Fair Trade Clothing Brands & Human Rights ... the Ethical Consumer Movement

[fashionista-ta]

Sometimes, and actually often times, the higher priced shoes are actually NOT made as well, where the name brand overrides the safety of the wearer. Hey, how about some $200 Doc Martens vs. some shoes that cost $80 less that one bought at Fred Meyer that are certified to be good on the feet. Hey, how about carhartt vs. diesel? There are so many examples of this it's not even funny. The whole price=quality is not even a "usually" thing, it's a "sometimes" thing. Yes, you're right about something from payless shoes vs quite literally anywhere else. Just about everyone knows that payless shoes are the cheapest pieces-o-crap out there.

The one thing I -have- found is that, over the past 8 years (it wasn't always this way), usually designer brands are made CHEAPER than the "mid-grade" brands. It's all about name brands. It's all about making a lot of money--it's the "American" way.

I know women's shoes pretty well, and while I've never owned a pair of shoes from Payless (I've merely observed the quality of their products as worn by others), I've owned shoes in virtually every other price range, and my experience bears out what I've said.

 

[scandababian]

I wanted this to be an edit, but the time limit ran out--so:

I needed to add that I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just trying to state my viewpoints, and sometimes that can be offensive to people who have opposite viewpoints. I know that you're not trying to be offensive either, but it doesn't mean that I'm not offended by your viewpoints, so, we're in a debate.

I think it's a tragedy that women's clothing costs as much as it does. It's truly truly a horrible thing, it's unethical for these companies to be charging as much as they do for such small pieces of material. I truly feel sorry for women in this way. I also feel sorry for the men who are married to non-career women that have expensive tastes.

Dude, you have a very strange way of trying to not be offensive. I think that the reason some are having a hard time with some of the things you say, is rooted in your statements about how you are proud about judging other people for doing things you do not choose to do yourself. Healthy debate is great, but I feel like debating with you is losing sight of the idea of this thread and therefore this is the last time I am going to address your stereotypes and biased opinions.

Whether or not Fashionista has ever ethically consumed before is irrelevant, as at least she was on this thread in the first place. Try posting some actual facts, websites or the like if you want to make a difference, because up to this point you just seem to be offending the artists and fashion lovers who are trying to improve this industry. Not everyone who loves fashion design is also consumed with the way others perceive them, however, you seem to be consumed with this issue (the issue of "wanting to look rich).

 

[astatine]

I might be wading into the line of fire here...but I think we all need to calm down a little and stop calling each other arrogant or unethical or any other names...there should be a way to exchange opinions peacefully and without quarrel.

fashionista-ta, perhaps you read Kizzume's arguments wrongly? From what I understand from his debate, he did not state that the cheapest brand is necessarily the way to go. He seems to be saying that research is the way to go, and while price is a big factor in his decision, his point seems to be directed more towards the markup percentages of products rather than actual prices.

Kizzume, I've been re-reading your posts, and while I think it's admirable that you're defending your stand to the death, perhaps it would be easier to show us some facts or figures, even some form of an article that we could read so that your statements about the lower cost prices of designer brands with regards to mid-range brands etc. are justified, because it is hard to believe what you are saying without solid numbers and facts. I hope you do not take this in offence and get defensive, but people do need proof in order to believe you.

Aesthetic value seems to be coming up a lot as a point in this debate. Personally I'm with fash ho' on this one, because I'm more for sustainability than anything else. But since this is the Fashion Spot, you would undoubtedly find more of us here who would be willing to pay a premium for this 'aesthetic value'. Some of us don't mind paying more to show our appreciation of this. Some of us would not. Let's not attack each other over it.

ps: scandababian, good quote

 

[Kizzume]

Thank you, astatine, for your ability to bring things together. Great post.

Fashionista-ta: I am sorry I was so judgmental. I didn't realize just how much I've had an anger towards those that make enough money to do a lot of those things because I've never made much money in my life--I've always been financially poor, and you have given me a wake-up call as to my biases. Thank you. My basis for the mugging comment is that every person I've known who has been mugged was wearing an expensive outfit, and I've known about 8 people personally who have been mugged. I've never known anyone who was mugged, even as just as an accquaintance, who was wearing something ratty. This may not be the statistical reason for people getting mugged, but it is an observation I have made via people I know who have been mugged.

