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Discussion in 'Fashion... In Depth' started by Astrid21, Sep 14, 2003.
Interesting article that I thought I'd share.
I dount co pleately agree with all of this, especially seeinga s theya re not really focuseing on the whole fashion world, mroe just new york, how ever tehre are alot of good points, fashion has been hermoginized(sp) cheap things can be in style people can copy the runway, people can make an image, but thats all it is image, pink can dress like a punk but is she? no. I dount think reall designers will ever fall pre to becomeing just anotehr label that makes trendy clothes.
Fashion just needs a revolution, but its coming have no fear
i hope so, Spacemiu!
well, it does seem like the spotlight is not really on fashion as much as it was few years
ago But it's only natural, considering recent events. and it's true that sometimes it seems like high school games of "i'm cooler than you, haha". even if you enjoyed this once, it becomes boring.
and i don't care what Anna Sui says, Coldpaly is NOT Michael Bolton!
love the line
but...unfortunately...it seems that perhaps everything has been invented, or used, or designed. Don't get me wrong, there will always be unique designs out there...but as far as freshness is concerned, perhaps fashion is hitting the curb at the moment.
what fashion needs now is really a break-through, something to complete and utterly twist things up, and bring a new light to wearing clothing and looking and feeling great. only time will tell...we won't give up on fashion quite yet.
so so true
there really has not been a big revolution in fashion sens punk, nothing has really created such a big change in thought, so I guess this is what we are wating for
its all beging recycled, its all beging copyed
also fashion is in much more casual state, wich is great dount get me wroung, im not at all a fancy dressing person, its just casual often times means boring and simple.
i had no time to read the NYarticle yet,
but i get a general idea from your replies.
fashion needs more fresh attitudes and less pretentiousness,
its only clothes fgs, all this fake importance is tyring
the public, and rightly so.
designers need to concentrate more on fresh ideas
and alternative ways of working on their ideas.
as a fashion designer- i find shows and seasonal
collections completly paleolithic (hope you get my point)
something that was cool at the 30's cannot possibly
excite us in 2003. Everything is evolving but the way
fashion sees-treats herself.
changing mood every six months
is such an ancient way of dealing with fashion and style
we change mood every single day and apart from
chain mass production stores,
fashion industy has not yet found a formula to accomodate
our love for the new.
recycling past styles and old stylistic stereotypes is not
helping fashion to make a point.
the public is tired stiff and luxury labels sale figures are
finally reflecting just that. People look out for the unique,
try discovering young designers, get tired with "big lux"
and of course, like spacemiu said,
Fashion just needs a revolution, but its coming have no fear
I didn't read it all .. but I'll say ...fashion is just different ..has evolved, like everything ... on the 90's we had the era of the supermodels ... we got some -still, though not quite the same- but you don't see papers/tv/radio yapping about the latest catwalk-goddess faux-pas ...
September 11 set a milestone .. it happened during NYC Fashion week after all ...
And about designers and ability to shock ... now the enfant-terribles do not operate as 90's I-want-my-renowned-label-designer-wannabes (hiring supermodels for their shows) ...
Overall ... I dont see fashion as "mainstream" right now ... cuz on the 90's everyone wore CK, but now more and more people's a bit more style-conscious and wear their fave designers opposite trendy ones ... So ... In a way it's OK ... the article has a point
Well, yes, after the luxury goods explosion of the past decade with its resulting to new mass elitism, finding something different off-the-peg has become more difficult. That's why I think new and up and coming designers should go back to making things more exclusive. Luxury used to be rare and special, but now there is too much of it.
Another reason is designers are way too much referencing to the past! Hello didn't Tom Ford's Fall '03 collection for YSL give you a 70's de ja vu? or Marc Jacobs homage to Cardin and Courreges?
Also most small designers are copying major desingers. Shouldn't they be the one who should have fresh new ideas?
Lastly as Spacemiu said 'Fashion needs a revolution, have no fear'! I hope so! I thought it was going to be Ghesquiere, but since he signed up with Tom Ford, et all I'm kinda gave up hope on him.
