Hedi Slimane - Designer

[LadyJunon]

A silence that says 1'000 words.

 

[LadyJunon]

I have one question about Hedi's Celine:

How did this tenure become so successful despite having everything in "The Laws of High Fashion" fight against its existence?

His success at Dior Homme and Saint Laurent make perfect sense to me, but the story of Celine puzzles me. He replaces a universally loved designer, completely rebrands the house and puts out a collection that incites actual genuine rage, which is then followed by indifference to the following set of collections.

Nowadays, Celine is getting a lot of popularity and buzz with sales having gone from just under €500m at the time of his arrival to over €2b at the end of last year.

What happened between then and now to provoke such a hard shift in perception?

 

[Kimihiro]

I have one question about Hedi's Celine:

How did this tenure become so successful despite having everything in "The Laws of High Fashion" fight against its existence?

His success at Dior Homme and Saint Laurent make perfect sense to me, but the story of Celine puzzles me. He replaces a universally loved designer, completely rebrands the house and puts out a collection that incites actual genuine rage, which is then followed by indifference to the following set of collections.

Nowadays, Celine is getting a lot of popularity and buzz with sales having gone from just under €500m at the time of his arrival to over €2b at the end of last year.

What happened between then and now to provoke such a hard shift in perception?

His Celine is somehow a perfect example of how an echo chamber online doesn’t necessarily translate to the real world. I still believe if they went on with what he had for the first show it would’ve flopped. Nobody really cares in the real world but I too still wonders how could they sell that well. Btw Phoebe was doing under a Billion I think.

Several things I observed though. The retail network just got much bigger but still tightly controlled. Still not as big as Fendi (even if Celine is performing better) but they’re opening up stores left and right and I know cities who got several stores in just a year or two. I can’t even remember the last time I saw a Phoebe-era store. Almost everything has been gutted and expanded. You might sell bigger with that.

Now more stores doesn’t guarantee more sales. I mentioned Fendi because even if it has a bigger retail network Celine seems to be doing better. Fendi also has more marketing initiatives. This is just me armchairing it. I guess the products come to play with that. I see the Triomphe bag everywhere and Hedi Slimane historically sells RTW well. The moment his designs at Celine became more accessible (logos lol) sales picked up. Hedi Celine is also big in Asia (where Phoebe wasn’t as big) so couple that with localized ambassadors and it might work. They’ve also increased prices aggressively in the last few years.

Even with [retail network+it bag+asia+lalisa manobal+massive price increase] I still question how could it sell more than Balenciaga or Fendi with their massive marketing and exposure. They don’t have a concrete online presence and really they’re only everywhere when I see physical ads in big cities, but are those enough?

 

[LadyJunon]

His Celine is somehow a perfect example of how an echo chamber online doesn’t necessarily translate to the real world. I still believe if they went on with what he had for the first show it would’ve flopped. Nobody really cares in the real world but I too still wonders how could they sell that well. Btw Phoebe was doing under a Billion I think.

Several things I observed though. The retail network just got much bigger but still tightly controlled. Still not as big as Fendi (even if Celine is performing better) but they’re opening up stores left and right and I know cities who got several stores in just a year or two. I can’t even remember the last time I saw a Phoebe-era store. Almost everything has been gutted and expanded. You might sell bigger with that.

Now more stores doesn’t guarantee more sales. I mentioned Fendi because even if it has a bigger retail network Celine seems to be doing better. Fendi also has more marketing initiatives. This is just me armchairing it. I guess the products come to play with that. I see the Triomphe bag everywhere and Hedi Slimane historically sells RTW well. The moment his designs at Celine became more accessible (logos lol) sales picked up. Hedi Celine is also big in Asia (where Phoebe wasn’t as big) so couple that with localized ambassadors and it might work. They’ve also increased prices aggressively in the last few years.

Even with [retail network+it bag+asia+lalisa manobal+massive price increase] I still question how could it sell more than Balenciaga or Fendi with their massive marketing and exposure. They don’t have a concrete online presence and really they’re only everywhere when I see physical ads in big cities, but are those enough?

That makes a bit more sense now.

 

[MulletProof]

I don't see Asia as secondary at all. He'd be long gone if he had kept the 'exclusive nightclub you're dying to get in' format when no one was really dying to get in and he continually encountered resistance in the West, and if he hadn't done the unthinkable and opened up the gates to the lowest common denominator, the most massive market of fanatics and rampant consumerism: kpop.

It would be interesting to see sales by region, because I really think it's the Asian kids that breath and understand life through kpop what keep this going, followed by the influencers, the 'cool' guests are just fillers at this point.

 

[Kimihiro]

He has renewed contract, no? Last February it was 5 years since he started. I could only try imagine what more demands he asked from LVMH.

 

[LadyJunon]

That makes a bit more sense now.

I don't see Asia as secondary at all. He'd be long gone if he had kept the 'exclusive nightclub you're dying to get in' format when no one was really dying to get in and he continually encountered resistance in the West, and if he hadn't done the unthinkable and opened up the gates to the lowest common denominator, the most massive market of fanatics and rampant consumerism: kpop.

