Jude and Salma

[sofia laetitia]

^^^^^

sorry, i don't agree with you, especially when it comes to men.

a woman may cheat out of disappointed expectations, revenge, and other reasons related to her mental relationship with the man she's with, but i think a man generally cheats out of his instinct. of course thre's likely to be a subconscious side to that too (the need to feel young, active, powerful, etc.), but i think that it's something much more based on him and his hormons than on whether the woman he's with fulfills his expectations or not.

let's face it: that's the major, big difference between men and women, the importance attached to sex.

 

[*nookie]

You have your PhD in psychology? Or has it happened to you?

If he loved her, if he thought she was wonderful he wouldn't have cheated on her. She obviously wasn't fulfilling his expectations. Cheating follows the same lines as basic expectancy theory where a person’s motivation is determined by the outcome that the person expects. He wanted something out of the nanny that he wasn't getting from Sienna. It could be anything.

Any other excuse given by cheaters is complete rubbish.

I agree with Celine. Not saying that when I guy cheats it is his partner's fault, just that he obviously was not in love with her. If he had been there is no way he would have cheated. If you are in love with someone you would not even look at someone else in that way let alone bed them.
For that matter, I don't really think Sienna was in love with Jude, more the idea of him, what his name meant and what being attached to him would bring to her.

 

[sofia laetitia]

^^^^

well, i don't know the relationship between sienna and jude, neither i care. they're celebrities, so i think that makes a slight difference: their life exules from normality.

but i know lots of "normal" men who, although in love with their women, did cheat or could cheat on them, just because they have so many falling at their feet, and they enjoy that. it's sad, i know, but i don't think that love comes much into play when a man cheats.

 

[liberty33r1b]

this whole thing is just tooo boring for me....

 

[giSpot]

I don't think cheating can be explained in a single post. There are hundreds of reasons why a person may cheat! Cheating is pure selfishness, however you explain it. It is possible for a "usually unselfish" person to become selfish for a time (due to emotions and situations that may arise as well as being hurt) and then return to being unselfish after they have realised the consequences of their actions.

I don't think it means that a person is not in love with their partner if they cheat. Sometimes you "feel" in love and sometimes not, but those feelings are more constant when you are truly in love. No relationship is a bundle of joy 100% of the time - celeb or no celeb.

 

[CelineChic]

^^^^^

sorry, i don't agree with you, especially when it comes to men.

a woman may cheat out of disappointed expectations, revenge, and other reasons related to her mental relationship with the man she's with, but i think a man generally cheats out of his instinct. of course thre's likely to be a subconscious side to that too (the need to feel young, active, powerful, etc.), but i think that it's something much more based on him and his hormons than on whether the woman he's with fulfills his expectations or not.

let's face it: that's the major, big difference between men and women, the importance attached to sex.

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with you because you're basically generalizing and saying that all men are cheaters because they all have the instinct to cheat.

 

[sofia laetitia]

^^^
no, i'm not saying that all men are cheaters. i'm saying that all of them, with a few exceptions, are POTENTIAL cheaters. this means that it's very easy for them to feel attracted by women other than the one they're in love/have a relationship with. to actually act on it, that depends on a combination of circumnstances, i guess.

it sounds harsh, i know,but this is how i feel on the matter, based on my personal experience, analysis, a great deal of discussion with all kind of men (and women), and lots and lots of thinking.

if you have a chance read 'casanova in bolzano' by sandor marai. i wish you to keep disagreeing with me, but at least you could kind of understand what i mean. besides, it's an excellent book, i recommend it to everybody!

 

[CelineChic]

^^^
no, i'm not saying that all men are cheaters. i'm saying that all of them, with a few exceptions, are POTENTIAL cheaters. this means that it's very easy for them to feel attracted by women other than the one they're in love/have a relationship with. to actually act on it, that depends on a combination of circumnstances, i guess.

it sounds harsh, i know,but this is how i feel on the matter, based on my personal experience, analysis, a great deal of discussion with all kind of men (and women), and lots and lots of thinking.

if you have a chance read 'casanova in bolzano' by sandor marai. i wish you to keep disagreeing with me, but at least you could kind of understand what i mean. besides, it's an excellent book, i recommend it to everybody!

Casanova in bolzano is a fictitious novel. I would hardly take its message or theme over a scientifically researched entry in a psychology journal. Also, it is doubtful that the number of people you spoke with is even representative to the remainder of the world’s male population. Before you said it was men’s instincts and now you’re saying that it’s because a fictitious novel and your group of friends say it is.

 

[sofia laetitia]

i think we could continue to argue about this forever...i'll just give up. by the way, it may surprise you how much truth there can be in a fictitious novel. my job is to write "scientifically researched entries", and i wish i could understand (and express) things half as good as some novelists do...

 

[PrinceOfCats]

no, i'm not saying that all men are cheaters. i'm saying that all of them, with a few exceptions, are POTENTIAL cheaters. this means that it's very easy for them to feel attracted by women other than the one they're in love/have a relationship with. to actually act on it, that depends on a combination of circumnstances, i guess.

So what you're in fact saying is that you would like to make sexist generalisations based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence. Nice.

 

[CelineChic]

my job is to write "scientifically researched entries", and i wish i could understand (and express) things half as good as some novelists do...

No offence, but it doesn't seem like you do. If you did you would most likely know that evidence must be representative, precise, sufficient, relevant and above all accurate. You haven't fulfilled any of those requirements with your generalization on men who have "the instinct to cheat".

