Designers Switching Houses & Moving to New Brands

[Salvatore]

The fashion industry seems illogical, full stop. Hasn't this been going on a long time?

It has been illogical for some time, but not at the current levels we see presently !

 

[Lola701]

Not sure I believe that rumor about Nicolas being tapped for Chanel. He’s too edgy and experimental for the Chanel clientele, which I feel is still quite conservative. Which also explains why Virginie’s frumpy, sexless clothes are apparently selling so well…

Karl was too edgy for Chanel in 1982…
Nicolas has proved at Balenciaga and also during his early days at Vuitton that he can design commercial, wearable clothes. In the stores, the commercial version of his runway collections and the system build around the RTW of his work at Vuitton has proven to be success.

‘He is skilled and also at Vuitton he also proves that he can disappear behind the brand (his prerogative are more limited than at Balenciaga for example).

That’s a job he can do.

Couture would be very interesting with him.

 

[LadyJunon]

Not sure I believe that rumor about Nicolas being tapped for Chanel. He’s too edgy and experimental for the Chanel clientele, which I feel is still quite conservative. Which also explains why Virginie’s frumpy, sexless clothes are apparently selling so well…

I think that the infrastructure that Chanel has could allow for that with minimal risk. To our knowledge, Chanel releases eight collections a year (from most to least accessible
• two interseasonal capsule collections (Pre-Spring, Pre-Fall)
• three runway collections (Spring, Fall, Cruise)
• the annual "Métier d'Art" collection
• two Haute Couture collections (Spring, Fall)

The interseasonal capsules are most likely the "bottom line" of the ready-to-wear division. They're quite straightforward in their offering (mostly Chanel classics in seasonal colour ways), so I doubt they'll change much, if at all.

The runway and "Métier d'Art" collections will probably have the most radical change, considering that they most likely act as the "industry face" of the creative director's tenure. That said, I doubt that Ghesquière would do anything along the lines of SS'23 at Chanel.

The Haute Couture collections will most likely go through a similar, but less extreme change due to the customer Chanel serves. In the end, I imagine that most of their orders will be remade from scratch, allowing hems to be lowered, necklines and backs to be raised, embroidery to be removed and colours to be muted.

 

[Tchi]

Chanel is selling out at a spectacular rate i

Karl was too edgy for Chanel in 1982…
Nicolas has proved at Balenciaga and also during his early days at Vuitton that he can design commercial, wearable clothes. In the stores, the commercial version of his runway collections and the system build around the RTW of his work at Vuitton has proven to be success.

‘He is skilled and also at Vuitton he also proves that he can disappear behind the brand (his prerogative are more limited than at Balenciaga for example).

That’s a job he can do.

Couture would be very interesting with him.

the difference is that in 1982 Karl was leading, in a very opulent era, today Gesquiere stands alone as a virtuoso in a bubble in an era of influencers (something that Karl foresaw back in his days). Virginie brings on the legacy and the company trust in her. Sales are stellar and apparently the production is struggling to restock the boutiques, good for them!

 

[Lola701]

Chanel is selling out at a spectacular rate i

the difference is that in 1982 Karl was leading, in a very opulent era, today Gesquiere stands alone as a virtuoso in a bubble in an era of influencers (something that Karl foresaw back in his days). Virginie brings on the legacy and the company trust in her. Sales are stellar and apparently the production is struggling to restock the boutiques, good for them!

But it’s always about thinking about long term.
Virginie sells to clients what they want but Karl provoked the desire. On a short term, providing what the market want is great but is it what we want the industry to be in the future? You needs somebody who is willing to lead.

What Karl did in the 90’s was selling well and obviously he made a needed shift in the late 90’s that spoke to less people but made it possible for him to bounce back in the early 00’s.

I think Nicolas has that leading thing in him. At Vuitton he did the job.
Marc Jacobs was great but his work made people buy the classic monogram bags. Now the house is not dependent on the speedy, lockit and others. They are even trying to move away from the Neverfull.

Plus seeing how Chanel and Vuitton womenswear are trying to court the menswear customer, I feel like he will be good at it.

‘I love JW Anderson but I don’t know if I want to see him do Couture.

Sales are great but for me it’s always about what’s next.