It would be interesting to see sales by region, because I really think it's the Asian kids that breath and understand life through kpop what keep this going, followed by the influencers, the 'cool' guests are just fillers at this point.

Let me correct myself, this makes more sense.

To be fair, Vaccarello is doing the same thing with BlackPink and their idol, Rosé.

 

[MulletProof]

^ yeah but it doesn't hit quite the same way because Vaccarello's greatest talent is his willingness to blend into a wall when needed. Hedi is convinced he's running a subculture lol (just like he's convinced he single-handedly made Berlin, London and Los Angeles 'happen' ) and that pompous, omnipotent god complex speaks straight into the extra submissive, 'dying for a cult leader' mentality of kpop consumers. It must've been a humbling process to accept that was his market, basically the equivalent of One Direction/manufactured boy bands, and not the more snobbish, indie band scene he still thinks Celine is about.. but at least it's delivering the numbers.

 

[LadyJunon]

^ yeah but it doesn't hit quite the same way because Vaccarello's greatest talent is his willingness to blend into a wall when needed.

I always forget that behind the biannual, bipartite audiovisual spectacles in front of the Eiffel Tower is a somewhat introverted man.

He doesn't even seem to like coming out to bow at the end of his shows. Must be the Belgian in him.

It must've been a humbling process to accept that was his market, basically the equivalent of One Direction/manufactured boy bands, and not the more snobbish, indie band scene he still thinks Celine is about.. but at least it's delivering the numbers.

Must be karma for demoting the Saint Laurent/Celine woman from protagonist to bland love interest who gets killed (or worse) for character development.

 

[Lola701]

I have one question about Hedi's Celine:

How did this tenure become so successful despite having everything in "The Laws of High Fashion" fight against its existence?

His success at Dior Homme and Saint Laurent make perfect sense to me, but the story of Celine puzzles me. He replaces a universally loved designer, completely rebrands the house and puts out a collection that incites actual genuine rage, which is then followed by indifference to the following set of collections.

Nowadays, Celine is getting a lot of popularity and buzz with sales having gone from just under €500m at the time of his arrival to over €2b at the end of last year.

What happened between then and now to provoke such a hard shift in perception?

Tbh the success wasn’t there right away and isn’t build similarly to what he did at YSL and DH.
YSL and DH was really about that idea of a wardrobe. DH sold a lot of jeans and sneakers maybe but the DH customer consumed fashion. At YSL, there was a perfect connection to what was presented and what was sold, everything backed up by the permanent collection (that Vaccarello can’t get rid of).

Celine has a different structure suddenly. They are selling a lot of « merch ». He still has that fashion customer that has followed him but now people don’t want to recreate the « Slimane look ». They wants to let you know that they are wearing Celine.

He is a genius creative director so the precision of his vision will always triumph everything but the current direction they took (both from a creative and business perspective) make the success of the house almost independent to the quality of the collections.

Celine is everywhere and it’s quite « Mass taste ».

The success of Phoebe’s Celine is a bit similar to the success of Nicolas’s Balenciaga. It was a particular taste, a particular POV, a particular aesthetic and overall not so much compromises. You don’t generate billions from that.

You see those who came after got rid of that and generated billions.

I’m sure Hedi doing Merch has more to do with him understanding what the business needs from him than a pure creative decision.

 

[tricotineacetat]

Tbh the success wasn’t there right away and isn’t build similarly to what he did at YSL and DH.
YSL and DH was really about that idea of a wardrobe. DH sold a lot of jeans and sneakers maybe but the DH customer consumed fashion. At YSL, there was a perfect connection to what was presented and what was sold, everything backed up by the permanent collection (that Vaccarello can’t get rid of).

Celine has a different structure suddenly. They are selling a lot of « merch ». He still has that fashion customer that has followed him but now people don’t want to recreate the « Slimane look ». They wants to let you know that they are wearing Celine.

He is a genius creative director so the precision of his vision will always triumph everything but the current direction they took (both from a creative and business perspective) make the success of the house almost independent to the quality of the collections.

Celine is everywhere and it’s quite « Mass taste ».

The success of Phoebe’s Celine is a bit similar to the success of Nicolas’s Balenciaga. It was a particular taste, a particular POV, a particular aesthetic and overall not so much compromises. You don’t generate billions from that.

You see those who came after got rid of that and generated billions.

I’m sure Hedi doing Merch has more to do with him understanding what the business needs from him than a pure creative decision.

I agree to that 100% - Note how everything from a sequin-embroidered turtleneck top to a leather jacket will now have a CELINE-logo plastered on it, that's something most of the customers who have followed Hedi from all his previous gigs actually abhor to display. There was a discretion there with Hedi's previous work that during the process of making CELINE a real household luxury goods brand got lost - Added to that the fact that there is easily digestable fashion to back it up that can work for a diversity of customers and markets and you have a formula for a brand that could very well take over the place of what Gucci used to be under Alessandro Michele.

