Karl Lagerfeld - Designer

[Deleted member 116957]

How has Karl gotten a pass? I feel like he got A LOT of criticism during his lifetime, way more than others. Pretending that no one said anything is ridiculous. Of course within fashion, I doubt he was challenged, but come on… there are articles out there written by fashion outlets asking if he deserves the tribute at the Met. It’s bizarre to act like he’s never been criticized!

 

[susseinmcswanny]

No he totally was racist lol but that's a whole other conversation that isn't really pointed to one person. I just don't think plopping people in either the good bucket or bad bucket is really that healthy of way of looking at things. You can admire him for being an artistic and style genius while acknowledging his so called bad qualities. I agree with what you say about cherrypicking, but at the same time, anything that has to do with "luxury" will inherently get a pass by the circles on top doing horrible things because it's intrinsically exclusive and elitist. You can't democratize elitism. The only way a person like Karl would be cancelled today is if someone like Pinault would think it'd be a little treat to shut people up so they'd buy more sh*t.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Communism or gtfo

 

[gazebo]

One might think that Karl was dead-pan and frank on the border of insensitiveness (something that I believe he deeply enjoyed) but that DOES NOT make him a racist.

I think he was irreverent and a provocateur; I feel he had a right to be arrogant because he was brilliant, and also he understood the importance of branding himself; creating a character (both visually and verbally) for marketing; there's the art, but also there is the artiste.

 

[Squizree]

No he totally was racist lol but that's a whole other conversation that isn't really pointed to one person. I just don't think plopping people in either the good bucket or bad bucket is really that healthy of way of looking at things. You can admire him for being an artistic and style genius while acknowledging his so called bad qualities. I agree with what you say about cherrypicking, but at the same time, anything that has to do with "luxury" will inherently get a pass by the circles on top doing horrible things because it's intrinsically exclusive and elitist. You can't democratize elitism. The only way a person like Karl would be cancelled today is if someone like Pinault would think it'd be a little treat to shut people up so they'd buy more sh*t.

Agree with all this. He was a talented piece of sh!t. The luxury industry also gets a pass because the PEOPLE give it a pass. People love luxury. The beauty, creativity, and glamor these industries serve us have a very real and powerful effect on how people see them. But if they were to apply the same lenses that they do for other wealthy industries like Big Tech or Big Pharma, they'd suffocate from their own hypocrisy.

 

[Drusilla_]

Agree with all this. He was a talented piece of sh!t. The luxury industry also gets a pass because the PEOPLE give it a pass. People love luxury. The beauty, creativity, and glamor these industries serve us have a very real and powerful effect on how people see them. But if they were to apply the same lenses that they do for other wealthy industries like Big Tech or Big Pharma, they'd suffocate from their own hypocrisy.

There's one fundamental difference between luxury fashion and Big Tech/Big Pharma: the former, historically, has never traded on the image of being "good" or "good for you" the way the latter two did. Look at the rhetoric espoused by the Zuckerbergs or [pick your tech baron here] of this world vs what any given designer, even an era-defining one, has to say about their collections.

Also the reach is very different. Billions of people use Big Pharma products because, well, health, or are on various tech platforms because they're effectively forced to by their jobs (try getting a job without a LinkedIn profile these days), vs the handful of millions who might buy even a bottle of perfume. No surprise people apply a different lens to fashion - it's an easy target thanks to accusations of elitism and things that make people feel insecure, but it's small potatoes compared to the influence the other two have - if anything, fashion has been negatively affected by increasing reliance on tech and the attempt to orient products to smartphone viewing - which is why trying to draw equivalences between them is a mistake.

 

[Drusilla_]

Fashion is the wrong industry to look for saints and heroes in, tbh. Karl gets a lot of the criticism, but… he’s hardly the worst of his generation. Sorry to say!

my feelings exactly re: the bolded part. It's fine to admire designers for their stated values or object to them, but creative abilities don't exactly get portioned out to people based on how "good" they are morally or how correct their expressed views are for the time in which they're being examined.

 

[Squizree]

There's one fundamental difference between luxury fashion and Big Tech/Big Pharma: the former, historically, has never traded on the image of being "good" or "good for you" the way the latter two did. Look at the rhetoric espoused by the Zuckerbergs or [pick your tech baron here] of this world vs what any given designer, even an era-defining one, has to say about their collections.

