Julian Roberts Productions (Nothing Nothing etc)

[Zazie]

Julian is right. You might even want to start your own thread but probably in another section of tfs. Your pieces are very nice, very desirable. I've always loved accessories pieces that can be worn many ways. If you ever put these into production, remember to include instructions. I bought a strange piece from Yohji Y at a sale, and to this day, I still haven't figured out how to wear it.

Like ff said, the stripes are a good idea to heighten the sense of structure in your pieces. One idea that I've always loved, but because I'm not a fashion desiogner and am morbidly afraid of sewing I can't ever realize, is to have something like what you did and have it two-sided, eg. wool on one side and satin on the reverse, or cotton/leather, and if it is really cold, two layers of wool, etc... You add one more way of wearing the garment (inside out/outside-in), and in the twisting and turning of the structure, you get a glimpse of the other which functions like your stripe patterns in showing up the structure. The possibilities can be extended, eg., if you make the "lining" partly detachable and which the wearer can twist and turn to add another layered dimension. If you ever make one these, please.... let me buy a piece from you!

Good luck to you and do pursue your designs. It's headed in the right direction in the thinking.

 

[hjsxx22]

Its funny you should mention Yohji Y as I have been looking at his work as inspiration.



I have actually started to think about making the pieces reversible and also twisting them so that both sides are visible. I really like your idea of putting different material or design on the reverse side and this is something I hope to pursue with my next designs.

Thank you for your positive response it has been really helpful.

Thanks Helen x

 

[fab_fifties_fille]

Hi and welcome hjsxx22, I'm no expert but I really like how they look and the concept behind the garments...I echo final fashions sentiment how the stripes give an idea of the structure, especially on a dark fabric, it can be hard to decipher the draping and structural element. I adore the idea of one item being worn in different ways...so fresh in this disposable society.

 

[i_<3_chanel]

mmm interesting thread !
just discovered it . . . a lot to take in . . intense ?
it's lovely to have a real presence frm someone behind the concepts & ideas
* i liked yr point tht 'anyone can be a designer' . . . it's a nice thought . .
will collect my thoughts & reply properly later !
;]

hjsxx22 i like it . . .
also echo wht zazie said abt playing arnd w/layers . .

 

[*sayan]

late discovery of a weird thread, hope julian is still around, because i dont get anything of what's happenning , exept in softgrey's head.

I dont mean any disresspect, really i dont to anybody of the spot, nor to julian.

I dont see it. There are a couple of interesting pattern twists, but how could it all become such a big theory. Softgrey said it, CdG and Yohji did everything here. And the thing is, making it was never an acomplishment.never. Its just experimenting. Rei is Rei because her designs are transcendental, it's all about how she feels the balance of the pleats, the balance of the volumes, the angles , the curves. The experimental technique was never something relevant, its the result that matters. Sometimes she(her patternmakers) make an experiment, and she reworks it visually for days, weeks before she nails something. That's CdG. And same fo Yohji, and many many more. Technique is nothing in the face of communicating a vibe through visuals.

And also, I don't see how making a dress in 30 minutes is good. The result i saw here was not appealing. It had absolutely zero movement( the fabric was twisting around the body, but the garment wasnt moving in any way, let alone a beautiful way, when the person was moving). Some parts of the result were interesting, and thats why u have to make this pattern out of paper, and redo it, and again and again and again, and use handstitching, and finesse, and LOVE. And then one has something(maybe).

The first pages of the thread were interesting because they expressed one truth in any creative form. There are no rules. But after that i find it a bit disrespectful towards..erm...everybody? (Not using any techniques that took LIVES to build, not giving credit to CdG , Yohji and all the avant guarde creators..do you really mean it when you say, all these things are(were) easy to make or are you ill-informed?..and honestly, how easy is it for you to come years later and pull out theyr experiments...)

 

[Zazie]

late discovery of a weird thread, hope julian is still around, because i dont get anything of what's happenning , exept in softgrey's head.

I dont mean any disresspect, really i dont to anybody of the spot, nor to julian.

I dont see it. There are a couple of interesting pattern twists, but how could it all become such a big theory. Softgrey said it, CdG and Yohji did everything here. And the thing is, making it was never an acomplishment.never. Its just experimenting. Rei is Rei because her designs are transcendental, it's all about how she feels the balance of the pleats, the balance of the volumes, the angles , the curves. The experimental technique was never something relevant, its the result that matters. Sometimes she(her patternmakers) make an experiment, and she reworks it visually for days, weeks before she nails something. That's CdG. And same fo Yohji, and many many more. Technique is nothing in the face of communicating a vibe through visuals.

