Ghesquière In N.Y.

[mikeijames]

Originally posted by faust@Apr 27th, 2004 - 12:31 pm

but, do you think he is succeeding?

with very few exceptions, yes.

i don't want to go into all of the different instances: but i really think that balenciaga channels the mood of a season in a way that's particular to ghesquiere. in a season of over-size and flowing, he did tight and structured; in a season of lady-like and refinement, he did street and deconstrution. he's not alone, but he's one of a few.

i don't think he's gotten balenciaga to perform financially where it should be though. i think that could easily change with the launch of a fragrance and/or some other venture like eyewear or another must-have bag.

 

[metal-on-metal]

Originally posted by mikeijames@Apr 27th, 2004 - 3:16 pm
i think that could easily change with the launch of a fragrance and/or some other venture like eyewear or another must-have bag.

If Balenciaga launched a fragrance line, so many people would leave it in droves.

The problem with a cult, "insider" label is that the supposed insiders who support it will retreat at the drop of a hat once the label goes global. There is no loyalty. They buy it to look cool and in-the-know and then move on once Anna Wintour and Gucci Group have caught on. This was the case with Balenciaga from 1998-2001. Then in 2002 came the infamous Kaisik Wong disaster. In 2003, Nicolas showed two mediocre collections and that, combined with the boycotts and fit issues, has left Balenciaga items drabbly dangling at 65% off at the end of the season.

I have to admit, I still love it. I love trawling eBay for rare pieces from his earlier collections for the house. And I love keeping up with the backstabbing bitchiness that goes on with Balenciaga in the NY and Paris scenes. But for me, too, some of that original magic is gone. Today I saw some of those fall 2004 chain dresses in person and they were really rather pathetic. The metallic paint was wearing off in the creases and they were so incredibly heavy that I can't see anyone actually wearing them.

Balenciaga was such a driving force in fashion and it's rather sad to see it lose its footing like this.

 

[mikeijames]

Originally posted by chickonspeed@Apr 27th, 2004 - 10:35 pm
If Balenciaga launched a fragrance line, so many people would leave it in droves.

i agree with you partially. i think that balenciaga has a series of credibility problems. i think that other houses have held on to their "legitimacy" while exploring other ventures. i think of the commes de garcon fragrances and dior homme's denim lines. but i think that the plagiarism issue hurt so bad because everyone had such a strong positive reaction to that collection at first. it was a huge let down even for those who LOVED ghesquiere at balenciaga.

and i must say that balenciaga runway looks really do not matriculate into the stores very well. i think back to spring of 2003 where the aquatic and jungle prints presented had such a vivid impact where in the stores most items looked cheaply air brushed at best. the ideas are fresh and directional, but i think there's a huge disconnect when it comes to actually getting your hands on that look.

i think/hope that some of that will turn around with fall '04 because he's building those balenciaga essentials that everyone will want. the billowy pant, the tight jacket, and of course the balloon dress....things that are pretty hard to mess up.

 

[asta]

Originally posted by mikeijames+Apr 28th, 2004 - 1:34 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikeijames @ Apr 28th, 2004 - 1:34 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-chickonspeed@Apr 27th, 2004 - 10:35 pm
If Balenciaga launched a fragrance line, so many people would leave it in droves.

i agree with you partially. i think that balenciaga has a series of credibility problems. i think that other houses have held on to their "legitimacy" while exploring other ventures. i think of the commes de garcon fragrances and dior homme's denim lines. but i think that the plagiarism issue hurt so bad because everyone had such a strong positive reaction to that collection at first. it was a huge let down even for those who LOVED ghesquiere at balenciaga.

and i must say that balenciaga runway looks really do not matriculate into the stores very well. i think back to spring of 2003 where the aquatic and jungle prints presented had such a vivid impact where in the stores most items looked cheaply air brushed at best. the ideas are fresh and directional, but i think there's a huge disconnect when it comes to actually getting your hands on that look.

i think/hope that some of that will turn around with fall '04 because he's building those balenciaga essentials that everyone will want. the billowy pant, the tight jacket, and of course the balloon dress....things that are pretty hard to mess up. [/b][/quote]
yeah, but is the balloon dress relevant in today's market? the glory of balenciaga's designs is that they were fresh, new, and statuesque.

a new version will just be... well, i don't know... another rochas line.

i honestly hope that the "look" can be updated.... but i fear in updating a vintage classic, it will just become a cheap, redone immitation.

to me, some looks need not be appropriated. it is bothersome to me when houses are reopened after they are closed.... and the greatness is then lost or diluted....