 

[Tchi]

But it’s always about thinking about long term.
Virginie sells to clients what they want but Karl provoked the desire. On a short term, providing what the market want is great but is it what we want the industry to be in the future? You needs somebody who is willing to lead.

What Karl did in the 90’s was selling well and obviously he made a needed shift in the late 90’s that spoke to less people but made it possible for him to bounce back in the early 00’s.

I think Nicolas has that leading thing in him. At Vuitton he did the job.
Marc Jacobs was great but his work made people buy the classic monogram bags. Now the house is not dependent on the speedy, lockit and others. They are even trying to move away from the Neverfull.

Sales are great but for me it’s always about what’s next.

I might have a much more cynical point of view, but in fashion the dream factor today has been replaced by instant gratification.
I really don’t see how in the past 10 years of his tenure at Chanel Karl was “provoking the desire”, he was smart and was following trends. Chanel is a strong enough machine to stand alone, also as mentioned by Junon the amount of collection outpouring is so big that any designer would probable be unable to follow up. And disrupt the chanel machine in a time of great sales, why should you do that?

 

[style_expert]

. And disrupt the chanel machine in a time of great sales, why should you do that?

To generate even more money. Ghesquiere could generate more buzz, more attention, more prestige for the brand and therefore more money. Chanel is under auto-pilot mode with Virginie and they also know that the current commercial success may not automatically last forever.

 

[donyan]

Is Fashion still about unique vision or new ideas or a specific silhouette? It seems to me that everything is about product, giving the market what it wants, and in that respect Chanel is perfect. Why would they change anything if they’re selling as well as everyone says?

 

[Tchi]

To generate even more money. Ghesquiere could generate more buzz, more attention, more prestige for the brand and therefore more money. Chanel is under auto-pilot mode with Virginie and they also know that the current commercial success may not automatically last forever.

Buzz and attention is proving unprofitable.
Look at the tenures of the latest buzz provoking DA.
Thank Goddes I would add.

 

[Kennnnn]

I'm indifferent to Virginie Viard's Chanel, except that I think the first real new bag launched during her tenure - the 22 bag - is a shockingly lazy, uninspiring piece of work.

 

[yslforever]

. And disrupt the chanel machine in a time of great sales, why should you do that?

With 8 collections (and more or less the same number of ad campaigns) a year, once every one and a half month, Viard's aesthetics would be progressively phased out and the customers would become "educated" to Ghesquière's new offering, just like what is happening right now at Gucci.
Chanel thinks long term and they need new bags to develop for the next decades.

 

[Lola701]

I might have a much more cynical point of view, but in fashion the dream factor today has been replaced by instant gratification.
I really don’t see how in the past 10 years of his tenure at Chanel Karl was “provoking the desire”, he was smart and was following trends. Chanel is a strong enough machine to stand alone, also as mentioned by Junon the amount of collection outpouring is so big that any designer would probable be unable to follow up. And disrupt the chanel machine in a time of great sales, why should you do that?

He was probably smart at creating a formula that worked in order to provoke desire, put it how you want.
I don’t know if it’s a matter of following a trend or being right on time before it becomes global but it was always somehow on the nose for people to buy it.

The thing is to make something directional, with a vision. There’s no vision in Virginie’s work. It’s like releasing endless flankers of a successful fragrance instead of thinking about the next fragrance that will challenge the industry.

Karl created a formula that worked for him in the last 10 years of his career and everybody followed. Each season, placing the elements of his Chanel vocabulary in different context. With that context came the It accessories (whether it was the clogs in 2010, the sneakers in 2014, the classic slingback in 2015), the novelty bags but also a real fashion proposition beyond the spectacle.

I refuse to think that being interested or even buying fashion only means caring about a t »shirt with a logo on it and be happy because it sold out a 1250€.

When I bought Chanel, I aspired to the cocktail dress or the fabulous embroidered pieces, not the 4000€ tshirt.

For me Virginie is like Kim Jones.
Of course Dior is selling. But logos and collabs do. No vision, no real aesthetic. Nothing long lasting.

 

[Frederic01]

CHANEL just made 17.22 billion, profits up by 17%. Virginie is not going anywhere. Whatever she is doing is clearly resonating with the customer base. She is untouchable from a business point of view with those kinds of figures.

