Dior Homme F/W 07.08 Paris

[LP640]

I love the second jacket!!!

and.....

I think we can all agree that the choice of models has to reflect the aesthetics of the house. Dior Homme is about 'skinny, white boys' and they suit the clothes perfectly. Of course, this doesn't mean that a non-skinny boy, a black boy or even a manly man can't wear it, which is proven by Dior's costumers and celebrities.

What's particularly difficult about commenting on the black guy in this show is the fact that it enters the race area, which is always subject to misunderstandings. I don't think Slimane should have casted a black model simply because I don't think it suits Dior's aesthetics. I would, however, always expect to see black men in Armani's shows, for example, because it suits his aesthetics.

Whether or not Dior's black boy in question is handsome or not is a matter of taste. Generally, I expect to see more 'pretty boy' types in Dior's shows, which I don't believe this guy lives up to, black or white. Anyway, it's a brave move on Slimane's part consumer-wise, and who knows, Dior might increase their sales this way.

As a "typical Dior Homme boy" myself, I don't understand why you don't someone of another color fits Dior's asthetics? Sounds ********, and I hope Dior starts casting more models other than white!! Cool!

 

[Crakk]

I love the second jacket!!!

and.....








As a "typical Dior Homme boy" myself, I don't understand why you don't someone of another color fits Dior's asthetics? Sounds ********, and I hope Dior starts casting more models other than white!! Cool!

I doubt it. I mean im happy he had one guy i could relate to, but WOW, ONE? I mean why not 3 or 4? Vary the selection a bit. His shows are full of white men, and because he had 1 BLACK MAN FINALLY, people are excited? I hope not. Dont get me wrong tho, i am extremely happy about this, more houses need to open their eyes to the AFRICAN man!

Anyhoo, i love the collection as usual. I dont care if pieces are predictable, because they will sell out the store like crazy, so whatever. I wish he would create some more man purses, or duffels!

 

[djork]

i was skeptical to say the least when i clicked, but i'm liking a lot this. i was braced for the worst, at least it's a pleasant surprise.

 

[Karl.Popper]

to assume a certain ethnicity looks good only in certain colors is utter BS, and a very backwards way of thinking..

How so? Calling something BS doesn't make it so. Do you deny that makeup artists think there is a relation between skin tone and colour? Of course there is a difference. If there's no difference ANY colour combination will do, the idea of matching and clashing colours would be nonsensical.

The same idea applies to skin colour and clothing.

To take just one example - imagine a Caucasian woman in a kimono. For whatever reason, it just doesn't work. Something feels wrong (perhaps because a Kimono works better with 'softer' Asian features). Or to take the converse - many Asians don't look as good in voluminous or detail-rich coats as Caucasians (probably because Asiatic 'soft' features are overwhelmed by what is worn, whereas sharper, more defined Caucasian features are better accentuated).

These are just some of the ways in which clothes may look better on some races than others. It's not a racist thing, it's just a candid acknowledgement of differences.

Hedi is actually from north AFRICA. Sure his ideal reference is the
young white skinny rocker, but music has evolved and so has fashion.
... Just like music fashion is evolving, and black people can fit the genre, get over it.

No one said otherwise. You're being a little too defensive, and missing the point.

 

[belletrist]

Fashionken: You misunderstood me I wasn't saying that because of your comments, which I understand, but because of someone else (can't remember the name and won't point out what he said). Sorry if I offended you but really, I understand you point of view and I'm not saying you're racist of something

Karl Popper: I understand your point of view too. I'm not saying you cannot discuss. I, personally and honestly, don't like black models, period, because I like, in a pure aesthetic way, snow-white skins - the same way I don't like, let's say, too muscular guys on a catwalk - , but I honestly try not to say this because of the reactions it may cause... I strongly agree avec your point of view concerning the colors too, albeit I find it a little bit too strict. What I found wrong is the way this person (named above, can't remember who) said that it was ridiculous of something to put a black model on a catwalk because it has nothing to do with Dior.

