Jennifer Lopez F/W 05.06 New York

[Nemova]

Well said, brian, well said. Some of us have been insisting on this particular aspect of the situation but some people simply don't understand. There are crappy designers out there as there are crappy musicians or actors but we know they've worked their way to a fashion week. JLo hardly worked it to Hollywood. Let alone NY fashion week.

 

[Assembler]

Re: Death of fashion

I agree with this death of fashion thing. Like what that article that Atelier posted. Is fashion going to go the way of Magazine covers? Being more about celebrity, than good design. It's like people making movies solely based on books. Not that some books don't deserve to be made into movies, but a lot of the books chosen are chosen for their popularity because then the audience is already built in. For example, if the DaVinci Code wasn't as popular, do you think they'd be making it into a movie right now? With the big names? And "I, Robot" bothered me so much because the movie had SO little to do with the book. Why not just call it something else rather than try to coax people to come suggesting that it is the film version of Isaac Asimov's book, and then dissappoint them.

Movies made on books are fine, like Cider House Rules... but because it wasn't made solely for its popularity, they couldn't pull in the big of big names to do it. And it came out genuine, and without the egos.

I don't know. That's what this feels like. This line hasn't had to work for its success, the audience was already there for it. She closes fashion week her first time there! Paying your dues is a part of the business, it forces you to be creative, different, on top of things, etc. She'll never have to go through that because people don't expect much from her in the first place so they're less likely to be critical (the media anyway), she gets attention because of her celebrity status not her design, and she starts out on top. How is that going to encourage her to get better?

If all fashion starts going this way, and fashion week becomes like magazines, with primarily celebrities showing their fashion, and celebrities in the front seats, and everyone cooing about each other, and making it theatrical in a gaudy (rather than Gaudi) way rather than stylish way.... Yes, that could herald the death of fashion. Where it's less about the clothes, and more about the person. And although fashion houses sometimes get lazy and let the status of their label hold them up, they get called on it, because people aren't as emotionally attached to labels as they are to living, breathing, gossip prone people. Although I've heard of Dior, and Chanel etc, I don't have a clue about the people behind them, so the clothes have to stand up for themselves.

I say if a celebrity really wants to get into fashion, they should do so the hardway. Contribute some designs for an established house, for example. Earn your way. Someone posted that people are being harder on this stuff because it's JLo. I bet if this was a new person, having the show she did, those clothes, with all the fanfare, her first time in NY Fashion week... there'd be a heck of a lot more criticism. The fashion press expects much less from a untrained celebrity than from a trained new comer, and therefore will go much lighter on it.

Yes she's a business woman, and it's a busines... But the more a "business" it is, the less art, the less style, the less FASHION it is.

 

[Nemova]

*stand-up ovation* You are ABSOLUTELY right on that, Assembler. And the Gaudi reference.

 

[Kimkhuu]

Great point there Assembler!

 

[jenn]

I didn't see anything that I thought was original or inspiring. Minus the headgear, it reminded me of the mannequins in the window at your local retail Guess store

Perhaps she will get better with time... maybe after a few classes or something

 

[kimair]

This line hasn't had to work for its success, the audience was already there for it. She closes fashion week her first time there! Paying your dues is a part of the business, it forces you to be creative, different, on top of things, etc. She'll never have to go through that because people don't expect much from her in the first place so they're less likely to be critical (the media anyway), she gets attention because of her celebrity status not her design, and she starts out on top. How is that going to encourage her to get better?

I say if a celebrity really wants to get into fashion, they should do so the hardway. Contribute some designs for an established house, for example. Earn your way. Someone posted that people are being harder on this stuff because it's JLo. I bet if this was a new person, having the show she did, those clothes, with all the fanfare, her first time in NY Fashion week... there'd be a heck of a lot more criticism. The fashion press expects much less from a untrained celebrity than from a trained new comer, and therefore will go much lighter on it.