Obviously there is value in mediocrity and "boring design". Clearly that is what people want to buy...

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Chanel just announced a 17 percent growth in revenue over last year.

In a statement, Leena Nair, Chanel’s global chief executive officer, said the strong financials “reflect the strength of our brand, our client relationships, and the freedom of creation that defines everything we do.”

From wwd. No mention of Virginie in the entire article.

Im not so sure that Chanel sees her as being integral to their success.

I also thought it was strange that she was absent from the Met Gala's red carpet or from press surrounding the show given that Chanel paid for it and that she helped create many of the pieces on display.

I'm can't stand her clothes so I am trying to be objective and clear headed and I'm not entirely sure her position is so secure despite great business.

It almost seems like Chanel is trying to downplay her role.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Chanel could be designed by AI and people would still buy. It's like beyond style and design. Purely status

 

[Tchi]

With 8 collections (and more or less the same number of ad campaigns) a year, once every one and a half month, Viard's aesthetics would be progressively phased out and the customers would become "educated" to Ghesquière's new offering, just like what is happening right now at Gucci.
Chanel thinks long term and they need new bags to develop for the next decades.

Which demanding designer with a vision could produce a show every 2 months? It’s simply insane

 

[Lola701]

Chanel just announced a 17 percent growth in revenue over last year.



From wwd. No mention of Virginie in the entire article.

Im not so sure that Chanel sees her as being integral to their success.

I also thought it was strange that she was absent from the Met Gala's red carpet or from press surrounding the show given that Chanel paid for it and that she helped create many of the pieces on display.

I'm can't stand her clothes so I am trying to be objective and clear headed and I'm not entirely sure her position is so secure despite great business.

It almost seems like Chanel is trying to downplay her role.

But they don’t mention Olivier Polge and the creative director for the Jewelry either. The idea is to say that Chanel is great as an entity. It’s also a way for Leena Nair to have her moment even if I doubt that she made drastic/life changing changes at the company.

For me Chanel has lost it position as the driving business force in the industry. Karl maintained the illusion but they have been very safe/conservative in their others categories.

‘But Virginie is a very private person actually. People love her personally, but I’m not sure she was prepared or she enjoys the attention that comes with the position she has.

‘She has never made an interview. She spoke more when she was Karl’s number 2 than now that she is the CD.
She was on the redcarpet with Charlotte and Kristen but I don’t think she poses.

Chanel as a company has never communicated that much than since Virginie took over. Bruno Pavlovski is talking all the time and they are releasing numbers annually it seems when prior to Karl’s death they didn’t for how many years.

I don’t think she is on an ejector seat because I don’t think Chanel thinks long term right now.

We will see next year if changing the faces of Coco Mademoiselle and Bleu was a fruitful choice for the brand.

What surprises me (even tho not really) was the lack of news regarding investment in factories to respond to the challenges of the market regarding accessories. So they will continue to use subcontractors and not have a decent quality control to prevent from the general bad perception the mass has of their accessories…

 

[LadyJunon]

Which demanding designer with a vision could produce a show every 2 months? It’s simply insane

They only do six shows (still a lot, but reasonable for Chanel), the other two collections are small DTC capsule collections.

I believe that the ready-to-wear collections at Chanel are done with the aid of a design team. The Haute Couture collections are more "intimate" in their making, with just the creative director and the ateliers.

 

[tourbillions]

i think chanel's sales will grow even if their collections are made by their in-house team. And it would be a crime if their sales didn't grow after a pandemic.

I don't think there's any future direction with their current designer. She's not selling any dream unlike mary grace at Dior. Don't see her having any identity at all as a designer or maybe i just didn't bother to look at her collections close enough. Even Celine has a much stronger direction..

 

[yslforever]

CHANEL just made 17.22 billion, profits up by 17%. Virginie is not going anywhere. Whatever she is doing is clearly resonating with the customer base. She is untouchable from a business point of view with those kinds of figures.

Obviously there is value in mediocrity and "boring design". Clearly that is what people want to buy...

Thanks for the WWD article in the Viard thread, I just want to point out that Chanel growth in 2022 is slower than their own in 2021, and slower than LVMH and Hermès in 2022. It's a solid performance for sure but maybe not the best.