Michael Rider - Designer, Creative Director of Celine

[tourbillions]

Almost anyone can be more interesting than Hedi. He’s not designer

glorifiied stylist

 

[tricotineacetat]

glorifiied stylist

I am tired of these endless discussions since in most cases, they are thoughtlessly generalized. We are comparing different genres and taste, it’s a bit as when people discredit abstract art pieces from painters like Malewitsch, Rothko or Klein not to be art with the argument that 'everyone could make that'.

Noone in today’s time would doubt Jil Sander (one of my personal favourites) as a true designer, and yet when we look at the clothes she was known for, they don’t strike us with a visually arresting novelty factor - Similar as with Calvin Klein or Helmut Lang. Even the Meiers who just quit Jil Sander created more 'designed-looking' clothes than anything Jil Sander was ever known for - And yet without much approval on this very forum.

Contemporary fashion design knows many 'schools', and quite literally, when I have to think of all the London designers of the 2000s who went through the rigorous tutoring of the late Louise Wilson, we have had an impressive wave of talent (of which unfortunately most have since closed their independent businesses), most of which emphasized on the novelty factor in fashion design.

It's a valid point of view to seek for a different aspect in art and design but it doesn’t make one a lesser designer than the other.

 

[Kanzai]

glorifiied stylist

Hedi is a very respected designer afaik, he got both the zeitgeist hype and compliments from other BIG designers like Yves, Karl, Armani. He might not be everyone's cup of tea but his contributions to fashion is not to be underestimated.

 

[bc collector]

It's a valid point of view to seek for a different aspect in art and design but it doesn’t make one a lesser designer than the other.

I would also argue that, given the fully fledged post-modern era we are living in, originality is a word that has somewhat lost its meaning, maybe we have to wait for another couple of decades for something truly new to come up...

I am really surprised by the reactions Rider's debut has elicited, like people were expecting to be in the wake of a revolution. To me, he made the sensible thing to do: create a collection that put together the different identities Celine has embodied over the last twenty years, while being faithful to his own history as a designer: he had a central role in creating that specific late Phoebe-era silhouette and he reclaimed it, while also scattering hints of Hedi's time as a CD and, at the same time, staying true to Celine's bourgeois core aesthetic.
Many seem also oblivious to the fact that this was in fact a pre-collection, so wearability has to be crucial - interesting that he decided to start with a pre-collection, same as Phoebe did.
Can we give the guy at least the time of another two, three collections before we crucify him?

 

[Lola701]

glorifiied stylist

A genius menswear designer, a glorified stylist in womenswear, a decent photographer but above all, he is a fantastic Art/Creative Director.

 

[tricotineacetat]

A genius menswear designer, a glorified stylist in womenswear, a decent photographer but above all, he is a fantastic Art/Creative Director.

I would argue that the ingredients of his menswear design weren’t even particularly genius in that 'how the hell could he come up with that', surprising manner - Not more than Helmut, with whom perhaps his earlier efforts had a bit more in common with.

I feel what was or has always been the case with Hedi has been a compelling whole between a great, instantly-recognizable cut, well-considered fabric and construction choices and the ability to translate clothes with a very formal, almost ceremonial air with a sense of modern ease. The way he applied hedonistic, delicate elements into his menswear never felt gaudy and clichéed. The way he worked with glamorous fabrics at Dior had that industrial modernism Nicolas Ghesquiere or Helmut Lang also had in their best collections.

Was I disappointed with the more straight-forward casual route he took, introduced with his FW'04 collection? Absolutely - Although I always considered the show less as a literal way to replicate outfits and more as a big choice of fabrics, colors etc. from which it was easy to build a story of your own.

While I don’t connect a lot of womenswear-specific fashion moments with Hedi, I appreciate the fact that he provided both at Saint Laurent and Celine a broad selection of great tailoring and wearable shoes (I thought it was fantastic that he always offered the more editorial pieces from his men's RTW and footwear for women, too!). Again, I might look at it more from the perception of a buyer or stylist from the times when people plucked pieces rather than full looks from a designer’s showroom but I feel in the core products he is beloved for, the praise is justified.

 

[PDFSD]

I would also argue that, given the fully fledged post-modern era we are living in, originality is a word that has somewhat lost its meaning, maybe we have to wait for another couple of decades for something truly new to come up...

I am really surprised by the reactions Rider's debut has elicited, like people were expecting to be in the wake of a revolution. To me, he made the sensible thing to do: create a collection that put together the different identities Celine has embodied over the last twenty years, while being faithful to his own history as a designer: he had a central role in creating that specific late Phoebe-era silhouette and he reclaimed it, while also scattering hints of Hedi's time as a CD and, at the same time, staying true to Celine's bourgeois core aesthetic.
Many seem also oblivious to the fact that this was in fact a pre-collection, so wearability has to be crucial - interesting that he decided to start with a pre-collection, same as Phoebe did.
Can we give the guy at least the time of another two, three collections before we crucify him?

