'm sitting in my pyjamas
) but I just had to come look at the fashion spot today!B)
) but I just had to come look at the fashion spot today!B)Well, in Australia I think style is more important than fashion for most people- we do have fairly conservative tastes, and I do think that probably most Americans, and some Europeans would find some of what we wear bland. I think I can sort of pinpoint the reason- we are a small country- not even 20 million people, and two thirds of out land is useless desert, and 98% of Aussies live on the coastline- always, in places where they are beaches, people dress a lot more casually I think, and do less with their hair than their makeup. You wouldn't believe what the highest rating shows are? It's soooo embarrassing! Home renovation shows! People spend alllll their money on making their homes as beautiful as possible! They like to have really nice, good quality cars, and send their kids to the best schools- trust me, not going to private school here in Australia is a huuuuge mistake!
I read an interesting article that Australians paid off about 60 million more than they spend on their credit cards over Christmas, so we generally don't spend what we can't afford. I think that one of the reason we are as "fashionable" yes, fashionable, not to be confused with stylish, is becase we are so far away and isolated- plus because our seasons are the opposite to the northern hemisphere, we don't get the summer collections until December, January February when it's summer for us!
And because we are a long way away, things are more expensive, plus we have the GST, so here is a tiny example of some of our prices-
Manolo’s easily $1500 and up
MAC lipglosses $32 as opposed to $14
Jucy Coture track pants just under $300
Stila foundations just under $100
I read an interesting article that Australians paid off about 60 million more than they spend on their credit cards over Christmas, so we generally don't spend what we can't afford. I think that one of the reason we are as "fashionable" yes, fashionable, not to be confused with stylish, is becase we are so far away and isolated- plus because our seasons are the opposite to the northern hemisphere, we don't get the summer collections until December, January February when it's summer for us!
And because we are a long way away, things are more expensive, plus we have the GST, so here is a tiny example of some of our prices-
Manolo’s easily $1500 and up
MAC lipglosses $32 as opposed to $14
Jucy Coture track pants just under $300
Stila foundations just under $100
And I think people seem to think for themselves pretty well, and that's what important in fashion-as long as you're comfortable, you'll look great- things just need to be nice, well fitting, preferably well made, nothing too flashy.
There are of course museums and art galleries, but they aren't huge over here. Things like festivals(sometimes even music festivals) and carnivals and so on are more popular- I really love the Australian culture, there is little difference between classes, life is all about having fun! Which is why we sort of dress fairly casually most of the time, we don't have that same level of celebrity worship, everyone just wants to enjoy themselves, sport is soooooooooooooo popular here, it's unbelieveable. Sporing events are easily the most popular outings! Horse racing is very popular, and people go and get all dressed up, hats and all.I think our current PM, despite what he is criticised for is genuinely a nice, down to earth, caring bloke. I've met and spoken to him many times, and he's so laid back and friendly, and his wife is a sweetheart!
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=John+Howard/v=2/SID=w/TID=I016_80/l=IVI/SIG=12of95o0b/EXP=1107853173/*-http%3A//us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050201/i/r88029090.jpghttp://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=John+Howard/v=2/SID=w/TID=I016_80/l=IVI/SIG=141rs7f0m/EXP=1107853179/*-http%3A//us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050202/capt.xda10102020851.indonesia_australia_tsunami_xda101.jpghttp://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=John+Howard/v=2/SID=w/TID=I016_80/l=IVI/SIG=1450b6vd8/EXP=1107855158/*-http%3A//us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20050202/capt.sge.hai58.020205122739.photo00.photo.default-384x281.jpg
Fun fact: One of our former Prime Ministers was in the Guiness Book of World Records for the most ammount of beer skulled in a particular space of time!
Maybe we like a litte too much fun, but I think we are a nice, down to earth culture anyway.
sorry to sound like an upmyself, or part of the tourist board, but I do love my country!
There are of course museums and art galleries, but they aren't huge over here. Things like festivals(sometimes even music festivals) and carnivals and so on are more popular- I really love the Australian culture, there is little difference between classes, life is all about having fun! Which is why we sort of dress fairly casually most of the time, we don't have that same level of celebrity worship, everyone just wants to enjoy themselves, sport is soooooooooooooo popular here, it's unbelieveable. Sporing events are easily the most popular outings! Horse racing is very popular, and people go and get all dressed up, hats and all.I think our current PM, despite what he is criticised for is genuinely a nice, down to earth, caring bloke. I've met and spoken to him many times, and he's so laid back and friendly, and his wife is a sweetheart!
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=John+Howard/v=2/SID=w/TID=I016_80/l=IVI/SIG=12of95o0b/EXP=1107853173/*-http%3A//us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050201/i/r88029090.jpghttp://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=John+Howard/v=2/SID=w/TID=I016_80/l=IVI/SIG=141rs7f0m/EXP=1107853179/*-http%3A//us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050202/capt.xda10102020851.indonesia_australia_tsunami_xda101.jpghttp://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=John+Howard/v=2/SID=w/TID=I016_80/l=IVI/SIG=1450b6vd8/EXP=1107855158/*-http%3A//us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20050202/capt.sge.hai58.020205122739.photo00.photo.default-384x281.jpg
Fun fact: One of our former Prime Ministers was in the Guiness Book of World Records for the most ammount of beer skulled in a particular space of time!
Maybe we like a litte too much fun, but I think we are a nice, down to earth culture anyway.
sorry to sound like an upmyself, or part of the tourist board, but I do love my country!
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softgrey
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thanks clueless..i learned a lot from that...about how most people live on the coast and spend on their homes...etc....the different seasons is aloso a good point...but i know there is a thriving fashion indusstry down there...lots of models from ny go down there to work...and there are so many local designers...right?...
and there are some pretty good fashion magazines...oyster is very well-respected here...
and there are some pretty good fashion magazines...oyster is very well-respected here...
helena
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clueless thanks for that - it corresponds with how I found australia. I have an uncle there & I visited it about six years ago. I found it very different from europe. Australian girls have a really different way of dressing - the weather & sport influences are so strong. Ideal body size is also quite different from, say, London or Paris - its a much more athletic place on the whole. I guess quite like California....
agree on the homes thing - some amazing architecture over there (I recall a place called Palm Beach - great houses).
agree on the homes thing - some amazing architecture over there (I recall a place called Palm Beach - great houses).