 

[Spacemiu]

Originally posted by chickonspeed+Apr 27th, 2004 - 8:35 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chickonspeed @ Apr 27th, 2004 - 8:35 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-mikeijames@Apr 27th, 2004 - 3:16 pm
i think that could easily change with the launch of a fragrance and/or some other venture like eyewear or another must-have bag.

If Balenciaga launched a fragrance line, so many people would leave it in droves.

The problem with a cult, "insider" label is that the supposed insiders who support it will retreat at the drop of a hat once the label goes global. There is no loyalty. They buy it to look cool and in-the-know and then move on once Anna Wintour and Gucci Group have caught on. This was the case with Balenciaga from 1998-2001. Then in 2002 came the infamous Kaisik Wong disaster. In 2003, Nicolas showed two mediocre collections and that, combined with the boycotts and fit issues, has left Balenciaga items drabbly dangling at 65% off at the end of the season.

I have to admit, I still love it. I love trawling eBay for rare pieces from his earlier collections for the house. And I love keeping up with the backstabbing bitchiness that goes on with Balenciaga in the NY and Paris scenes. But for me, too, some of that original magic is gone. Today I saw some of those fall 2004 chain dresses in person and they were really rather pathetic. The metallic paint was wearing off in the creases and they were so incredibly heavy that I can't see anyone actually wearing them.

Balenciaga was such a driving force in fashion and it's rather sad to see it lose its footing like this. [/b][/quote]
think you put it perfectly

 

[Lena]

ahh i think i've finally found what annoys me in NG's style

apart from the occasional lack of originality
(he did it once, he could be doing again)
it must be his 'anxiety' to impress,
his overworked-overtired paterns
i think it destroys his 'elegance'

i always found him annoying and unfit for the Balenciaga chair.
positive, Martin Grant or Ralf Rucci could be perfect for this House.

><

 

[tott]

Or someone like you, Lena...

 

[metal-on-metal]

Originally posted by Lena@Apr 28th, 2004 - 5:06 pm
i always found him annoying and unfit for the Balenciaga chair.
positive, Martin Grant or Ralf Rucci could be perfect for this House.

Oh come on, Lena. You didn't even enjoy Balenciaga fall 2000? That collection was pure magic from start to finish. Back then, Balenciaga was truly exciting to watch and everyone was dying to see what he'd do next. I'd kill for one of those raccoon tail applique jackets!

You can, of course, have your own opinion but I've never met anyone who wasn't positively entranced with that show.

 

[metal-on-metal]

Also, while I am a fan of Grant and Ralph Rucci, I don't think they would have succeeded in the way Nicolas originally did. We don't need another dusty dowager fashion house. Yes, they are both very elegant, but the fun in Balenciaga was it's streetwise sassiness and that energy and jolt of buzz surrounding it. I don't think that would have come about at the hands of either of the designers you mention.

 

[Lena]

Originally posted by tott@Apr 28th, 2004 - 10:25 pm
Or someone like you, Lena...

oh no, i'd be scared to

 

[Lena]

Originally posted by chickonspeed@Apr 28th, 2004 - 10:37 pm
Yes, they are both very elegant, but the fun in Balenciaga was it's streetwise sassiness and that energy and jolt of buzz surrounding it. I don't think that would have come about at the hands of either of the designers you mention.

you see, i dont think the balenciaga label should be about "sassiness"
but about elegance instead and yes, true, neither Rucci nor Grant
could be good in sassy.

no problems with diversity in opinions

 

[tott]

I think you could do it...

 

[softgrey]

Originally posted by Lena@Apr 28th, 2004 - 5:53 pm
but the fun in Balenciaga was it's streetwise sassiness and that energy and jolt of buzz surrounding it.

you see, i dont think the balenciaga label should be about "sassiness"
but about elegance instead

i agree with lena's statement...balenciaga should be about elegance and drama and fantasy...

i think olivier theyskens is turning rochas into what balenciaga should have been...i'm looking forward to what he will become...

 

[Lena]

i agree softgrey,
even though i dont like theyskens' Rochas work,
he is doing a much better job at re-establishing the Rochas label
while keeping it close to its origins

tott thank you

 

[Spacemiu]

Originally posted by Lena+Apr 28th, 2004 - 3:53 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lena @ Apr 28th, 2004 - 3:53 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-chickonspeed@Apr 28th, 2004 - 10:37 pm
Yes, they are both very elegant, but the fun in Balenciaga was it's streetwise sassiness and that energy and jolt of buzz surrounding it. I don't think that would have come about at the hands of either of the designers you mention.

you see, i dont think the balenciaga label should be about "sassiness"
but about elegance instead and yes, true, neither Rucci nor Grant
could be good in sassy.

no problems with diversity in opinions [/b][/quote]
I see what you are saying

but I do feel that balenciaga has a very modern style with a sens of volume and aurcetechure, wich i think Nicholas G. is doing well .