And also, I don't see how making a dress in 30 minutes is good. The result i saw here was not appealing. It had absolutely zero movement( the fabric was twisting around the body, but the garment wasnt moving in any way, let alone a beautiful way, when the person was moving). Some parts of the result were interesting, and thats why u have to make this pattern out of paper, and redo it, and again and again and again, and use handstitching, and finesse, and LOVE. And then one has something(maybe).

The first pages of the thread were interesting because they expressed one truth in any creative form. There are no rules. But after that i find it a bit disrespectful towards..erm...everybody? (Not using any techniques that took LIVES to build, not giving credit to CdG , Yohji and all the avant guarde creators..do you really mean it when you say, all these things are(were) easy to make or are you ill-informed?..and honestly, how easy is it for you to come years later and pull out theyr experiments...)

A few points:

Clothes aren't *all* about movement. There are clothes that are about shapes and forms, eg. a cocoon/shell, kimonos, clothes that are about materials and prints, eg. heavy brocades, ceremonial clothes, etc.

I don't see any similarity between CdG, YY and Nothing Nothing at all. I don't see "their experiments" "pulled out and used years later". Unless you can examine and compare all their garments, and point out the copying, you cannot accuse someone of plagiarism.

How can you say that just because a dress was cut in 30 minutes, it isn't done out of "love"? Is "love" = amount of time and work spent on a garment? There are artists, photographers whose works are done spontaneously, in-situ, instantaneously, does it mean they didn't put "love" into their works? Although the dress was cut and sewn in 30 minutes, there was a long and laborious process of experimenting with the concept to arrive at the results - a method of sewing. Eg. A chef can experiment for weeks before he perfects a dish, which he can whip up in 10 minutes in front of an audience. The intention of the 30-minutes dress is to disclose the designer's method to the audience, instead of sending finished products down the runway.

Besides, there were other NN collections that weren't about quick cutting and sewing. I think we are first and foremost fascinated by NN because of the beautiful results we see. Of course this is subjective, not everyone will love it. For me, it becomes even more fascinating when Julian revealed *one* (this is important because this is not all) of his methods - I've never seen another designer doing it without patterns or mannequin-fitting, but going about it in 3-D thinking. If CdG or YY do, that's great, but they haven't explained this in a public exhibition. Maybe softgrey and you do not find it as fascinating, and probably a whole legion of skeptics out there, but obviously, it hits a chord with some of us. It also boils down to a freer way of thinking about fashion, i.e. to quote your post, not using any techniques that took LIVES to build. Why should he? What's wrong in inventing something new? Fashion should be free for experimentation, or we'll just recycle looks, "Edwardian", "Dracula", "Prince of Wales", "James Bond" and there should be room for everyone, even those with unorthodox thinking and approaches.

 

[Zazie]

Its funny you should mention Yohji Y as I have been looking at his work as inspiration.

View attachment 157650

I have actually started to think about making the pieces reversible and also twisting them so that both sides are visible. I really like your idea of putting different material or design on the reverse side and this is something I hope to pursue with my next designs.

Thank you for your positive response it has been really helpful.

Thanks Helen x

You're most welcome, and best of luck. You already have a lot of positive feedback from some of the respected tfsers, 1<3 Chanel, finalfashion, fabff, wow.

The Yohji piece I have is white silk, and it just falls off no matter how I try to "wear" it.

 

[rui]

You're most welcome, and best of luck. You already have a lot of positive feedback from some of the respected tfsers, 1<3 Chanel, finalfashion, fabff, wow.

The Yohji piece I have is white silk, and it just falls off no matter how I try to "wear" it.

when did you get it? maybe i can help you?

 

[*sayan]

hey zazie

about some points you mentioned,

-Clothes are not ALL about movement, but in the video, the dress he was cutting was compared to Avant-Guarde designers, well whenever i saw a CdG or other real avant guarde designs of that type, it had mkovement, it had something, not just a randomly placed pile of pleats and folds.

-The similarity between CdG and Yoji is not necesseraly the final design, its not plagiarism at all, It's just that i feel he's teaching these techniques that were pioneered by these people ears ago, without even mentioning them. Before CdG and Yojhi came to paris, nobody was free cutting. They brought this freedom to pattern cutting.

-I didnt say that making a dress in 30 min is not made of love, when i said love int that part of my post it was to underline what goes into redoing a dress 20 times to nail the right proportions. The cook does a great meal in a couple of minutes, but he uses a very precise recipy.(therefore we should be using a very precise pattern after having worked on it). Rei K. spends days moving pieces one millimeter at a time until she gets what she wants, she couldnt show that to teh audience could she.

