noone is questioning ford's appeal as a marketer. it's the designer part that people on tFS were dissatisfied with. i'm trying to remember "architectural masterpieces" that the blonde is referring to in her original post, but all i see is logo ridden handbags.
Ford-less Gucci
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noone is questioning ford's appeal as a marketer. it's the designer part that people on tFS were dissatisfied with. i'm trying to remember "architectural masterpieces" that the blonde is referring to in her original post, but all i see is logo ridden handbags.
Actually, you can see his architechtural knowledge in the attention to creating a line, even if he couldn't cut, he had an eye for lines. The accessories, well they don't show it very much, except for mabye one shoe he did that I can think of.
PrinceOfCats
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For me the bottom line is, if infinite trained monkeys with ateliers could come up with high-fashion then about three, untrained, dyspraxic monkeys could come up with TF... 
metal-on-metal
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Uh, first of all, you can cut the "honey" business with me. I think we're both mature enough not to talk down to each other.
Second of all, I consider myself extremely realistic and yes I do know that it takes a lot of talent to sell bags and shoes. I'm not a fan of AF Vandevorst and I don't think every woman has to be an "edgy intellectual", as you put it.
I was trying to make a point that, with advertising big bucks, Anna Wintour, Carine, and the power of celebrity behind you, it's hard NOT to make a hit item. When the whole fashion world NEEDS you to succeed, they will do everything to make sure your collections are popular. There's an inner web that encompasses not just Conde Nast and the Wintour cronies. Practically every publication can be manipulated through ad sales. So when it comes to promoting the latest Gucci it-bag, it's not hard.
I say, Tom Ford was clever at selling a certain image that some people may find desirable. But he had little to no talent as a designer. He's a stylist and an imagemaker. Not a designer. That's what this debate was about.
I just wish we could all stop talking about him. There's a cocktail reception at Bergdorf's tonight in honor of his new book by Rizzoli and it seems as if he'll never disappear from the radar. I don't believe in living in the past, or pining for a pair of Gucci pants from 1999. Things change, people change, hemlines rise and fall, we move on.
With all do respect, some people aren't ready to "move on." Many people at TFS still like Tom Ford, regardless of how many people denounce him.
Who's to say that he wasn't a designer. He came up with something else every season to please his customer. It might not have suited your tastes, but it surely suited many others. (Just out of curiousity though, what makes you say that he wasn't a designer? I've read that countless times on this board, but I don't understand where that comes from)
Well, he never had any extensive design training, he really only worked under other designers, so to some he doesn't have the technical skills to be considered a designer.
It all really depends on your opinion whther or not you regard him as a designer.
mikeijames
no tom ford, no thanks.
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metal (wasn't meaning to belittle, but to lighten the tone of this conversation), i would like to know who does pass your test to become what's widely regarded as a "great designer" or "fashion icon"? by your standards, you have eliminated every bold name designer i know. miuccia prada doesn't sit down and sketch dresses; karl lagerfeld doesn't ponder the every design element at his sixteen or collections; and even tFS favorites watanabe, kokosalaki, and giberson, do not put together a collection, or style a runway look without an understanding of what's going on in the world around them and the trends that shape the industry in which they work.
as easy as it seems, building a fashion brand from the skeptical investment of group of middle eastern speculators and the heritage of a hyper-dramatic italian family's name is anything but. tom ford has become iconic because he has changed the face of fashion as we know it. in a former era, someone with a strong personal vision and the skill to sketch would have been king, but in today's world, these are just designers and design assistants. it takes something more to lead these giant brands to success and to keep the new fashion they present modern and relevant. i know a handful of designers. they're passionate, they're devoted, they're super talented. they're not bold faced names. but because of these bold face names, they have jobs doing what they like. in our shifting world, these conglomerates are keeping a lot of design talent working and keeping fashion as we know it alive. and for his part, tom ford has invigorated millions to fantasize, to spend, and to love fashion for fashion's sake again. so that makes him more than a designer, it makes him a fashion icon.
Actually,there is this great divide between being a createur and being just a mere stylist. It has nothing to do with personal tastes as Spike said. Thing is,Tom Ford didn't design because he had a design team behind him for whom he just "directed". They did the actual designing. Is that what you consider designing? He's a stylist...purely because he just formalized his ideas into an image for whatever season. Nothing more,nothing less.
