Designers Switching Houses & Moving to New Brands

[Kennnnn]

I walked past the large Margiela store here in Tokyo today (after a long time), and at the front, it's just shelves and shelves of (not particularly desirable) bags. It was so strange and sad to see what this brand has become, retail-wise.

On Hedi Slimane - I think that Celine is now on auto-pilot, and they don't need him to stick around. Most people who buy the stuff probably don't know or care about Hedi anyway.

 

[tourbillions]

even during martin's time at margiela i think that margiela was a pretty niche brand. For me it was either you love it or hate it. it wasnt a commercial brand although he presented new ways of dressing.

I think Theyskens is best left doing his own couture shows. Can't see him being able to keep up creating such large number of looks for the big houses. It can only do him more bad than good instead of focusing on his couture techniques and his delicate taste for details.

 

[Nimsay]

Living in NY warps reality. But MMM was scorching hot and having those 4 stitches was almost as desirable as having the DH darts… it was hard to get your hands on the leather zip jacket from MM in particular. I gave up trying to get one!

 

[Creative]

No you can’t tell.
Which top exec in the known of such a thing would go about and tell miss tweed? She’s just reporting gossips that go around since ages

Yes, you can. A top exec won't tell Miss Tweed, but someone below him/her that heard things from meetings or from colleagues/friends at those levels would.

I mean, it happened to me as well. I have plenty of stories of people that were above me telling me things that were cooking at big brands, even when I was not in a very important role. I didn't share them in TFS because I was afraid, but if you know Miss Tweed, you can always tell her the things you know.

I know many stories that never happened that were cooking at very big houses, some of them quite crazy and they never saw the light, so it's completely normal that these things and rumors cascade. It's hard to keep a secret these days.

 

[yslforever]

I am super shocked and I think it is super weird because it was a boom, the strategy is more or less the same, the image is consistent... I don't know why all of a sudden they are in this situation of almost -80% vs LY. THATS F****** CRAZY and never ever in my whole life I've seen a big brand drop like that.

Also, Miss Tweed got super accurate info about a brand (info that I know it's 100% true) and people at the brand didn't even know what to do... because they knew it was true. They said it was fake news and rushed to WWD to do an article to kind of deny it in a soft way (not denying it but pretending things were OK). At the end, it was true and what she said happend. So yeah, I am sure she has insider info and that she's right.

Yes, you can. A top exec won't tell Miss Tweed, but someone below him/her that heard things from meetings or from colleagues/friends at those levels would.

I mean, it happened to me as well. I have plenty of stories of people that were above me telling me things that were cooking at big brands, even when I was not in a very important role. I didn't share them in TFS because I was afraid, but if you know Miss Tweed, you can always tell her the things you know.

I know many stories that never happened that were cooking at very big houses, some of them quite crazy and they never saw the light, so it's completely normal that these things and rumors cascade. It's hard to keep a secret these days.

I got news by number-2s, presumably because they are bad-mouthing number-1s to get their jobs... don't overestimate loyalty in corporate circles or in fashion. It doesn't exist, backstabbing takes 50% of their time.
So yes many execs talk "in confidence" knowing very well it will be reported.
That doesn't mean that Ms Tweed report is right.

 

[Creative]

Many of the times it’s true. A global merchandiser doesn’t care who’s gonna be the next creative director but they get the info sometimes. A European CEO doesn’t care either and does not have any power on that, but they get the info as well. They don’t need to backstab anybody because it’s none of their business and they have 0 saying, they just talk cause they love to feel relevant and important. Those decisions are made by the top execs, not even by the CEO of a brand sometimes, but by the top execs of the conglomerate.

So no, people at the HQ in Céline have no power whatsoever to decide or to even “harm” a little bit Hedi. It’s a decision to be made by the close circle of Arnault. If the HQ talk it’s because they love gossip and yeah, 99% of the times what they say is true.

 

[Kimihiro]

LVMH results are out.

No mentions of performance for all brands except Loro Piana, Berluti and Rimowa. Celine still listed third, and Loewe next. Ghesquiere, MGC, KJ, Hedi and JWA all cited. Fendi had to make do with one short sentence. LV performed better than group average, Dior below.

Take of that what you will.

 

[Creative]

They drop is small (-2%) because LV is performing amazing and the share of the brand in LVMH is huge (this shows how tacky the world is). Then you have Loewe, LP and Rimowa doing really good, so that helps with the fall of Dior, Fendi & Céline.

 

[Lola701]

It’s just the first trimester. It indicates something about the dynamic of brand but nothing is definitive anyway.
We got to wait for next year to have a real overview of the market for LVMH.

It’s maybe time for Slimane to engage more : shows, events. The brand cannot exist only with this kind of distant marketing.

The reality is that Vuitton and Dior have created a big gap between them and the rest. So they can afford slow growth. It’s healthier to be honest as it indicates a consolidation of the markets.

The method regarding the revolving doors of designers is different at LVMH. It’s about a long term vision. So, even if MGC is still doing good, it’s a matter of what strategy Delphine wants to use for her tenure.

They are clearly pushing their jewelry/watches operations more.

Now that I think about it, is it me or is Celine a bit weak in footwear. That was a strong category for Hedi at YSL, and it was generally the first foot into the brand for aspirational customers. It doesn’t seem to be the case at Celine.

I still can’t believe that Givenchy will probably be without a CD for a whole year! I expect a heavy marketing once they announce it..

 

[tourbillions]

I still can’t believe that Givenchy will probably be without a CD for a whole year! I expect a heavy marketing once they announce it..

i wonder if they are treating recruiting a CD as an urgent matter or if they already have 1 and just waiting for a non-compete. Must be uncomfortable working there at the moment.