Yeah, the retro cherry-picking needs to go. Classic fashion is one thing, theme-yness is another.... Now that I think about it, yearly 'rediscovery' themes, I think, are stifling progression.
Thanks for the article Astrid
I didn't get to the end of it tho. Too many names on it ))) This article was about celebrities fashion.
Did you notice a word "cut", or "fabrics" in it?
thanks for the article astrid.
i don't think this is true at all. just when they think the have figured people out, they realize consumers have become innate marketers. thus 'cool hunting'. and that is why people are looking for clothing that is unique and individual, and they no longer wish to be dictated. they create their 'own' cool.
i can see where you are coming from, but only if you think along the lines of recycling ideas and creating endless hybrids. there is A LOT that hasn't been figured out. junya watanabe's collection's come to mind: a fusion of avant garde ideas and functionality -- very clever indeed. or issey miyake's textile innovations which looks cool because it is designed to function for ALL people every shape and size and class, ANDthey are allowed to customize their own clothing w/ this fabric. or his pleats please which is lightweight, washable, travel friendly - takes of little space, and comes in an assortment of patterns and colors. what about clothing that isn't too hot, or is designed to rip, unravel, basically deconstructs over time and through this process 'morphs' into another piece of clothing entirely so you could where it FOREVER. stuff like denim is super cool because it's functional -- it's gritty and real. innovative design is SUPER COOL and SUPER HARD.
and you can always look toward good ole rei kawakubo for 'coolness'...her guerilla store concept is the height of coolness.
oh, and they should present their collections in different ways besides the typical runway presentation. it's very much like a conveyer belt, but not in a good way.
adding to my thoughts...
what's cooler: a bike w/ all it's gears exposed in all it's aesthetically straight forward glory, or a plastic one made by philip stark that is claimed to be aerodynamic because it's got slick curves?
i think fashion which isn't an illusion is super cool, gone are the days of the corsets and tom ford. i guess the answer is deconstruction: a critique of aesthetics, exposing and desiging w/ raw edges, beat up lived in. but i think a pair of authentic carhartt's- water repellent 12-ounce, firm-hand, 100% ring-spun cotton duck w/ reinforced back pockets welding burned and oil stained and paint splattered aunthentically is cooler than overpriced designer paint splattered clothing which has been painstakingly deconstructed looking. would you actually go out in the woods, or do anything that would ruin the deconstructed clothing? i like the aesthetics of deconstuction and i can see the art and craft in it, and the act of preserving a finely made piece, and that's cool. but it's not cool to buy something overpriced when you can buy something cheaper that works just as well. resourcefulness is cool.
Spacemiu really took the words right out of my mouth, that all sounds like it applies to New York. New York has this tendancy, more so then Europe, to create these superstars literally overnight (Zac, Proenza and company) Europe, though it most certainly has it's designers of the moment, and those moments that transform a designer to a fashion leader, it seems that it's a bit of a slower process. Take Lanvin for instance, Elbaz has been designing there since 2002 I believe, but it really wasn't until f/w 03 that everybody took notice and he became fashions man of the moment. And going by the attitudes expressed by members here, there's much less resentment towards his success then there is towards someone like Posen.
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but this article, though very true in many ways, seems skewed towards the New York scene of barely flash-in-the-pan fame. I mean, Elbaz is going strong and his moment in the spotlight is lasting, how do you compare that to Androver, who was here and gone practically overnight.
But for what it's worth, even though it may seem like it, I don't think fashion has lost any of it's cool. It's just lurking in the shadows somewhere waiting for something really good to happen.
agree, a little. agree on the fact that yes, you can try to make the deconstructed look yourself - but try actually having the same cut and fit of the one a good designer makes - big issue. i'd say, next to impossible. deconstruction was much bigger in the 90's, I don't think it's a trend anymore. it's a realm of the very few, i think. but maybe we are thinking different deconstruction. when i hear deconstruction, i think margiela, but something is telling me you think more in terms of Rogan...
and, the days of ford himself maybe over, but unfortunately the days of what he introduced are in full swing.
what travolta said above hits a little on how i feel about this...