I think the collection and him included people are eating it up as phoebe light 2.0 in the positive sense, and not saying the less pleasing thoughts out loud you can read and see it on social.
he is far from crucified, speaking of pre collections as you know phoebe pre collections where dam strong and impactful and still directional.

Nothing we say here will stop Michael rider doing 3 or 20 more collections, a forum should be hyper critical if not i can read generic or uneducated comments every day on social media.

I do see this constant push to keep telling people stop having an opposing opinion or even radical opinion in general but also fashion pc culture/policing , we are just conditioning our selfs to keep accepting the bar that is set constantly lower and lower when it comes to art and design and culture .

There are even waves of tik tok vids of young people going to museums and posing with art and say this is dump and stupid and we wonder why technocrates are ever so pushing algorithms with certain agenda ?

Its all be design, more uneducated people we will have the less critical the masses will be, makes for more easily influence public opnions to needs of corporations and the few that control it.


this slogan of give it 3 collection and then see or judge we know is not working any more, bring back your only as good as your last collection is the real fact.

it does not matter who did it first it matters who did it the best ...these are the real rules and reality of fashion.

stop baby sitting creative directors that get paid millions it's a job do it well get praise, be mid get sh*t !!!!

(all not personal just saying in general here)

 

[MulletProof]

no one fears more a hedi slimane debate than rothko in the afterlife..

(why is he always brought up! 😆)

 

[HigthaVandah]

We are comparing different genres and taste

I think these conversations (here and elsewhere) tend to take on a "Is Hedi The Best™ or does he suck?" form because it's less personally exposing than discussing individual preferences. "Hedi is boring" tells us something about Hedi, grammatically. "I'm not interested in Hedi" tells us something about the speaker's personality.

 

[Grets]

Unpopular opinion, LVMH brands do not get enough criticism. The radio silence from the major fashion influencers with big platforms on the Loro Piana scandal shows how deep LVMH's pockets are. Sure Business of Fashion, Bloomberg, Forbes and other news platforms are going to cover it. But I thought the response to Rider's Celine was quite lukewarm to positive. I do think a lot of the praise went to the stylist and the over accessorizing more than anything. Ohh yeah there was that ugly Phoebe bag brought back. But I'm glad people are honest HERE. Even if there is strong disagreement, there has to be a space where people can really say what needs to be said and defend their arguments.

 

[PDFSD]

Hedi being brought up its like Trump keep bringing up Bidden or Hillary to blame for something lol

on another note seeing new Phoebe drop you can see no matter who works under phoebe they cant do it like her (even when she repeats her old work now) and why this x designer worked under x creative director therefore honoring x legacy is bs to me ...

once you get to be a creative director you should 80 %have your own vision a good example was Pilati when he did YSL and other brand even at times you see link with prada via taste if color etc it was not prada .

that's why i dislike michael rider version of Celine so far and i think it wont change for the better and not waiting for it.

and to me he is not a Phoebe nor a Hedi he lacks the personal conviction of own vision as a creative director with impact on fashion /culture in long term.

 

[tourbillions]

A genius menswear designer, a glorified stylist in womenswear, a decent photographer but above all, he is a fantastic Art/Creative Director.

cant agree more

 

[jeanclaude]

For me, Hedi Slimane behaved like a designer at Dior Homme...but at YSL and Celine he behaved like a glorified stylist.

 

[PPPT]

For me, Hedi Slimane behaved like a designer at Dior Homme...but at YSL and Celine he behaved like a glorified stylist.

I wonder what Hedi learned from his five year absence from the fashion world before returning as a designer (stylist) at Saint Laurent and later at Celine. I'm not sure if anyone has ever interviewed him specifically about this period, as he tends to focus on the present. At Saint Laurent, he spoke about building a strong world and bringing it down to Rive Gauche. At Celine, he declared that “privacy is the only luxury now.”

So I'm not quite sure what led to such a transformation in him, especially compared to his time at Dior Homme.

 

[tricotineacetat]

I wonder what Hedi learned from his five year absence from the fashion world before returning as a designer (stylist) at Saint Laurent and later at Celine. I'm not sure if anyone has ever interviewed him specifically about this period, as he tends to focus on the present. At Saint Laurent, he spoke about building a strong world and bringing it down to Rive Gauche. At Celine, he declared that “privacy is the only luxury now.”

So I'm not quite sure what led to such a transformation in him, especially compared to his time at Dior Homme.

I think he said it quite clearly during his lengthy interview he gave to a french newspaper, I forgot which one it was.

He basically acknowledged that halfway through his Dior tenure, he saw a necessity to recalibrate his approach to design - A departure from a more conceptual, novelty-oriented approach in favor of something grounded in realism and telling a narrative derived from the scenes he had documented in his photography.

 

[Lola701]

For me the genius of Hedi is in the multidisciplinary aspect of his work.