Do you realise that you just equated Tom Ford with the founder of McDonalds or with Henry Ford or with Bill Gates, or with any other icon of business - only you applied it to fashion? There is not a word that you wrote yet about the merit of Tom Ford as a designer. He's a salesman, and that's the bottom line.
The "fashion icon" as you put it in my opinion are those that burst onto the fashion scene, made a revolution, and pushed the stale boundaries - all through their designs and not with the financial might behind them. Do you know how the Belgian Six got famous? All they could afford was a little tent in the remotest corner of the London fashion week in 1986. It was their CREATIONS that made the splash, the clothes spoke for them and not their investors money (they didn't have any investors), not their business acumen, not their media connections, not their suave sleezy personality (which they didn't have either). And what is more important - these designers stayed true to themselves after becoming famous. Take Dries van Noten for example, probably the most successful of them all - who refuses to expand production and advertise - because he wants to concentrate on design and not on business matters. If not for these artists and creators, I wouldn't even be interested in fashion. The likes of Gucci are nothing more than expensive Juicy Couture - just as vulgar, just as ugly, just as meaningless.
mikeijames
no tom ford, no thanks.
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you know what, you're right...all of those designers exist in a vacuum and dress imaginary women.
just because you don't think they are aware of trend many of them are quite aware (especially in asian markets where they're stuff is snatched up in bulk) of what the stores want and what their clients expect.
mikeijames
no tom ford, no thanks.
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i'm not trying to make a comparison between tom ford and domenico de sole and henry ford or bill gates; the beglian six became famous as a reaction to the culture surrounding fashion. sort of like independent films became a genre in and of itself because of mainstream film. and what exactly do you think tom ford spent his early days at gucci doing? putting outfits together? making business plans? and none of the belgian six would remain in business without some idea of the nature of the fashion industry and trend. they obey it almost as religiously as the diors and chanels of this world. they just pretend like they don't.
rrrriiiiiiiiiight. that's why they don't advertise, don't dress celebrities, and that's why some of them don't even stage runway shows.
you are right about what the belgians did - only you inadequately call it reaction, i call it revolution.
anyway, tom is getting way too much attention, i think this thread is getting tiresome.
Originally posted by mikeijames@Oct 21 2004, 10:07 AM
you know what, you're right...all of those designers exist in a vacuum and dress imaginary women.
just because you don't think they are aware of trend many of them are quite aware (especially in asian markets where they're stuff is snatched up in bulk) of what the stores want and what their clients expect.
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You know,there really is no need to patronize me,Mike. I'm not a child.
Do you work on the marketing side of fashion? If not,how do you know what these designer pay attention to? ALL of them I've heard have made it very clear they do not pay attention to trends. Not my thoughts but what they have said. And it certainly doesn't mean they don't care about what their customers want....in fact that's all they think about. I mean,do you honestly equate trendiness with how everybody dresses and buys things?! Nobody is alike and nobody shops the same way as others...individuals darling. That's how these designers think.
And btw,having a business doesn't equal marketeering. Your comparison of these designers with the way Tom Ford worked is absurd. Its like comparing Wal-Mart with Betty's Cermaics....it just isn't that way.
Anyway,I'm sick of discussing this. I find it rather pathetic that you people are still fawning over somebody who clearly was only businessman and a not a designer. I mean this is fashion. I thought this kind of praise was worthy of brilliant designers not brilliant marketers. He isn't Cristobal or Rudi for chrissake! Will you all be mourning Bernard Arnault like this if he goes??
I stand by my statement that it is a matter of opinion. If Ford didn't have any design ability whatsoover, even in the basics, he never would've been hired at Gucci, it's not like he was hired as a creative director on the spot.....he was part of the design team that he then directed in later years.
If you think about it, the Belgian six have revolutionized another area of fashion. Just as Tom created an image of hedonism and luxury, they've created an image of ecclecticism and intrigue.
No, mabye Tom wasn't an extremely talented designer but he did have SOME merit somewhere along the line. And as for the whole celebrity thing, he worked to become one, he didn't intentionally step into the limelight, even though it was a role that he played well.