-Yes of course the result of NN may or may not be beautiful to different people, to me it wasn't, but that wasn't really my main point. it's really the fact that free cutting, is known things, maybe im too deep in the field to see objectively, but i feel it's quite basic, and it's just one aspect, one needs to mix free cutting, with tailoring, with draping(draping takes a lot of time). Actually the way i think clothes should be designed should be all at once, little pattern, little free cutting, then jump to the sewing machine, go on the doll, a little draping, pinning, back on the pattern table, back to the doll, back to sewign machine, and you travel into your work.

- It is very nice that his work opened up ur mind on some aspects of fashion, i really mean it. It's quite important to eduquate the people in order for them to understand the work. Maybe CdG and others a too misterious for the non-insider.

-To me discarding all tradition is wrong, it's just me. I feel innovation should blossom from tradition. Most of the greatest unorthodox approaches in art(architecture, painting, sculpture, and ay other creative forms)where made while circling around tradition. But thats just me.

 

[Hye Park Lover]

Where's Julian gone? Juliaaaan? Where are you?

 

[julianroberts_00]

back

hey...

been a while.
my mum sadly died...
i'm pretty cool now.

got comments to add & respond to here, if i ever get round to it... Sayan said some interesting things that deserve a reply.. and i just uploaded some new stuff on THE UNIVERSE section of my website if u wanna fill in the gaps:

http://www.julianand.com

direct link:
http://www.blowpr.co.uk/JULIANandSOPHIEsite/universe.htm

PLUS... i got a blog of my own that i'll be speaking on (for as long as it holds my interest

http://www.myspace.com/julianroberts00

Come say hi... Hope you are all good, happy & well,

much love

julian XX

nothing nothing/ JULIAN AND SOPHIE/ Parc deS EXpositions/ BLOW

 

[finalfashion]

Welcome back Julian, it's good to hear from you again =)


I'm sorry for your loss. Wishing you strength and peace. xx


You're on myspace! Maybe I should get a myspace again... it'd be so awesome to have you on my friends list!

I'm thinking of taking a trip to your country soon... I would love to meet you when I do.

 

[fab_fifties_fille]

I echo finalfashions sentiments Julian...it's good to see you again. I'm sad to hear of your loss...sending my love.

 

[julianroberts_00]