Concerning Hedi, the fact he lived there doesn't proove anything: my grand parents used to live in south africa and I can say that most of the white people who came back from africa (plus from what I know he's from Tunisia, where I have never see any black persons) aren't really friendly with black people...

Just my thoughts...

 

[Karl.Popper]

belletrist I probably know what you're trying to say (in a non-racist, aesthetic way) but you might want to edit your post because as it stands it is VERY easily misunderstood. Cheers

edit: lol ok.

 

[Karl.Popper]

Another thing that just occurred to me was that Michael from Project Runway likes wearing pastel colours (the creation he wore down the runway for one challenge was in white). Even he knows this intuitively!

 

[BerlinRocks]

we all know Fashion (and model agencies) has a sort of problem with minorities... and I think it's more complicated than this...
so move on, non? and let's about the collection...
by the way the black is Markus, from Denmark...

 

[Miss Galliano]

belletrist .. I a m a blackguy and go to tunisie every year for holida Monastir so .. they are some black folks there 2 .. heyhey you sound to racist to me .. you must edit your post 'cause ... fashion change . hedi need to change his catwalk and idea of manhood he is just too skinny .... but listen darkness is everywhere too bad...

 

[Miss Galliano]

What I found wrong is the way this person (named above, can't remember who) said that it was ridiculous of something to put a black model on a catwalk because it has nothing to do with Dior.
it is ridicoulous to say that tooo...look the haute couture show

 

[LP640]

How so? Calling something BS doesn't make it so. Do you deny that makeup artists think there is a relation between skin tone and colour? Of course there is a difference. If there's no difference ANY colour combination will do, the idea of matching and clashing colours would be nonsensical.

The same idea applies to skin colour and clothing.

To take just one example - imagine a Caucasian woman in a kimono. For whatever reason, it just doesn't work. Something feels wrong (perhaps because a Kimono works better with 'softer' Asian features). Or to take the converse - many Asians don't look as good in voluminous or detail-rich coats as Caucasians (probably because Asiatic 'soft' features are overwhelmed by what is worn, whereas sharper, more defined Caucasian features are better accentuated).

These are just some of the ways in which clothes may look better on some races than others. It's not a racist thing, it's just a candid acknowledgement of differences.



No one said otherwise. You're being a little too defensive, and missing the point.

I think you mean "cothes may look better on some colors than others"

You do realize that some people of different races could have a light complextion? I have a black and latino friend who have quite pale complexions as well. I'm sure if they were on the Dior Homme catwalk, as pale as they are, we would still be having this conversation of how Dior doesn't look right on latins and blacks. Am I not right?

 

[mccanner]

black is the new white anyways!

 

[arv2005]

I think you mean "cothes may look better on some colors than others"

You do realize that some people of different races could have a light complextion? I have a black and latino friend who have quite pale complexions as well. I'm sure if they were on the Dior Homme catwalk, as pale as they are, we would still be having this conversation of how Dior doesn't look right on latins and blacks. Am I not right?

I agree with you. After reading these posts, I am appreciating John Galliano,Raf Simons,Armani (However much I may like or may not like thier designs )...Raf ,in particluar is more global in his runway shows..no pro models,using models of all social levels...I appreciate them for atleast not making thier fashion restricted to a particular aesthetic based on a certain type of personality,and making it more universal.. Its unfortunate that some aesthetics are based on narrow definitions of colors ,race etc...

 

[couture_not_war]

Fashionken, I think you need to read what you wrote again because your obviously not seeing something. Just because you follow up your statement of, and I QUOTE "I don't think Slimane should have casted a black model simply because I don't think it suits Dior's aesthetics.'' and stating that you think the dior homme aesthetic suits "skinny white boys" with "'Of course, this doesn't mean that a non-skinny boy, a black boy or even a manly man can't wear it, which is proven by Dior's costumers and celebrities.', doesnt mean anything. The problem I had and OTHER MEMBERS of this forum is that by saying black models dont suit the aesthetic, you have grouped them as one instead of as individuals. Not every black person looks the same and unless you have seen every black person on this earth and to be born, who are you to say they dont have the look or fit in with dior homme's aesthetic. To just make things simple for you...your not hedi(im sure he knows what he wants and who has the vibe,look or whatever he wants in a dior hommer considering HE CREATED/DECIDED WHAT THE DIOR HOMME AESTHETIC IS! oh and once again THANK GOD your not a designer(hopefully)

