How to Get Work in Fashion Magazine Publishing (see Post #1 for related threads)

[prosperk]

Move...



PK

 

[Cicciolina]

All my work experiences etc were back in 05 when i started this thread - and now (thankfully!!!) i work at a magazine publishing house here in syd.

My advice to you is to opt for work experience, then when you are there see if they have any openings for an internship. Basically you come into the mag once or more a week . Unfortunatly you work for free, and you can be working there (free) for up to a year - but if an entry level position comes up - such as coordinator, picture editor, even junior reporter or fashion assistant depending on other background experience - the interns usually have a good chance of getting that job!

Good luck with the move!

F

That's great fashionistasista, congratulations! I've been emailing pretty much all the major fashion magazines in Sydney about work experience/interns and absolutely nothing so far so quite frustrating I used to intern at Follow magazine last year but then it closed down

 

[rangerrick14]

any tips or advice on how to pursue career as a fashion stylist or a fashion editor from oklahoma, USA??

Moving is a good idea because eventually you will have to. But hey take the route I am and just go to a local uni and get together a writing or lookbook portfolio. Find photographer friends to do tests shoots with. And get snipets and other littler work around where you live in local mags or newspapers. Then try and get an internship or assistant job anywhere, I mean anywhere. You need work experience under you. And if you ant to be an editor write, write, write, and more writing.

 

[afriyie]

Moving is a good idea because eventually you will have to. But hey take the route I am and just go to a local uni and get together a writing or lookbook portfolio. Find photographer friends to do tests shoots with. And get snipets and other littler work around where you live in local mags or newspapers. Then try and get an internship or assistant job anywhere, I mean anywhere. You need work experience under you. And if you ant to be an editor write, write, write, and more writing.

oh okay i see what you mean. so should i come up with fske editorials and articles on my opinions and knowledge about fashion? and what do you mean about snipets? like fake editorial shoots??

 

[jf813]

You don't need any specific degree to be a fashion editor. Anna Wintour never went to university, and Andre Leon Talley studied French Literature at Brown. However, the former was born into publishing and ALT was in with Warhol and Diana Vreeland among others.

Honestly, any job in fashion journalism is going to be tough if you aren't already really wealthy and/or well-connected. Most editorial assistants in New York make around $18-22,000 a year, which is practically impossible to live on in the city. AW picks up most of her interns and assistants at Barnard and isn't particularly nice to them either.

None of this should stop you from pursuing your dream, though. A great degree in journalism from maybe Columbia or the London College of Fashion coupled with some impressive internships would be a great start.

You need a degree in this day and age to be any type of editor. Anna Wintour was born into publishing. Carine Roitfeld got lucky. Her partner was a designer and she made contacts through him. That's very rare though.

If you want to make it in this business, go to school, keep your head up and be optimistic.

 

[prosperk]

I wouldn't advise any youngster to spend three years getting a degree in journalism because it remains one of the few professions for which no academic qualifications are needed. You can either do it or you can't. I'd be more inclined to advise would-be fashion journalists to read something useful like Law, specialising in copyright law, or something equally pactical as a fallback position for the day they realise that fashion magazine writing alone will never pay the rent. If nothing else, they'll be equipped to take defaulting publishers to court...

A "fashion editor", BTW, is usually a stylist with a masthead title rather than a journalist, whose title is more likely to be "features editor" or "fashion features editor". You don't need to be wealthy but you do need to be prepared to "moonlight" in order to bolster your meagre salary. Being well-connected is certainly helpful. All journalists need connections. Some budding journalists do get starts because they are well-connected. Some of them even rise to editorial positions. But they have to be very good to last.

OK, so I can think of some male and female editors whose oral skills got them where they are today but the flipside of that is a complete lack of respect from the professionals in the business. Generally, even if you bluff your way into journalism or leapfrog there because mummy's pal is editor of NOUVELLE VAGUE or HEMLINE, you'd better be able do the job because if you're useless, you won't last. If you're pretty, talented and fairly amoral, you will last as long as your looks last. ALT, BTW, is where he is and stays where he is because he is actually one of the best Fashion commentators. He wouldn't have hung around at the Studio had he not been talented. Warhol & Co did a lot of things but tokenism wasn't one of them.