If you’re job was to research and write scientific entries in journals I would assume that you'd know the basics for providing good evidence… After all, most of us learned that in school.

Not only is your generalization offensive to men but is also offensive to any women who have a husband, father, or boyfriend.

 

[sofia laetitia]

god! that's harsh...

i'll just leave it like that. useless to comment. but you should be careful before daring making comments on someone's career you know nothing about. trust me.

 

[sofia laetitia]

So what you're in fact saying is that you would like to make sexist generalisations based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence. Nice.

just to reply to you, i'm sorry i sounded patronizingly sexist, but this is how i feel (quite strongly) on the subject, maybe just because i'm more cynical and older than you...well, not sure older than 86...but still.

the funny thing is that my life must appear to you (certainly it does to celine_chic) quite the opposite of what it is: i love men, and not just sexually, but also intellectually and emotionally. and i'm very lucky, because both my dad and my "boyfriend" are extremely faithful and devoted men.

i'm not trying to judge men, i'm only expressing an opinion (surely generalized, as most opinions that include more than one individual always are) on "men's sexual nature".

and to be honest with you, i find that somehow more natural, and therefore healthier (at least physically), than lots of women's attitute to the matter.

 

[PrinceOfCats]

just to reply to you, i'm sorry i sounded patronizingly sexist, but this is how i feel (quite strongly) on the subject, maybe just because i'm more cynical and older than you...well, not sure older than 86...but still.

Don't flatter yourself. I do not feel patronised by someone who feels the need to write the word 'boyfriend' in inverted commas to show how mature they are. You did not sound patronisingly sexist. You were offensively sexist. I will assume because you are a sexist, chauvinist person.

Racism, sexism and other kinds of prejudice are not tolerated on these forums as far as I know.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

Ok I have just seen this thread and sorry to bring it back up again but I think that everybody is trying as hard as possible to misunderstand sofia laeticia.

Someone was saying, "God if Sienna was as interesting as she was pretty, he wouldn't have cheated". First of all that is an absurd argument. If somebody doesn't live up to your expectations, you do not cheat, you leave. You don't want to be monogamous? Well don't be... but be honest about it. The fact Jude cheated IS his fault but it was being pointed out that there are evolutionary reasons for why men cheat too. We can't be purely namby-pamby-neo-platonic-love-poetry about it. You have to look at the science as well. Is is just as some studies say that women settle down with the man who will look after her children but she may cheat with the stud-o-rama of the village so that her children have his genes. At the end of the day, arguments like this don't matter because in our relationship with the individuals in our life, we don't take scientific studies into account because individuals are ...well individual. However, saying that scientific and anthropological studies are useless because they don't apply to the individual is misunderstanding the very purpose of the studies.

Anyway last of all, let's not scare away the newbies. I think some of you were plain rude and were making direct attacks on the person when no direct attacks were made on you - and that is one thing I know for SURE is not appreciated on TFS.

 

[iluvjeisa]

just to reply to you, i'm sorry i sounded patronizingly sexist, but this is how i feel (quite strongly) on the subject, maybe just because i'm more cynical and older than you...well, not sure older than 86...but still.

the funny thing is that my life must appear to you (certainly it does to celine_chic) quite the opposite of what it is: i love men, and not just sexually, but also intellectually and emotionally. and i'm very lucky, because both my dad and my "boyfriend" are extremely faithful and devoted men.

i'm not trying to judge men, i'm only expressing an opinion (surely generalized, as most opinions that include more than one individual always are) on "men's sexual nature".

and to be honest with you, i find that somehow more natural, and therefore healthier (at least physically), than lots of women's attitute to the matter.

I agree with you to a large extent - but I have to add that women are quite susceptible to very charming and attractive men who know they way around. Women cheat too - and quite often - in particular if they don't get attention from their mate.

 

[iluvjeisa]

I agree with Celine. Not saying that when I guy cheats it is his partner's fault, just that he obviously was not in love with her. If he had been there is no way he would have cheated. If you are in love with someone you would not even look at someone else in that way let alone bed them.
For that matter, I don't really think Sienna was in love with Jude, more the idea of him, what his name meant and what being attached to him would bring to her.

Oh, there are people who are completely in love with a person and still cheat. The Casanovas, baby....

I'll quote from the great source of knowledge about the mentality of the all-too-attractive Casanovas:

"She was hot - on a cold and rainy night
And she was hot - and I had the blues
She was hot - and honey, where were you?
If you were in my shoes
You would be excused
She was hot - you can never wait
She was hot - never hesitate
She was hot - on a cold and rainy night"

"She was hot" Rolling Stones undercover 1983 (I presume Mick was explaining himself to Jerry Hall or something )

I don't know squat about Sienna or Jude, but it seems to me they are both charming sexual opportunists.

 

[VainJane]

What's 'puce'?

 

[happycanadian]

WOW.

some of y'all can be really extremely harsh.

anyway, i'm not getting in to that, i just wanted to say that i would personally LOOOOOOOOOOOVE to be in the middle of that threesome - Jude, Salma & Sienna???? WHOOOOWEEEE LAWD!!!! that would be a fun fun fun fun fun time.

 

[Teratel]

cheating is normal if you are an animal (instinct)
cheating is normal when you are insecure, it's only the human nature!
(league)"don't you want me baby, don't you want me ooooooh!