As far as the price not equaling quality thing--I tried to bring up examples like carhartt vs. diesel. So much of high-end fashion, for men, which is the only thing I have the right to speak about, ends up being thinner material, and materials that don't seem to be able to take abuse, because the main focus is how they look, not how they last--again, I can only speak for men's clothing. Doc Martens are quite frankly bad for the feet until they've been worn for almost a year, and by that time, because over the years the quality of Doc Martens has become cheaper (they were GREAT in the early 90's), they start to have problems--particularly in the glue they use. This is out of personal experience and the experience of my friends. Army boots are made SO much better than Doc Martens. I can try to give some more examples of this, and I know of many brand comparisons that this has been true in, but I don't know if that is the information you are looking for or whether you want articles talking about it and statistics.

I still stand by what I said about believing it is a tragedy that women's clothing costs so much. Men's clothing is usually more durable, is usually thicker, and yet, for some reason, often costs a fraction of the price of women's clothing.

I also still stand by what I said about art. Nobody is that important--Barbara Streisand charging $2000 for her concerts is outrageous, and I feel the same way about a clothing designer charging $10,000 for a skimpy dress. Yes, it looks cool, but why is it worth that much?

 

[Kizzume]

So things don't get too far out of the thread subject, please go to http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/f55/message-board-great-45205.html#post1939315 for an explaination of something I regret terribly, and a major major thank you to everyone putting up with my crap.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Thank you, astatine, for your ability to bring things together. Great post.

Fashionista-ta: I am sorry I was so judgmental. I didn't realize just how much I've had an anger towards those that make enough money to do a lot of those things because I've never made much money in my life--I've always been financially poor, and you have given me a wake-up call as to my biases. Thank you. My basis for the mugging comment is that every person I've known who has been mugged was wearing an expensive outfit, and I've known about 8 people personally who have been mugged. I've never known anyone who was mugged, even as just as an accquaintance, who was wearing something ratty. This may not be the statistical reason for people getting mugged, but it is an observation I have made via people I know who have been mugged.

As far as the price not equaling quality thing--I tried to bring up examples like carhartt vs. diesel. So much of high-end fashion, for men, which is the only thing I have the right to speak about, ends up being thinner material, and materials that don't seem to be able to take abuse, because the main focus is how they look, not how they last--again, I can only speak for men's clothing. Doc Martens are quite frankly bad for the feet until they've been worn for almost a year, and by that time, because over the years the quality of Doc Martens has become cheaper (they were GREAT in the early 90's), they start to have problems--particularly in the glue they use. This is out of personal experience and the experience of my friends. Army boots are made SO much better than Doc Martens. I can try to give some more examples of this, and I know of many brand comparisons that this has been true in, but I don't know if that is the information you are looking for or whether you want articles talking about it and statistics.

I still stand by what I said about believing it is a tragedy that women's clothing costs so much. Men's clothing is usually more durable, is usually thicker, and yet, for some reason, often costs a fraction of the price of women's clothing.

I also still stand by what I said about art. Nobody is that important--Barbara Streisand charging $2000 for her concerts is outrageous, and I feel the same way about a clothing designer charging $10,000 for a skimpy dress. Yes, it looks cool, but why is it worth that much?

astatine, thanks for your peacemaking efforts

Kizzume, thanks for the apology. I remember before I ever had expensive wine or food, I couldn't understand how it could possibly be worth the money to anyone--surely they were just being pretentious and indulging in pointless luxury. Then I had some really great wine and haute cuisine and I understood. My lack of imagination and experience had been inhibiting my understanding. Hey, it happens

The same is true of art. Certainly not all art speaks to everyone. I'm lucky to live in a city with a world-class art museum, and a number of other good museums nearby, so I get to go to a lot of art shows. As it happens, Georgia O'Keeffe really speaks to me. I'll probably never own anything more than the prints I have now, but when you see art that speaks to you, you certainly understand why people who have the money would spend it on art.

So I think mindfulness is key to being an ethical consumer--thinking about how and why and where you're spending your money (or not), and then afterwards considering whether it was worth it (and not every expensive purchase I've made has been).