PK

 

[prosperk]

You need a degree in this day and age to be any type of editor. Anna Wintour was born into publishing. Carine Roitfeld got lucky. Her partner was a designer and she made contacts through him. That's very rare though.

If you want to make it in this business, go to school, keep your head up and be optimistic.

I'm afraid that is simply not true. You do not need a degree to be an editor. There are plenty of editors who never made it to university. Carine Roitfeld certainly "got lucky" in that she was in the right place at the right time when they needed a replacement for Joan Juliet Buck. As a successful stylist and fashion editor in her own right, she was actually tipped for the Creative Director slot on French Vogue. I don't think anyone in the know would suggest that Carine Roitfeld made it to EiC of French Vogue on the back of her husband's contacts. Some might be more inclined to credit a mixture of Tom Ford's former influence in the business and the publisher's hope that appointing Ford's muse as EiC would bring in tons of Gucci Group advertising for Roitfeld's appointment. Roitfeld wasn't expected to survive Tom Ford's departure from the limelight but she has surprised her critics, reaffirming the unpredictability of this business. Why? Because she actually turned out to be a very effective Editor-in-Chief. I don't think she has a degree in journalism...

PK

 

[jf813]

I wouldn't advise any youngster to spend three years getting a degree in journalism because it remains one of the few professions for which no academic qualifications are needed. You can either do it or you can't. I'd be more inclined to advise would-be fashion journalists to read something useful like Law, specialising in copyright law, or something equally pactical as a fallback position for the day they realise that fashion magazine writing alone will never pay the rent. If nothing else, they'll be equipped to take defaulting publishers to court...

A "fashion editor", BTW, is usually a stylist with a masthead title rather than a journalist, whose title is more likely to be "features editor" or "fashion features editor". You don't need to be wealthy but you do need to be prepared to "moonlight" in order to bolster your meagre salary. Being well-connected is certainly helpful. All journalists need connections. Some budding journalists do get starts because they are well-connected. Some of them even rise to editorial positions. But they have to be very good to last.

OK, so I can think of some male and female editors whose oral skills got them where they are today but the flipside of that is a complete lack of respect from the professionals in the business. Generally, even if you bluff your way into journalism or leapfrog there because mummy's pal is editor of NOUVELLE VAGUE or HEMLINE, you'd better be able do the job because if you're useless, you won't last. If you're pretty, talented and fairly amoral, you will last as long as your looks last. ALT, BTW, is where he is and stays where he is because he is actually one of the best Fashion commentators. He wouldn't have hung around at the Studio had he not been talented. Warhol & Co did a lot of things but tokenism wasn't one of them.

PK

I have always wanted to edit and I was advised to go to school as well as get some exposure. I am studying Fashion Buying and Merchandising and I feel it has taught me a lot. Freelance defintely does not pay the rent but I know this and that's why I want to edit "in house".

I'm not really into the writing part so much. What I want to do is come up with the concepts behind fashion spreads and create a "vibe". I don't know if we are both talking about the same thing.

 

[PrinceOfCats]

To say 'a degree is not useful if you want to pursue x career', unless that career is plumbing etc, is always an oversimplified judgement. Education isn't essential for anything, other than a small number of professional occupations, but it can be useful for countless things...

 

[fourboltmain]

^ Exactly, getting a degree doesn't mean you're creative and/or qualified, it just means you did your homework.

 

[prosperk]

A degree in FB&M is clearly business-oriented and would obviously be useful from the viewpoint of the commercial aspect of storyboarding and directing fashion shoots. The people who perform this function at fashion magazines include the Editor-in-Chief and the Fashion Director, with input from the Creative Director and the Art Director. If there are enough fashion stories per issue to keep them all happy, all well and good. If not, then it's a dogfight/catfight situation. On top of that, some photographers behave like stylists and others impose their stylists. In the end, though, the EiC gets to decide what flies in his or her magazine. And then, just to add to the fun, if there's a hands-on publisher, they get to have their say too. If you want to conceive fashion stories, setting course to become a magazine fashion director may be the most logical option. This will involve styling, followed by regular work with good photographers, clients and titles if you're any good, plus some networking, identifying tomorrow's chief editors and other people who will be in positions to take you on-staff in a few years. Once on-staff as a deputy fashion editor or whatever title you're given, you can work towards your goal. Of course, it's not really about the magazines. It's about the money you can make from advertising contracts as a result of getting your styling work showcased in glossies. Some magazine stylists have built up impressive books in advertising before even going near magazines, which might be something you could consider, given the degree you're doing.