Also the reach is very different. Billions of people use Big Pharma products because, well, health, or are on various tech platforms because they're effectively forced to by their jobs (try getting a job without a LinkedIn profile these days), vs the handful of millions who might buy even a bottle of perfume. No surprise people apply a different lens to fashion - it's an easy target thanks to accusations of elitism and things that make people feel insecure, but it's small potatoes compared to the influence the other two have - if anything, fashion has been negatively affected by increasing reliance on tech and the attempt to orient products to smartphone viewing - which is why trying to draw equivalences between them is a mistake.

Disagree. Anna Wintour famously told designers not to dress Republican candidates' wives. Donatella Versace sent outfits down the runway with "equality" text everywhere. The industry CONSTANTLY harping on about "diversity" in models etc. So many more examples. The fashion industry is amongst the PREACHIEST, hand-in-hand with Hollywood, with sanctimonious celebrities 'educating' us on "liberty". This is all while the fashion industry exploits untold millions of workers, completely wrecks the environment, and perpetuates wealth inequality by keeping money in the hands of the top 1%. The MET Gala is one big tax-break orgy. Not to mention, the LONG DOCUMENTED record of luxury industries exploiting the insecurities of low-income populations. The research and the data has been showing this for decades.

Big Pharma and Big Tech are just as guilty. They're just easier to spot and criticize because they lack the luster and fantasy of designer fashion that many people are happy to turn the blind eye for.

Like, don't get me wrong. I still enjoy fashion a lot. But I see it for what it is. The wolf in sheep's clothing (almost literally) who pretends to be "on your side". But the truth is the designer fashion industry would absolutely not exist without the exploitation of workers and consumers.

 

[Bugsy]

This line of reasoning has been, and STILL IS, used to justify all kinds of hate. But celebrities and the fashion crowd are almost always immune from the same criticism because they sell us the fantasy.

A very quick Google search will show you how well documented his racial bigotry is and how ruthless he was towards heavier women, and the ridiculous things he had to say about anorexia. ANYONE else would have been labelled a misogynistic c**t and his career completely dragged.

I'm not telling you to not enjoy his work. Just recognize that many turn the blind eye because they can't accept that someone who created so much beauty can have such degenerate ideas. In fact, the fashion/luxury industry, as a whole, generally gets a pass, when in reality it's one of the most destructive industries on the planet.

I don’t like him but the stuff you are describing just makes him a normal man in those times. He wasn’t abnormally extreme compared to most guys of the times. I just think Karl Lagerfeld was an ***hole.

 

[tricotineacetat]

Disagree. Anna Wintour famously told designers not to dress Republican candidates' wives. Donatella Versace sent outfits down the runway with "equality" text everywhere. The industry CONSTANTLY harping on about "diversity" in models etc. So many more examples. The fashion industry is amongst the PREACHIEST, hand-in-hand with Hollywood, with sanctimonious celebrities 'educating' us on "liberty". This is all while the fashion industry exploits untold millions of workers, completely wrecks the environment, and perpetuates wealth inequality by keeping money in the hands of the top 1%. The MET Gala is one big tax-break orgy. Not to mention, the LONG DOCUMENTED record of luxury industries exploiting the insecurities of low-income populations. The research and the data has been showing this for decades.

Big Pharma and Big Tech are just as guilty. They're just easier to spot and criticize because they lack the luster and fantasy of designer fashion that many people are happy to turn the blind eye for.

Like, don't get me wrong. I still enjoy fashion a lot. But I see it for what it is. The wolf in sheep's clothing (almost literally) who pretends to be "on your side". But the truth is the designer fashion industry would absolutely not exist without the exploitation of workers and consumers.

At the end of all your accuses, the conclusion to move on forward would be exactly what? Artistic censorship through quote of models booked by body mass, color of skin? A ban of high fashion advertising campaigns due to unhealthy imagery in a similar way as is already being practiced for cigarettes and alcohol in a lot of countries? The fact that a majority of people can purchase affordable clothes on the high street is build on paying low worker fees elsewhere, how do you think that can be fixed without cutting the majority of people off who can't pay higher prices for garments?

While I agree the fashion industry needs to be held responsible for some of the negative impacts it is causing environmentally and socially, I hear little constructive suggestions everytime woke people raise accuses.