And while I make a choice to buy fewer, high-quality things, give up other things in order to buy fresh organic food, etc., it's definitely a privilege to be able to make those choices, and I know it.

 

[Melisande]

Voluntary Simplicity (or simple living)

Yes, it's a very Buddhist concept; from my experience, nothing is more sensual, luxurious and empowering than ridding yourself of all extraneous objects and stretching out on a tatami-mat floor in an empty room, or taking the time to make fresh organic green tea in an heirloom vessel made by a seasoned potter...the only one you own...

I think much of the sensual and aesthetic fulfillent we seek from buying luxury goods can actually be achieved by simply heightening our senses and becoming aware of all the gorgeousness that surrounds us already; in nature, in our loved ones, in the food we eat, the supple movement of our own healthy bodies, the freshly washed clothes we already have.

Seeking fulfillment through consumerism is like drinking seawater when you're thirsty; it leaves you wanting more.

I'm not saying we shouldn't spend money on beauty; I'm all for supporting artists as well as the artist within oneself. But it's just something to think about before rushing to acquire more. It's something I aspire to...

By the way, I just want to say I love this thread and I'm very moved by everyone's insight...most of all by Kizzume's passion, noble humility, and openness of mind.

 

[scandababian]

This line "Worn Again" is affiliated with Terra Plana, who also uses some recycled materials in their designs. Some are a bit, er...loud, but I do like the button trainers that only have 2-3 colors going on. Spatt-like.

The "Worn Again" trainers are made from 100% recycled materials, including leather from old cars. I LOVE IT!

http://www.antiapathy.org/wornagain/home.html

Anti Apathy is a great site too, so do some perusing.

 

[shoegal2183]

The Worn Again Shoes are very interesting looking. I like them!

 

[fashionista-ta]

This company is cool: http://www.crispina.com/

My bedroom curtains are from them, patchwork recycled (washed/felted) wool sweaters. Great at blocking sunlight, and very interesting to look at.

 

[fash ho']

well, i just re-read the earlier debate and think it was interesting. i like the concept of mindful consumption as its pretty all-embracing and open enough for interpretation. I have worked for environmental NGOs for years and i think i must be quite a liberal environmentalist because i was often surprised at how vehement (or judgy) some colleagues could be about quite superficial things such as clothing. In fact, when i was at university, i remember a group of rich hippy-types (we called them trustafarians) who were super-judgey about other people in the environmental studies faculty wearing nike trainers or whatever but weren't really interested in going beyond the superficial to engage the nike wearer in dialogue and perhaps enlighten them a bit . . . It seemed like silly in-fighting (kind of like a tiny microcosm of what happened in the feminist movement, see Ariel Levy's Female Chauvinistg Pigs).

Anyway, talking about trainers, the sustainable style blog www.fiftyrx3.com has a feature on some quite cool looking trainers right now . . . .

 

[shoegal2183]

in the july issue of Good housekeeping there is an article about 50 ways to go green. I'll post some and if anyone is interested in reading more I'll do the rest later!

Personal Style

Dress in eco-chic clothing. Lara Miller's Melissa tunic is 100% bamboo yet it is soft as silk. For stores go to laramiller.net. Linda Loudermild, an eco-couture designer uses fabric made from sasawashi (A Japanese leaf) along with bamboo, soya, and other exotic self sustaining plants (lindaloudermilk.com)

Opt for new undies
Wearing 100% organic cotton panties reduces your exposure to chemical pestcides in a sensitive area. Try Blue Canoe brand (goodhumans.com)

Make up with Mother Nature
Aveda's All sensitive Body Formula moisturizing body oil uses organic jojoba. What's more most of Aveda's packaging is made from recycled material.
A makeup line that is entirely organic: Nvey Eco (econveybeauty.com. We particularly like their eyeshadows

Get sporty eco style
Patogonia's PCR fleece vest is made from recycled soda bottles

Be Clean and green

Pangea Organics soaps which are made with organic and often Fair Trade Certified ingredients are scented with oils like lavender and lemongrass. They come in a biodegradable carton that will start disintegrating within 48 hours if you plant it in your garden. Available at Whole Foods Market

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ Hey, pretty cool that Good Housekeeping had a green issue And some good info there too.