 

[softgrey]

Originally posted by chickonspeed@Apr 28th, 2004 - 4:32 pm

Oh come on, Lena. You didn't even enjoy Balenciaga fall 2000? That collection was pure magic from start to finish. Back then, Balenciaga was truly exciting to watch and everyone was dying to see what he'd do next. I'd kill for one of those raccoon tail applique jackets!

You can, of course, have your own opinion but I've never met anyone who wasn't positively entranced with that show.

hehehe...i thought that collection with the tails hanging off the extreme shoulder pads and blouson jackets was VERY CHRSYTAL CARRINGTON FROM DYNASTY...and i thought it was ugly and silly back then...so i certainly wouldn't say i was 'entranced' by it when ghesquiere re-hashed it...

must be a generational thing...if you've already seen it once in your lifetime...you're usually not that impressed by the immitators who come along later...

i think those williamsburg girls who buy that stuff at a thrift store for $3 and put it together with some style look good, but that's because it's ironic...and in that case amusing...

 

[metal-on-metal]

Krystle Carrington wishes she ever looked this good.

Lena and softgrey,

I understand your criticisms and I certainly always appreciate your opinions. And while I do see that Nicolas' work for the past two years has been lacking in many ways, I think it's very hard to deny the powerful force that was Balenciaga from 1998-2002. To say that Nicolas' collections have always been stale and devoid of imagination/technique is even more out there.

That skinny 'V' silhouette he championed in collections from 2000 and 2001 is EVERYWHERE these days. It certainly didn't trickle down. It was adopted by so many other so-called fashion luminaries. His current collection (especially the chain dresses) is not as accomplished, but I do have a bit of faith that he can return the house to what it once was. I am certainly looking forward to spring 2005.

 

[mikeijames]

Originally posted by softgrey@Apr 28th, 2004 - 8:34 pm
must be a generational thing...if you've already seen it once in your lifetime...you're usually not that impressed by the immitators who come along later...

i think those williamsburg girls who buy that stuff at a thrift store for $3 and put it together with some style look good, but that's because it's ironic...and in that case amusing...

you have to remember that ghesquiere has defined the balenciaga woman as young skinny rich and not a slave to trend...that collection held a particular type of magic to those who saw it for the first time...and martin grant nor ralph rucci would have brought balenciaga the type of business to keep its doors open....does no one remember the days of a line outside of the balenciaga boutique in paris...?

i still see people with the lariat bags en masse...i think that ghesquiere's aesthetic is very modern and very desireable...

 

[ignitioned32]

I think I very much agree with chick when she said

Also, while I am a fan of Grant and Ralph Rucci, I don't think they would have succeeded in the way Nicolas originally did. We don't need another dusty dowager fashion house. Yes, they are both very elegant, but the fun in Balenciaga was it's streetwise sassiness and that energy and jolt of buzz surrounding it. I don't think that would have come about at the hands of either of the designers you mention.

See Ralph or Martin could not have re-invented it the way Nicholas did. They most probably will be doing things similar to their lines since both are influenced by him.

 

[Lena]

Originally posted by chickonspeed@Apr 29th, 2004 - 3:47 am
To say that Nicolas' collections have always been stale and devoid of imagination/technique is even more out there.

i never thought he's stale for imagination or technique,
on the contrary my point is that he's trying too hard
both for imagination and on technique, i feel his recent
collections are real 'forced'.
i also agree he's been copied en masse, at the time
that he was making waves at Balenciaga, but who doesnt?

Diane Kruger in Balenciaga with Nicolas Ghesquière
no, i wouldnt like to wear something like this..
and why is he always poutting??

the problem i see with NG's work is that he is not 'creating'
in the Balenciaga mood. If he was leading his own label,
i wouldnt criticise him at all for his style, it is just that
for me, the Balenciaga label stands for an entirely
different 'style' a mood i havent seen yet from NG.

the fact that he gets so shamelesly 'inspired' by other designer's
collections is also annoying me,
i mean he works for Balenciaga..
why should he turn to others for 'inspiration'?
why should he endanger client faith in the label?

As for the time when there clients were waiting outside
the Balenciaga boutiques.. hmm long gone, right?
The NG fanclub evaporated in thin smoke as soon the
'inspiration' 'scandal' came out. His 'admirers' are the
'usual suspects' that follow whatever is hot at the moment,
i bet they are already thrilled with Phoebe Philo this season,
-just because she got rave reviews- that's only until the media
decides somebody else is the 'star' designer of the season..
These are clients without substance, the kind that follows
the 'hot label' hype at any given time.