Yes she's a business woman, and it's a busines... But the more a "business" it is, the less art, the less style, the less FASHION it is.

i agree and disagree with this...i think because she's not a designer that fashion writers, buyers, etc. are more critical of her. the articles i've read by people like cathy horyn, teri agins, etc. have been very keen on the idea that she is not a designer and this collection is not going to look like it was done by a designer. they all knew the production quality of the show was going to be high, but that does not disguise crappy clothes. yes, she does get attention because of her status, but look at zac posen or proenza schouler. they get the same type of media attention because someone (another celeb, a socialite or a fashion editor) plucked them out of obscurity and said, "we're going to give you a chance." how many other designers presented a first show with proenza schouler...and how many of them were featured in an ed in vogue? i think the heavy hitters in the industry are going to look at this collection up close and then decide if it's right for their stores. and if it doesn't sell, it wil go away.

i will say this ...she has worked very hard to get where she is today, as has gwen stefani, eve, beyonce, and others. they started out paying their dues in their respective industries, singing in talent shows or small clubs, being a backup dancer, etc. they earned their following of fans. they are the ones who turned the celebrities into something everyone follows, we want to know who they are wearing, where they live, who they are dating. they are just "cashing in" on that, in a way. she's paying her dues by being in the public eye...more so than a designer. people are looking at her every day wondering what she's wearing, who is it by, talking sh*t if it isn't cool...she is forced to reinvent herself, keep creating/formulating her look, which in turn ends up in her collection.

so far as her closing fashion week, who knows why she was given that slot...i'm not really sure how slots are decided. but i do know the more established designers get the choice every season. marc jacobs shows at the same time every season, as does donna, ralph, calvin, and narciso. she may have had to settle for what was left, and to make sure all the editors, etc. were there, taken a slot that no other designer occupied.

as an aside...i know of some celebs that have collaborated with designers on a specific look (nicole kidman's dress for the CFDA awards last year I think--a tom ford designed dress; debra messing & isaac mizrahi, hilary swank & calvin klein for the sags) who don't have fashion lines, so that is definitely an option. there's also the case of gwen stefani, who inspired (in a way) galliano's rasta dior collection a few seasons back.

 

[Assembler]

I don't doubt that she paid her dues in a different way. Just not neccesarily to fashion. And this is just how fashion changes. The DUES system will be based on your notoriety rather than your talent (or based on your talent in other venues).

I don't have anything really against celebrities going into fashion. But it's like if Serena Williams wanted to start playing hockey, and got on the women's national team without anyone actually seeing her skate. Maybe she could be a fantastic hockey player, with time, but it's still jumping the que because she's well known. Not that that would ever happen (um... didn't some basketball player give baseball a go without really having to prove their skill? )

Anyway. If people are fine with it.... well, no it still sucks. I don't want to have to look at a show and think "well, at least it's not as BAD as I thought it would be". Everything is so "business" now. Music is so commercial, magazines for the most part are so commercial, now fashion shows are commercial. I don't mean commercial as in a lot of people like them/will buy them. I mean that its MORE about the bottom line than about the design, or the art. It's about making something that people are already going to like, rather than making something and taking what comes. If that makes sense.

Like someone's "signature" here says. It doesn't take money to have fashion, it takes understanding. That's what I fear we're going to lose. The understanding.

EDIT: People are wondering what she's wearing and who it's by, NOT because it looks good, but because SHE's wearing it, and they want to imitate. Is THAT what fashion should be about?

 

[Nemova]

Another great post, Assembler. You're right, everything is too commercial nowadays in the sense of not having any kind of true effort in terms of art or significance to reach genuine empathy. I wonder if the punk scene or the surrealists first appeared these days anyone would really care.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Assembler i like your views a lot... I bow to you.

 

[CharlottefromCA]

I just wanted to chime in and say this is a great debate.. interesting read

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

btw, this fashion show is getting more publicity than Britney Spears, MTV is airing something for it..

it's pathetic.

 

[Assembler]

Gee. Thanks.

 

[LostInNJ]

btw, this fashion show is getting more publicity than Britney Spears, MTV is airing something for it..

it's pathetic.

Part of me is looking foward to it, even though it is kind of over-rated, it is pretty exciting. I would like to see the behind the scenes footage. I live for that stuff.

 

[brian]

I would like to see the behind the scenes footage. I live for that stuff.

i wish i could've been backstage.
they would've gotten some great footage of me vomiting on the $2m jeans.