He is not the first one to be that way but let’s say that the others were more interesting as designers in a way. Someone like Thierry Mugler had a level of control similar to Hedi but it’s not the same.

I think Hedi manage to imprint the same mood from his designs, stores to campaigns and candid photos. It’s that level of coherence.

Karl also took photos. But what made you dream about his work was his dresses. The photos were fine but they didn’t necessarily told more or added more.

Hedi’s clothes don’t make me dream but there’s something impressive about the level of coherence and that’s his genius.

I think he said it quite clearly during his lengthy interview he gave to a french newspaper, I forgot which one it was.

He basically acknowledged that halfway through his Dior tenure, he saw a necessity to recalibrate his approach to design - A departure from a more conceptual, novelty-oriented approach in favor of something grounded in realism and telling a narrative derived from the scenes he had documented in his photography.

Which materialized in the shift between SS2004 and FW2004.
But I think his influence on fashion would have been very different if he didn’t made that shift…Because it’s from that moment that his style started to hit the streets and started to have an influence on fashion.
Some jeans brands started to emerge and quite quickly, some brands like The Kooples started to emerge and existing brands like Sandro shifted their aesthetic. I can name people like Zadig and Voltaire, Notify and things like that.

 

[PDFSD]

I think he said it quite clearly during his lengthy interview he gave to a french newspaper, I forgot which one it was.

He basically acknowledged that halfway through his Dior tenure, he saw a necessity to recalibrate his approach to design - A departure from a more conceptual, novelty-oriented approach in favor of something grounded in realism and telling a narrative derived from the scenes he had documented in his photography.

Don't tell the truth :-) people will find ways to still not believe or understand he said and explained it already years ago in his own words.

In a way Phoebe whent opposite from reality vintage fantasy at Chloe to design at Celine...... yet we have peace with that , but not for Hedi.

 

[Lola701]

Don't tell the truth :-) people will find ways to still not believe or understand he said and explained it already years ago in his own words.

In a way Phoebe whent opposite from reality vintage fantasy at Chloe to design at Celine...... yet we have peace with that , but not for Hedi.

But to play devil’s advocate, I will say to you that for the majority of Hedi’s career, we lived through the promise of what his womenswear would have been.

Maybe we were naive!

But turns out that we never experienced the possibility of a greatness in womenswear in the first place to be prepare to a transition from a design standpoint.

I think most of Hedi fans have been fans since the late 90’s or at least the early 00’s.

From a womenswear aspect it was a frozen shower, really.
Overtime we got used to it but his body work in womenswear has always been a challenge to me…really.
Yes it’s supported by a strong vision and extreme coherence but yeah, your point of reference was Solitaire…For us, it was that Saint Laurent collection.

And to add insult to injury, he teased us with fabulous photos of Anja Rubik in B&W.

And I think the discourse around Hedi always comes from that. Most of his fans loves him
for his menswear. Some women and men have a different appreciation of his womenswear.

 

[PDFSD]

But to play devil’s advocate, I will say to you that for the majority of Hedi’s career, we lived through the promise of what his womenswear would have been.

Maybe we were naive!

But turns out that we never experienced the possibility of a greatness in womenswear in the first place to be prepare to a transition from a design standpoint.

I think most of Hedi fans have been fans since the late 90’s or at least the early 00’s.

From a womenswear aspect it was a frozen shower, really.
Overtime we got used to it but his body work in womenswear has always been a challenge to me…really.
Yes it’s supported by a strong vision and extreme coherence but yeah, your point of reference was Solitaire…For us, it was that Saint Laurent collection.

And to add insult to injury, he teased us with fabulous photos of Anja Rubik in B&W.

And I think the discourse around Hedi always comes from that. Most of his fans loves him
for his menswear. Some women and men have a different appreciation of his womenswear.

honestly i like his women's wear at ysl and celine you can get a hot sharp suit to a sexy dess to a very old school formal dress , i think mostly what people cant relate with hedi is the rock and roll /indie /punk /wave/glam rock etc ...side of his clothes because music/that style for most people have moved on to other things.

what i know from his team is hedi is obsessed with discovering new music youth subcultures , because thats the way reailty can live with his clothes when they are informed by a set rules and codes and style.

i get that ...i know many don't want or care about the research and meaning of things and like the end product and vague association is enough.

thing with hedi is you have to be very nerdy about things to appreciate it fully. its like guys with music equipments or watches ...they can be annoying but thats separate from the designer and his vision for me.

i find michael rider mens and womens design terribly mid and lack of vision, while hedi early first ysl collections even pre dior where more pure and strong and had direction and vision ...in 2025 i find this more a problem than any bad hedi womens collection.

 

[PDFSD]

ysl 2000 by hedi (25 year old i will take this fashion risk )



celine 2025 michael rider (over this tight 2.0 twink kiara nightly in coco chanel parfum ad biker overall )


Keira Knightley Chanel Coco Mademoiselle advert 2013