All my student and professional life since the very early 90's i have heard the same things said: Comme des Garcons & Yohji Yamamoto have done everything i do already.
In creating a strong & identifiable aesthetic, everything vaguely similar or referential becomes claimed by others.
I love and understand CdG & Yohji, and have closely followed the ins&outs&up&downs of their careers since 1985, but from my perspective the differences are far more vivid than the similarities.
To view my work and that of the Japanese on a purely pictorial/ image based level is of course to miss the point:
you have to to physically hold and examine my garments/ patterns, or see them being drawn before your eyes in my presence to appreciate the vast gap that seperates us.
That is: My work is revealed in my presence more clearly than in my absence, or through photographs, diagrams or words on a computer screen.
I appreciate the generalization you make, but from my point of view it is meaningless.
You are not looking for the differences, whereas i of course embody them.
Patern cutting and design are physical activities, they extend from the hand and eye, from rotations of the wrist, elbow & shoulder, but they also flow from the mind and its perception of spacial awareness, from the phsycological processes of transfering ideas & concepts into 2Dimentional patterns, which then construct in 3D.
What i lay claim to is a way and manner of communicating this process to others physically.
I do so sometimes in a dumbed-down and deliberately over-simplistic way because that is often the entry level for real engagement & attention grabbing.
Cutting and garment construction is often not explained clearly, it is an area often dressed up in myth, pretence, camp & bullsh*t.
The media rarely grasp it at-all, and bestow the title of 'Cutting Genius' on designers without any real inside knowledge or experience of the subject.
For many years, the work of CdG, Yohji & Miyake was unassailable, they were put on a pedastool and deemed beyond technical criticism.
Of course i object to such idolitary as any real hardened creator would, and i am more than happy to knock them both down a bit.
A lot of the Japanese designers work of which we speak is really crap & ill conceived, but that doesn't detract from my appreciation of their total output.
To me they are heroic.
CdG & Yohji do not aim to communicate HOW the garment is cut differently, they aim to show THAT it is cut differently.
This creates a real and very beautiful mystery to their work, an elusiveness that draws attention to silhoette, detail & form without fully satisfying curiosity.
I do keep back some secrets, but i also reveal my tricks in as simplistic a way as i can to those who wish to know more:
That is, i take some of my most regularly used techniques and streamline them so that i can show them to experts & non-experts in a manner that encourages them to explore how garments may possibly be cut.
The difference you should understand is that this is simply an alternative starting point, not an end point.
Subtraction Cutting is an approach to pattern-making that incorporates chance discovery, distance, gods-eye views, and the ability to cut fast & inaccurately.
On its own this of course is not enough.
A Subtraction Cut garment is not 'necessarily' a beautiful thing, but then if it isn't little effort is lost in discarding it.
You are quite right to say that perfecting a garment one millimeter at a time is a real artform, but neither does this approach necessarily lead to something that is beautiful either.
Sometimes a garment cut in 30mins does exceed the beauty and intricacy of a garment reworked 20times & fitted to millimeter perfection.
That's just where we are today, in the same way that an accidental mark or found object might exceed the beauty of a perfectly achieved oil painting.
The traditions of cutting and sewing as a craft are not being dismissed, but rather the mythology & pretence that surrounds them.
I at no point say that fitting and gradual slow perfection of a garment should now be abandoned, as in my own work this process is essential.
But now you can appreciate a flipside view: a cutter may create an immediate shape, from a new & different kind of starting point, and may look over at someone who overworks a garment or who needs to rework it 20 times as perhaps not infact knowing what they are doing or looking for !?
The garment achieved more immediately may sometimes fall closer to being 'right' earlier on in the development process. But of course not 'necessarily'.
All i am doing in revealing and communicating these techniques which i call 'Subtraction Cutting' is to give new designers either:
a) the ability to cut fast without obscurring the technical process in mathematical rules & precission.
b) the ability to cut something fast that can then be reworked 20 times, and fitted to millimeter precision slowly over time using traditional methods.
It's up to the designer/maker to create the best results, not me: i have my own work to do !
Lastly, to say that these techniques were pioneered years ago is to fall at the feet of CdG, Yohji & Issey in far too religeous a fashion. Yes they have played with some of the techniques too in their own ways, but most of these ideas are age old concepts used in western & eastern costume traditions that stretches back to before medeaval times.
In many ways they are the essence of every garment: A hollow tube or a plane of fabric that wraps & twists around the body.
I just mix them up in my own manner, communicate them with my own voice & body, and bring them to life in performance in a way that nods&winks at the traditions & Japanese before me, in a way that is unique to me.
I am not "disrespectful of CdG, Yohji & everyone else", i am disrespectful of those who bow down before them, and do not advance or take their legacy forward.
I think your appreciation of the value of gradual perfection is admirable, and perfectly applicable to Subtraction Cutting.
I also think your questioning of me and my methods in a critical way is right and proper: If i were you i'd question me too!
Thank you very much for reigniting my interest in this thread.
I mean that respectfully.
j

 

[rui]

WElcome back Julian, its great to read your thoughts again.

 

[Zazie]

Really sorry to hear about Julian's mom passing away. It can be really tough for a long while, all losses are, but especially so when it is a parent. My sympathies....

Glad to know Julian has a new blog, will definitely visit. Work has been really hectic for me, but will post more on tfs when I can.

Thank you so much rui, for offering to help with the Yohji puzzle. I'll dig it up when summer comes round and post it.

Wow, so much to read from Sayan and Julian. Thank you two! Very thought provoking and exciting. Must come back when work is over.

 

[julianroberts_00]

Now everyone stop agreeing with me

How you all doing? Thanks Fab50s, Final & Zazie for your kindness... yeah if you come to the uk Danielle we gotta meet!!!
I'm so bored of talking about cutting... what else can we talk about?!Ha

 

[Guessgirl96]

I just browsed this thread and I really love a lot of it. Are there current season runway pics up anywhere? Is his stuff avalible in the US?

 

[finalfashion]

ahhh Julian! You thrive for the tough customers, eh?

Other subjects I wonder about...

I'm graduating soon. I'm thinking a lot about my educational experiences, and the opportunities I have and don't have now that I'm graduating.

I'm interested in your experiences as a fashion student and professor... I must say I do admire my professors, and I think they have a difficult job, some are good, most are bad, etc. I had a pretty balanced education overall when it comes to fashion skills, with a few awful gaps when it comes to career skills (why did they not teach us about negotiating a salary? About how freelancing works? Why am I coming out of school feeling bewildered and not prepared in these areas?)

What do you like about being a professor? What do you hate?

You've talked about the deluge of fashion grads in your country vs. the industry's capacity to support them, and the effects this has. How has being a professor and making a living from this system affected the way you perceive it? Are you part of the problem? How do you prepare your students to deal with their lives after graduation? How has your experience as a student informed your role as a professor?

 

[Hye Park Lover]

Waaaay, Julian's back *throws a party*