 

[Assembler]

^^ I like that stuff too (OOOOOPS, I was late in posting. Not the vomitting on the jeans part, but the behind the scenes part. HAHA) That's why I like America's Next Top Model (for the fashion shoots... which have taken a turn for the worse over the last year). And I think that will be a draw for a lot of people who like fashion. If MTV had done a behind the scenes for any other designer, it would be fun to see too. So I'm not letting myself feel TOO hypocritical (sp?) about wanting to see that . Ah well. I've been following project runway to get that same insight (though it's a fabricated insight), and I do watch the Fashion TV episodes they show on City to get that feel as well. Maybe someone can post about it when it shows (I don't get MTV). I hope it really DOES focus on the production of a fashion line and not a "year in the life of La Lopez" thing.

 

[CharlottefromCA]

Hahaha, I'm looking forward to the MTV special too.. in the commercial there's a scene with her saying something along the lines of.. "if its not good.. we're not going to do it.".. should be interesting ..

lol.. I'm also looking forward to America's Next Top Model Cycle 4.. premiering in March and the what are they doing now special with the girls from cycle 3.. I love everything I can get.. even if it is just reality TV

 

[kimair]

I don't doubt that she paid her dues in a different way. Just not neccesarily to fashion. And this is just how fashion changes. The DUES system will be based on your notoriety rather than your talent (or based on your talent in other venues).

I don't have anything really against celebrities going into fashion. But it's like if Serena Williams wanted to start playing hockey, and got on the women's national team without anyone actually seeing her skate. Maybe she could be a fantastic hockey player, with time, but it's still jumping the que because she's well known. Not that that would ever happen (um... didn't some basketball player give baseball a go without really having to prove their skill? )

Anyway. If people are fine with it.... well, no it still sucks. I don't want to have to look at a show and think "well, at least it's not as BAD as I thought it would be". Everything is so "business" now. Music is so commercial, magazines for the most part are so commercial, now fashion shows are commercial. I don't mean commercial as in a lot of people like them/will buy them. I mean that its MORE about the bottom line than about the design, or the art. It's about making something that people are already going to like, rather than making something and taking what comes. If that makes sense.

Like someone's "signature" here says. It doesn't take money to have fashion, it takes understanding. That's what I fear we're going to lose. The understanding.

EDIT: People are wondering what she's wearing and who it's by, NOT because it looks good, but because SHE's wearing it, and they want to imitate. Is THAT what fashion should be about?

i'm not really fine with it...i do think the idea sucks...but there are people in other industries that are "branching out" into other things. tom ford wants to direct movies, so every industry head is falling over themselves to get in touch with him. why? because he's tom ford, not because he's ever directed anything before (except a runway show)...actors directing movies, or basketball players rapping...

no fashion should not be about imitation, but tell that to marc jacobs, heatherette, etc. other designers out there who made their money on reinterpreting things from the past. I think certain celebrities have an understanding and an appreciation for fashion...i don't think jennifer lopez is one of them, but she is getting more involved with her own line, instead of letting other people make decisions. i think she wants to gain an understanding of fashion. many very successful designers never even went to school...

------------

from what i read about the mtv special, it's only about the fashion show and collection...

 

[modelmama]

they would.

it's not fair to the REAL DESIGNERS WITH ACTUAL TALENT of the world that some stupid celebrity who thinks that since they're famous and have a legion of fans they're automatically entitled to go out and become a "designer," hiring top models for their shows, turning the entire thing into a huge spectacle with tons of celebrities and press in the audience, receiving praise and critical acclaim when there are some TRUE talents out there who are struggling and often times can't even afford to hold a simple presentation during fashion week, let alone a multi-million-dollar-celeb-studded extravaganza.

Life is filled with opportunities- sometimes they fall right onto your lap- while sometimes you must work very very very hard for it.

GenArt gives opportunities to talented Designer (and many other companies as well- who's names have just escaped me)

Should we fault JLO for her "opportunity". Before she was JLO she hustled as a fly girl and danced in music videos. She has made this opportunity for herself.

Personaly, I dont think she's much of singer. I have yet to see anything of hers- as a designer that I would want to add into my closet. Her acting ability ...........well , you get the idea. I am not a fan in that regard. However, I am a fan of anyone that can make something out of nothing- we are not forced to buy into her ideas- but it is an option for those that are into -her sort of things.

Unfortunatly, life can be so bloody unfair. If I had the oppurtunity I would become.....President of the world!!!!! With cash I could buy an election and have everyone at my feet!!

 

[Luna]

It's all summed up in this lovely ensemble!!

Speedy Conzales meets a ruffle overdose!
http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40316&stc=1&thumb=1

 

[HollabackGirl]

In your dreams.

Whatever