 

[shoegal2183]

I was searching online for some ideas to repurpose some furniture (and still haven't found what I was looking for so if you have experience doing that send me a message so I can get some tips!) and came arcoss this site with some furniture made from sustainable and efficient materials and besides furniture they have LOTSA different catagories. I'll post some pictures to spark interest but you should check this site out!!!

http://www.gotoreviews.com (All pictures from this site as well)

Made from recycled newsprint, these remarkable and disposable slippers cost less than 50 cents each. The color is natural and no bleaching agents/chemicals have been used — even the cord and the support tube are made from twisted unbleached paper.

We like to see more effective products could directly replace exising ones. This organic cotton shirt is an example of that. Boll say they created this shirt because they could not find an dress shirt made with organic cotton available anywhere. So they made this dress shirt out of 100% organic U.S. Supima cotton and single-ply SwissCotton organic yarns from <A href="http://buhleryarns.com/PagesEnglish/produkte/frames/navorganic.htm">Hermann B?/a>. The shirt sells for $55 which includes shipping.
Boll Organic Cotton Shirt

We have to call this furniture "ultraminimalist".
Designed by Adapt using strips of bamboo (hence renewable). The pieces are portable — you can bring it to the beach or an event on grass.

Benjamin" Stool by Ikea

This stool is composed of a single piece of lacquered beech veneer.
Furniture built using a single piece of bent wood such as this requires much less energy to manufacture and less raw wood. (There are many renewable resource made by Ikea listed)

 

[shoegal2183]

I don't mean to spam this thread, but I was just reading about American Apparel's sustainable Edition:

American Apparel’s latest innovation, the Sustainable Edition, made with 100% USDA Certified Organic Cotton, is our first step in addressing the environmental crisis caused by the use of pesticides during the cotton cultivation process. We now offer many of our most popular styles in organic cotton and plan to further integrate sustainable cotton into our production.

http://www.americanapparelstore.com/sustainable-edition-all-styles.html

 

[fashionista-ta]

Gaiam has some green furniture ... www.gaiam.com And I believe their stuff is fair trade too. I have read about their doing factory visits (in the real press, not their own materials).

But IMHO one of the best things you can do is buy vintage/antique (reuse). What are you looking for specifically, and what styles do you like? I have found some good stuff on eBay, particularly Deco. If you like mid-century modern, there are tons of sources for the real thing.

 

[sea of stitches]

Hajnalka Mandula, born and raised in Hungary, now resides in Vancouver, Canada, and Los Angeles Fashion Week is hosting her west coast debut. An organic designer through and through, she utilises natural elements varying from coffee, tea and pumpkin seeds to the more off-beat porcupine needles. Mandula layers her collections as if her models were Victorian ballerinas in men's shoes. Tonight's collection was shown in installation form with models romantically draped amongst one another. A silk, three-quarter-length, puff sleeved blouse was tucked into a double-layered tweed wool skirt with a top layer of cotton gauze that gathered into a vintage leather waistband. A cream, bubble-shaped, hand-crinkled, cotton gauze dress with a hand-knitted, silk metallic belt came over organic cotton canvas extra-long pencil pants, while a cotton canvas jacket had shoulder details and petal-like collars: Mandula's autumn/winter 2006-7 collection set the tone for Gen Art's "New Garde". (March 17 2006, PM)

vogue.co.uk

i would so wear all of these!!

edit: for some reason i thought all of her stuff was organic, but now i'm not so sure as only one fabric was labeled organic above. sorry.

 

[fash ho']

beautiful stuff, though ^^^^^

 

[Stylebites]

in the july issue of Good Housekeeping there is an article about 50 ways to go green...

Isn't it great advice? Sustainable? Ha! I read "50 Ways to Go Buy More Stuff"

Did anyone else read that too?

Sustainability is about tempering your urge to shop, making the things you have last longer (invest in classics over trends), and being more mindful about consumer tendancies. Not to mention disposing of the things you don't need anymore in a way that benefits others and the earth.

...oh, and I the "trustifarians" term! hahahaha...

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ True, but few magazines write about *not* buying stuff because they depend on advertising dollars for their survival I still find articles like this very useful, because eventually I probably will need to buy a t-shirt, shampoo, soap, towels, sheets, PJs, whatever, and when I do, I want to know everything I can about how to buy green.