Celine footwear atm is too pedestrian. Speaking of footwear.. I miss Lanvin's classic sneakers. Couldn't quite find a replacement.

 

[GivenchyAddict]

Celine footwear is indeed very weak both for women’s and men’s.

Only the Luco were a real success, no ?

 

[Olaffo]

i wonder if they are treating recruiting a CD as an urgent matter or if they already have 1 and just waiting for a non-compete. Must be uncomfortable working there at the moment.

I don't think they're rushing at all. After CWK left in April 2020 they appointed MW in June same year; they can do it quickly if they want to. I refuse to accept they're doing it for any other reason than waiting for non compete of a certain female british designer...

 

[Lola701]

i wonder if they are treating recruiting a CD as an urgent matter or if they already have 1 and just waiting for a non-compete. Must be uncomfortable working there at the moment.

Celine footwear atm is too pedestrian. Speaking of footwear.. I miss Lanvin's classic sneakers. Couldn't quite find a replacement.

I suspect they don’t want the house to go through another uncertain period while having a CD so they are taking their time to find the strong talent. If Burberry is really firing Lee, they might just hire him. At least he is familiar with LVMH management. Sarah Burton and PPp are the easy guess because they are the only ones under non-compete. Everybody is a free agent now.

Lanvin still produces the classic sneakers. My husband still buys them. However I converted him to Pierre Hardy sneakers. So it can be an alternative for you if you want…
However speaking of Hedi Slimane, I know he misses the sneakers he did at Dior, particularly his version of the GAT.

Celine footwear is indeed very weak both for women’s and men’s.

Only the Luco were a real success, no ?

Saint Laurent footwear was good, I wonder why he just couldn’t simply copy his own design…
His taste in clothes doesn’t change. I can’t believe that now he only believes in pedestrian footwear…

The irony now is that YSL footwear is only good for women. You all men are helpless from Hedi and from Hedi’s former brands (Dior Homme is very unimpressive too).

 

[Nimsay]

i dont think hedi's shoes have ever been that good outside of his yearly hit sneaker...he insisted on making those two tone tap shoes for like 5 seasons at DH. Also we were forced into buying the DH sneakers to go with the 17cm denims. Other choices were converse which Im not wearing...

Just like DH days the left overs hang around because the Celine/DH client is very aware and knows that those are the 2nd choice sneaker....like last year I got the CT01 which sold out instantly. the black and white version there was the blue and white available and it never sold out. I never got the blue and white version because im not trying to wear what you can wear. This is a huge part of Hedi's appeal...since DH. Owning famous sold out items....

Hedis other signature is heeled boots but that isnt his invention and Id associate that with Tom Ford. He's primarily known for making one hit sneaker a year...

Mens shoes have been awful since lug soles have been in. I love thin soles, sleek shoes...its forced me into being a coustomer of brands i dont typically shop like Louboutin and LV...

 

[plentyofhorns]

Celine footwear is indeed very weak both for women’s and men’s.

Only the Luco were a real success, no ?

It doesn’t help that if you’re a man who shopped Hedi’s YSL or Dior Homme you probably already have black jodhpurs and Chelsea’s. As much as I love his basics, they are exactly that……

 

[tourbillions]

Lanvin still produces the classic sneakers. My husband still buys them. However I converted him to Pierre Hardy sneakers. So it can be an alternative for you if you want…

havent seen them after all those gigantic lace sneakers they made. thank for the reccomendation, usually see pierre hardy and they have some really nice designs but never tried. guess its better than getting hermes.

 

[Lola701]

havent seen them after all those gigantic lace sneakers they made. thank for the reccomendation, usually see pierre hardy and they have some really nice designs but never tried. guess its better than getting hermes.

I think Pierre Hardy makes some very beautiful boots and sandals for men for Hermes. However, his sneakers are better at his own brand.
I offered 1 pair of sneakers to my husband years ago and he has been a customer ever since.

For women, however I’ve been a customer since the Balenciaga days. I may have some sandals and a pair of riding boots from Hermes but I find his own collection more fun, relaxed and aimed at an everyday use.
His Eton & Biba loafers are my everyday shoes and I wear the sneakers either if they are for men or women.

Hermes is maybe too classic for me and I have my brands I trust and usually go to for shoes anyway.
Everytime I see a man with Hermes sneakers, I usually think it’s for status. It’s weird. Hermes sneakers are what Loro Piana loafers are for some lol.

 

[Nimsay]

Hermes shoes are pretty bad now because they put the lock on everything. theyre also kinda inexpensive considering Prada charges more for full leather sneakers... which lets you know how delusional Prada is.

 

[tourbillions]

hermes rtw were never that expensive unless its a full leather piece, unfortunately they are always looked over by those playing the game

 

[LadyJunon]

I agree with @Lola701, the (quite minor) drop in sales at Vuitton and Dior is probably absolutely normal. Both brands are so big enough to the point that their expectations are vastly different to the rest of the group. As I say that, I do see the possibility of Delphine making the move to replace MGC and KJ.

I think that Celine's current strategy will probably get the brand to 4 to 5bn, but there are blind spots in terms of visibility. A return to Paris Fashion Week might be difficult, considering Hedi's disdain for fashion press, but I do see him continuing to show off-schedule. Imagine Hedi showing his collections live in places like Camargue, Loire Valley and Hyeres.

LVMH will probably keep Givenchy as a bare-bones operation until the designer they want have become a free agent.