Anyway, good luck with it. Regarding talking about the same thing, it is all essentially the same thing where fashion glossies are concerned. Contacts are of course useful and there are talentless losers occupying good positions throughout the business but that isn't limited to Planet Fashion, is it? To be really successful and durable, you need to be good at what you do. The contacts might open the door for you but you need to give 110% all day, every day, for the rest of your career. If you can combine that drive with treating people decently and honestly, then you're on a winning curve. There aren't many who stay that course.

PK

 

[prosperk]

To say 'a degree is not useful if you want to pursue x career', unless that career is plumbing etc, is always an oversimplified judgement. Education isn't essential for anything, other than a small number of professional occupations, but it can be useful for countless things...

A degree in journalism is as useful as t*ts on a bull. A degree in Law, psychology or something similarly practical is very useful to anyone considering a career in any area of the arts, for want of a better way of putting it, as it provides a useful fallback position. Degrees do not have much to do with education unless they are Classics-based. A degree in journalism or media studies is not "education". It is almost as much of a scam as those ads you see in newspapers and on subway trains inviting people to become freelance writers. It really is a waste of three years. It's about as respected as a degree in sociology. But if you disagree, that's your prerogative. I'm simply expressing an opinion based on hard experience in the real world rather than what a bunch of failed hacks-turned-teachers tell starry-eyed teenagers...



PK

 

[prosperk]

^ Exactly, getting a degree doesn't mean you're creative and/or qualified, it just means you did your homework.

Precisely! An uncle of mine, who was the personnel director of several large UK firms and a couple of multi-nationals remarked that all a degree on someone's CV told him was that the firm stood a chance of holding onto the person in question for three years at the least. Where journalism and other commercial creative skills are concerned, degrees are really irrelevant. What the people who will commission or hire you want to see is evidence that you can actually do the job. A book (portfolio) of work, even if short, says more about you than a BA in journalism and media studies. In fact, I cannot think of a single editor I know who would give a job to someone who turned up to an interview waving a journalism diploma. I've said this before here. I probably even said it in this thread.

PK

 

[pinksatin]

i've read through this thread so thank you for so many valuable opinions and advices. I still have more questions though...

I am interested in the visual aspect of fashion publications. Like art director/creative editor/styling editorials and even just collaborating the overall look of the pages.

I have been in various undergrad majors from bio to fashion to dance but haven't stayed with one long enough to graduate yet. I just started a four year Visual Communications program at a a small but good (top 20) art school.

Will a degree in VC be of use or looked at by potential employers as a benefit? In my opinion it will because I will have a lot of knowledge of asthetics, art, sketching, design (not the fashion sort, just good design), as well as photoshop, inDesign, Illustrator, etc. by the time I graduate. But then my opinion doesn't matter as much as theirs. What do you think?

I am just afraid not studying fashion is a handicap but there are no good local programs and I have a scholarship which is why I'm staying local.

I also plan to break my neck trying to land internships in NYC during the summers and continue full-time school through the year at home until I graduate. Is this enough or should I take a different approach?

Also, I know a conde-nast or other publishing internship is best for my goals but will be harder to land. If I do showroom or PR internships is that going to be good enough to add to my CV as industry experience and connections building?

Oh, and there is absolutely nothing worthwhile locally for me to intern for. I looked into it. Indianapolis is the fashion capitol of hicksville so....

Anyway, thanks if anyone has feedback.

 

[pinksatin]

Oh also I just wanted to add my feelings on getting a degree. I realize this industry is more about your own talent and connections than your "credentials" (degree or whatever else) but I still think a degree in something is important. I feel like without it the ceiling for promotion is much lower. I mean especially if you aren't born into or married to the right social class. Plus higher education in general is just important no matter what you study. I've just been brought up believing that so I would be uncomfortable continuing to pursue a career without ever graduating from some college program.