 

[couture_not_war]

Fashionken: You misunderstood me I wasn't saying that because of your comments, which I understand, but because of someone else (can't remember the name and won't point out what he said). Sorry if I offended you but really, I understand you point of view and I'm not saying you're racist of something

Karl Popper: I understand your point of view too. I'm not saying you cannot discuss. I, personally and honestly, don't like black models, period, because I like, in a pure aesthetic way, snow-white skins - the same way I don't like, let's say, too muscular guys on a catwalk - , but I honestly try not to say this because of the reactions it may cause... I strongly agree avec your point of view concerning the colors too, albeit I find it a little bit too strict. What I found wrong is the way this person (named above, can't remember who) said that it was ridiculous of something to put a black model on a catwalk because it has nothing to do with Dior.

Concerning Hedi, the fact he lived there doesn't proove anything: my grand parents used to live in south africa and I can say that most of the white people who came back from africa (plus from what I know he's from Tunisia, where I have never see any black persons) aren't really friendly with black people...

Just my thoughts...

and you need to really fix this post because its offensive even to people of caucasian descent. You havent seen every black model in the world either. also i dont think you or fashionken or even Karl.popper( understand the skin tone thing but saying that certain clothes look good on certain races and not on others is silly just because once again you would have to have seen every single person and they must ethnically all look the same which obviously know one does and the caucasian women not looking good in kimono's is silly because once agin your grouping and generalizing. Tom Ford Gucci Spring/Summer '03 might change your mind, your also forgetting mixed races but im not getting into how that pertains to this)are racist and i never once stated that i thought that. I think people on here arent catching ignorancy, which come out alot when talking about racial subjects, in what their saying. Im not perfect either but at least im open to understanding where and in which contexts i am ignorant and bettering my understandings on the subject(s). back to the clothes

 

[Spacemiu]

some of it is good, but some of it is so dull...

 

[Karl.Popper]

I think you mean "cothes may look better on some colors than others"

You do realize that some people of different races could have a light complextion? I have a black and latino friend who have quite pale complexions as well. I'm sure if they were on the Dior Homme catwalk, as pale as they are, we would still be having this conversation of how Dior doesn't look right on latins and blacks. Am I not right?

No. I mean that and more. Clothes may indeed look better on some colours than others (and we're speaking _generally_, so race here is a proxy for colour), but I used the example of colour to illustrate that the same thing may be said of facial features - sharper vs more muted features, and so on.

So it's not just a question of colour. That particular example was used to illustrate a broader point.

If casting is able to find someone of an obviously different race who by dint of pallor still fits the so-called Dior Homme aesthetic, it would be most welcome - it shows that he's making an effort, and not just engaged in tokenism.

 

[Karl.Popper]

. . . saying that certain clothes look good on certain races and not on others is silly just because once again you would have to have seen every single person and they must ethnically all look the same which obviously know one does and the caucasian women not looking good in kimono's is silly because once agin your grouping and generalizing.

We're speaking generally, of course we're generalizing. Implicit in generalization is that there are always exceptions to the rule. No one denies this! Hence my use of "many" and "most" when I speak in general terms.

I'm sure most makeup artists have a general idea of what pallette to use on black or Asian or white skintones, I just think it's worth pointing out that while this awareness of differences in the makeup industry is a conscious one - and regarded in an uncontroversial matter-of-fact way, the underlying assumptions when it comes to clothes are far less obvious, with many still wanting to ellide the differences.

That's just an ***-backwards way of opposing a Caucasian-centric fashion industry imo.

 

[Skirt]

I really like this!

 

[Karl.Popper]

I meant palette and elide of course. Attack of the double Ls.