 

[Drusilla_]

I don’t like him but the stuff you are describing just makes him a normal man in those times. He wasn’t abnormally extreme compared to most guys of the times. I just think Karl Lagerfeld was an ***hole.

also the individual virtue or goodness of a designer (or artist, author, musician, filmmaker) etc is not the primary factor in whether people want to wear/read/watch what they've put out, it's entirely secondary as a bit of window dressing - a nice add-on if you will, and not one that defines the merit of their output.

Karl was massively rude about a lot of groups of people but none of the ladies spending money at Chanel or Fendi during his tenture were exactly clamouring to support a designer who said all the 'right' things or was 'nice' in the approved ways of today. It's not unlike how some media outlets that report on books, like to scold their readers for having "old fashioned" reading tastes (e.g. Roald Dahl) and like to suggest 'woker' alternatives to whatever has fallen afoul of the culture police this time.

 

[Squizree]

At the end of all your accuses, the conclusion to move on forward would be exactly what? Artistic censorship through quote of models booked by body mass, color of skin? A ban of high fashion advertising campaigns due to unhealthy imagery in a similar way as is already being practiced for cigarettes and alcohol in a lot of countries? The fact that a majority of people can purchase affordable clothes on the high street is build on paying low worker fees elsewhere, how do you think that can be fixed without cutting the majority of people off who can't pay higher prices for garments?

While I agree the fashion industry needs to be held responsible for some of the negative impacts it is causing environmentally and socially, I hear little constructive suggestions everytime woke people raise accuses.

They're not accusations, they're documented facts. No, I didn't suggest any of those things. Don't put my words in my mouth. My point is simply that the luxury industry is simply too attractive for people to ever hold accountable the way they do other markets. People will yell "Tax the rich!" at Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, but will yell "Yaaas, get money queen!" at Beyonce and Gigi Hadid, conveniently overlooking the fact that they're both products of the same oppressive systems.

I'm making a commentary more on CONSUMERS than I am about the actual industry itself. The industry will survive as long as people buy into the fantasy. Sorry if I didnt make that clear. I understand this sounds kinda ranty, but the hypocrisy is blatant.

 

[Nimsay]

I hate the way the world glorifies him. He was not a nice man.

Nobody cares honey.

Karl was prob the greatest fashion designer since Worth - who invented designer clothes. The idea that he should be forgotten because he said what pretty much everyone was thinking is ludicrous.

People had no real problem with him because society at-large agrees with his POVs. That whole “silent majority” is a real thing.

high end fashion is literally the least abusive type of fashion yet youre here complaining about it. Where else can a shoe maker actually support his family if not at Prada? In other countries that same person would make nothing. Where else could a dress maker have a career that actually earns a reasonable wage except at a Dior atelier? In another country they would be worked for pennies and receive no benefits.

Fashion isnt an escape it is a natural extension of the needs of the whole world.

 

[Nimsay]

Also FWIW that Karl Lagefeld diffusion line they have now sells like hot cakes because people love Karl.

 

[Lola701]

Karl was prob the greatest fashion designer since Worth - who invented designer clothes.

Everybody knows here that I love Karl, he is my all time favorite designer ever and I put him right up there with the greatest but even him wouldn’t put himself on top of those who came before him since Worth ahahahah!

He is IMO above YSL and all of his contemporaries like Givenchy, Valentino and all…
But, Balenciaga, Vionnet, Madame Gres, Schiaparelli…He cannot be above that lol.

 

[lagerfeld]

people and blogs will always downplay karl's talent and impact, but none of that will change what he did for fashion, and i will blindly defend karl because i love him and what he did, f*ck the tfs saints who like to be morally right

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Just wait until it's Galliano's turn ...

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Celebrity worship culture get's more insane on the daily. Mashed potato brains talking like "ugh it's getting harder and harder to stan any fashion brands anymore" ? Literally get a job. Water a plant. Look up in the sky. How hard is it to think about fashion, art, people, whatever, in a more nuanced way? Go abolish the regular law enforcement and install the morality police already.

 

[Deleted member 116957]

But... but... he was... "problematic"!! One of the most intellectually lazy terms invented. I mean you can critically assess his work and him as a person, but there is such a laziness to most of the hot-takes.

 

[Kimihiro]

Just wait until it's Galliano's turn ...

For that exact reason why I think it will never happen, unless it’s packaged with someone else a la Prada/Schiaparelli. It was too public. Which is sad because I think he deserves it.

Re Karl: nobody really cares or surprisingly many people agree with him. The world is far bigger than echo chambers.