 

[vetements]

I agree to that 100% - Note how everything from a sequin-embroidered turtleneck top to a leather jacket will now have a CELINE-logo plastered on it, that's something most of the customers who have followed Hedi from all his previous gigs actually abhor to display. There was a discretion there with Hedi's previous work that during the process of making CELINE a real household luxury goods brand got lost - Added to that the fact that there is easily digestable fashion to back it up that can work for a diversity of customers and markets and you have a formula for a brand that could very well take over the place of what Gucci used to be under Alessandro Michele.

Totally agree with both of you, Lola and Tricotineacetat.
To be fair, Hedi didnt had it easy, his early years at Celine saw him on the brink of getting fired especially with all the demands he made, (logo, shopfront designs, exclusive menswear boutique, self designed furniture etc. I remember going there and there was not even one single customer in sight etc ). Sales didnt quite make it.

`Happy` that he bent eventually, it could be to keep his job, it could be maturity, or simply given up I dont know. But I do want to think that deep down, he is not a fan of Kpop or their celebrities...Lola is right that he is an excellent Creative Designer.

Neither do I want to see Celine becoming a brand like Gucci before, it is good to maintain some `mystique` or aloofness like before when it just started.

That, should help with a brand`s longevity, exposed, but never over exposed....

 

[SpeedRacer666]

Any word of anything happening for PFW?

 

[yslforever]

Totally agree with both of you, Lola and Tricotineacetat.
To be fair, Hedi didnt had it easy, his early years at Celine saw him on the brink of getting fired especially with all the demands he made, (logo, shopfront designs, exclusive menswear boutique, self designed furniture etc. I remember going there and there was not even one single customer in sight etc ). Sales didnt quite make it.

`Happy` that he bent eventually, it could be to keep his job, it could be maturity, or simply given up I dont know. But I do want to think that deep down, he is not a fan of Kpop or their celebrities...Lola is right that he is an excellent Creative Designer.

Neither do I want to see Celine becoming a brand like Gucci before, it is good to maintain some `mystique` or aloofness like before when it just started.

That, should help with a brand`s longevity, exposed, but never over exposed....

Hedi was never on the brink of getting fired in his early years at Celine. He was courted for two years by Delphine Arnault and her husband, they went every two months in California to negotiate with him and he had literally carte blanche and open budget before he signed for Celine. He provided all his demands beforehand, including what he didn’t have at Saint-Laurent, ie complete control of the perfume division. His job was never at risk.
Everybody, and the Arnaults the first, understood they were building a large label, on a long-term basis, because they invest with a 20 years term.

 

[Nimsay]

Yeah the Arnaults bent over backwards for Hedi. Celine is his vision 100%.

Hedis taste in perfume is wonderful so - to me - it is great he has full control. The altering of the OG Dior Bois DArgent should be a crime in france. They need to make laws about perfumes too.

SLP is underrated. It was still the hottest mens label at the time. SLP was not the phenomenon DH was. Purely because the look had already changed due to DH.

 

[LadyJunon]

Does anyone know what happening with the SS'24 collections (men's and women's)? I know that they cancelled the July show last minute, but it's mid-October now and I haven't heard any updates on whether we're getting a live show, a film and a simple in-season "drop".

 

[Lola701]

Does anyone know what happening with the SS'24 collections (men's and women's)? I know that they cancelled the July show last minute, but it's mid-October now and I haven't heard any updates on whether we're getting a live show, a film and a simple in-season "drop".

They will probably drop it by the time it arrives in stores.

 

[LadyJunon]

They will probably drop it by the time it arrives in stores.

Makes sense.

 

[LadyJunon]

While I don't really like Hedi Slimane as a designer (primarily because of his bland womenswear), I've always admired how directional the branding at Celine is, especially when compared to "everything, including the kitchen sink" feels Louis Vuitton, Dior, Fendi and Loewe have.

Everything he's done at Celine has this moody, decadent take on the 70s hippie/bourgeoisie with undertones of 00s subculture: the abundance of gold, cream and brown, the abundance of denim, the slouchy tweed and leather jackets, the sequinned evening dresses and jackets, the croc-leather top handles and crossbodys, the bare faces and long flowing hair, the destination shows, the simple black-and-white photography.

It's very warm and luxurious in that old-fashioned way, almost to the point of feeling like a parody on quiet luxury at times (logoed pieces withstanding). They even offer lines like "Grandes Classiques", "Haute Maroquinerie" and "Haute Parfumerie", which give the illusion that this version of Celine has been here for several decades.

 

[lookatme]

^^Big agree.

To be honest, I never cared for his Saint Laurent. Something about it never worked. But his Celine has been a perfect fit.

His first collection or two kind of flopped - the 80’s party look wasn’t right and he knew it. Once he settled into the 70’s bon chic, bon genre look it all clicked.

He gets so much hate, but it’s really not deserved. Is he my favorite designer ever? Not even close. But he’s really good at what he does and I wish more designers were as exacting and obsessed with quality as he is.