 

[PrinceOfCats]

A degree in journalism is as useful as t*ts on a bull. A degree in Law, psychology or something similarly practical is very useful to anyone considering a career in any area of the arts, for want of a better way of putting it, as it provides a useful fallback position. Degrees do not have much to do with education unless they are Classics-based. A degree in journalism or media studies is not "education". It is almost as much of a scam as those ads you see in newspapers and on subway trains inviting people to become freelance writers. It really is a waste of three years. It's about as respected as a degree in sociology. But if you disagree, that's your prerogative. I'm simply expressing an opinion based on hard experience in the real world rather than what a bunch of failed hacks-turned-teachers tell starry-eyed teenagers...



PK

If you repeat trite Daily Telegraph half-truths, like a degree in sociology being worthless, it's fair to say your knowledge of higher education is incomplete, to put it generously. FYI, while journalism may not have much vocational value in the UK (which is not to say it doesn't have value to individuals), in the USA 54% of newspaper newsroom employees have undergraduate degrees in journalism and Columbia's graduate school of journalism has produced some of the the States' most celebrated journalists and Pulitzer prize winners. One look at Columbia's faculty, all of whom are journalists on national publications, puts paid to your conception of professors as 'failed hacks'. While the 46% who got into journalism without an expensive Ivy League education might take the other side of the debate, it's clearly far more complex that you make it out to be.

PS: Classics with a capital 'C' means the study of the ancient Mediterranean. Perhaps you need to brush up on your editing skills? I hear there are some very good courses...

 

[melt977]

Prince of Cats, before deciding on what to do for my Masters degree, I got the requirements for journalism at Columbia in NYC.... in order for them to accept me for an MA, they needed me to have been published in national press, or to be the author of a published novel.... what BA degree I had was actually made to be irrelevant by their requirements...

which goes to prove PK's point regarding journalism to be close to the truth....

I personally think that any kind of education is extremely valuable to anyone and everybody.... however, from my personal experience in the field, no matter how many degrees in journalism you get, all you actually need is talent, because writing is something that really cannot be taught... you can either do it or you can't and there is nothing you can be taught at uni to improve this.... it's one of those things that shows from the minute you can hold the pencil and write your name.

 

[softgrey]

i just have to add...
the title of 'Fashion Editor' requires NO ACTUAL WRITING...

 

[jf813]

i just have to add...
the title of 'Fashion Editor' requires NO ACTUAL WRITING...

 

[prosperk]

If you repeat trite Daily Telegraph half-truths, like a degree in sociology being worthless, it's fair to say your knowledge of higher education is incomplete, to put it generously.

Sorry if I touched a nerve...

FYI, while journalism may not have much vocational value in the UK (which is not to say it doesn't have value to individuals), in the USA 54% of newspaper newsroom employees have undergraduate degrees in journalism and Columbia's graduate school of journalism has produced some of the the States' most celebrated journalists and Pulitzer prize winners. One look at Columbia's faculty, all of whom are journalists on national publications, puts paid to your conception of professors as 'failed hacks'.

It depends upon the criteria one employs when defining excellence, doesn't it? The US media has not been favourably viewed as a whole for some years. This is unfortunate for all the good American journalists, some of whom have to resort to being published in foreign media to escape censorship or to publishing compilations of the op-eds, commentaries and polemics that never made it past the managing editor, the publisher or the owner.

The current quality of the US media is certainly open to debate but not in this thread and not, I think, on this website. The US has produced some fine journalists but I remain unconvinced that degrees in journalism are worth much per se.

While the 46% who got into journalism without an expensive Ivy League education might take the other side of the debate, it's clearly far more complex that you make it out to be.

I disagree. It's really as simple as my initial statement: journalism degrees are as useful as t*ts on a bull.

PS: Classics with a capital 'C' means the study of the ancient Mediterranean. Perhaps you need to brush up on your editing skills? I hear there are some very good courses...

Yes, I know. I think my point went over your head. But then, I went to King's and UCL. I didn't read journalism though. I read something even more useless in the real world.

PK