first of all, this article is obviously focusing on the scene in newyork -newyork has never been the most exciting city in the world for fashion no matter how much it would like to think it is. second, it is saying that because people aren't as interested in anna sui *laugh* and vuitton anymore that suddenly fashion isn't cool or exciting or revolutionary? HELLO! *THERES* your revolution!! like the article said, information comes at the touch of a fingertip, we boot up our computers and we middleclass folk get the same information as the highclass folk. we then interepret the information as we see fit- and the industry scrambles to accomodate it.
these people are so blind to think that because a house or brand doesnt have complete power over the thoughts of the consumer then fashion must be dying. the fashion revolution is coming from the bottom up- the streets- as it has been for some time now... for example i am amazed at some of the stuff i see people wearing here...
the fashionable japanese street style that a lot of people adore.... you may not notice from the pictures, but a lot of that stuff is worn very oddly. for example, blouses are wrapped around the waist and worn as skirts... skirts go around the shoulder and act as capelets, people rip sleeves off of other shirts and sew them on another blouse... a shirt doesnt really *need* 3 sleeves, but it doesn't matter. i sometimes take a sweater, turn it upside down, wrap the ends around my neck, button it, and tie the sleeves around my waist. a long sleeve cardigan is transformed into a sleeves sweater vest. martin margiela is so popular here it even surprised me a little... avante garde-or, *individulaity* of the *world* consumer(not just NY) is turning fashion around.
we also have new technology being integrated into fashion...therein lies our revolution... and i for one am very excited!
and yet i disagree... its going more from being just slight "deconstruction" ie a few rips and tears here and there...to full on just taking everything apart and making a whole new silhouette. just because someone like margielas idea are not new, doesnt mean it cant be reinterpreted to create a new aesthetic... people get so caught up in what is "old" and "new" i feel they fail to see what could be a new possibility bubbling underneath
yeah, i think the new york fashion scene always has been about the *business* ... maybe the city is miffed it hasnt created a ripple in the entire fashion world of late?
i think i should clarify myself.... this strange aesthetic doesnt belong to the designer anymore- its so mainstream that the only people who bat eyes at it are the tourists- big brands try to come out with limited edition items to keep consumers on their toes and a sense of exclusivity but when will people get sick of that?
aesthetics are derived from function -- alexander mcqueen's clothing is striking to the eye because he understands proportions and defying those conventions -- physics, and the properties of the material, and this makes him a good designer. his clothing is like a really tight, well built, aerodynamic car, very powerful.
i appreciate a good cut and fit, it's makes a better design. but i argue is a really good cut and fit worth more than clothing that is able to function in different ways, like say jeans you buy at some store? the process of taking care of it and the occasions you could wear it makes it have many more options for use, whose to say that isn't good design? i guess i am talking about different lifestyles and class systems, because what is appropriate and desirable at a posh dinner party is different for a construction worker. anyways, i think i might be confusing deconstruction w/ the overall unglamorized, ashy toned urban chic of rick owens, ann d. etc, who aren't really deconstruction in cut, but has retained the same feel of it. those clothes say 'bad ***'...and they are slick in a whole other way. maybe i think that 'look' is bigger than it is, i base this off people's tastes in the fashion spot, so i guess it isn't very accurate. a mainstream example of deconstruction is the high/ lo look that is more about deconstructing genres of dress and trying to subvert it, and you could say these people think themselves cool.
but what would 'this' be? what is the criteria for cool? what are we lacking today?
I guess i'm saying referencing can be shallow, and cheap design. designing a really well built piece of clothing will always been in vogue, but not many designers are trying to do that, they are making collages of their favorite designers w/ a dash of personal nostalgia. nothing truely innovative, and not even close to creating functional clothing. that is why those japanese designers are still cool because it was based on realism. and this aesthetic has trickled down and influenced many. i guess my criteria for cool would be the principles of zen aesthetics, a design that is meant to wear and break down over time, 'flaw's are seen as beautiful and are exposed, an almost crude or rustic sensibility. but that's just me.
that's cool, wearing something how you feel like it, not because you are taught sweaters are worn right side out. it's ok if it's a little uneven, its 'good design' to cut up your sweater and turn it into a tank top if you're tired of it.