Phoebe Philo - Designer

[jeanclaude]

The big problem here so far is that her clothes and accessories lack identity. Her Céline stuff was easily identifiable, there was a strong personal style. Yes, she was a minimalist...but you could find actual design in her collections back then.

Now it looks generic. I browse her website; and I feel as if I am browsing any random e-shop. Everything is overpriced and under-designed.

 

[rowjellies]

I disagree that the success of the other brands you mention has to do with being instagram-able, it has to do more with the halo around those brands that push very simple looking bags as new classics or it bags, of these mostly well documented on IG brands in all types of ways organic or brand posts you get bombarded ....LP or The Row benefited from the post Phoebe era, adding the focus on quite luxury or whatever they call it now.

Phoebe even had a bag with a horizontal zip kelly style top handle much like the L27 pouch now....you can bet your dollar´s that she has been on the mood board a few times in general.

The BV pouch bag thing was a bag also done at Celine even in her last show, with BV it took off more beacuse it made sense and the version clicked with the fashion crowd sometimes good ideas need the right environment/context to be a succes.

The question is also Phoebe´s brand might be getting the short end of the stick because of the trend is so well spread since her last Celine days.

Then again all she need is a few hit styles in bags and shoes and she can ride a new wave of success, i think a element of surprise or shock is missing in the prestinion it's just because we seen sooo many brands do a twist on her style at Celine you take it for granted what is now presented under her own name.

I agree that "halo" of the maison is important, and Phoebe still needs to put in the years and the work to build the brand halo and brand world that her competitor The Row has.

That being said, the specificity and relevance of the design, does matter. Like every brand, some of The Row designs do not take off organically like Margaux/Park/Idaho/Moon because they're really missing that specificity or it factor. That being said, the Row has plenty of hits.

 

[brandon J pierre]

I think the only thing that can be problematic with Philo is the absence of retail space around the world but in retrospective, those prices are good for the audience she is looking for.

Maybe people should be feel less entitled to luxury and be ok with something out pricing them.

I personally have my price limits on some pieces. I’m totally fine with buying on sales and things like that. There are enough people who are rich for that.

What will be interesting for her brand will be which items will push them to be commercially viable on a long run. When Tom Ford launched his own line, it was super expensive and it had all the superlatives. In his business model, sunglasses and fragrances were the driving forces of the operations.

The problem is that with expansion, compromises had to be made.

I don’t think Phoebe is envisioning competing with big brands. So I guess no compromises on her clothes and the quality will be crucial. But production and distribution and maintaining that fine line with exclusivity will be key.

The question for me is « what am I willing to pay for ». I think the RTW for the most part is ok. I think the prices of the bags are a bit all over the place and I’m frustrated by the prices of the jewelry. I love the belt buckle cuff in silver but 1800€ is not what I’m willing to pay for that.
I think she needs to work on her footwear though.

Tbh, I think Phoebe, with the scale of her brand can command those prices. It’s very expensive, too much sometimes but in reality, if it has a real life reality, it would be more justifiable.

I find The Row overpriced. Phoebe might be overpriced but I would rather spend my money at PP than TR.

Sometimes, there’s no logic to it.

Great example using Tom Ford. I think her prices are this way for a reason it sets her woman apart from all the other girls which is very good but it still is a over the top price in this time of the market even though that we know that there's a lot of rich women out there it still might be a little jarring. Style wise, I love this neo lesbian Chic thing she's got going on I think it's fabulous and nobody else is kind of doing that right now, and we know it's not the Row because well it's not God dead boring.🥱 I think in a year or two if shes still in business which she will be we will see different multiple price rangers but she needs to hit some high notes the way Tom Ford hit a lot of great high notes when his women wear came out and he didn't have fashion shows it was fantastic love Tom Ford.

 

[brandon J pierre]

Oh sorry I just saw the latest drop,
can anybody spot the problem here?
It's the price because that's it!
That white bag is absolutely gorgeous I have zero problems with it that skin bag may not be everybody's taste but it's fabulous that silver cuff thing I love it and I want it but you can turn so many people away with those prices yeah you'll get a couple of rich women, but always remember fashion in this style range is boasted by a group of women who are self-made and they know money and they know quality. And they never want to feel like they're being taken advantage of and that kind of feels like it with these prices. That overly cool woman that she's designing for can afford it. But they may look at something else. turning away customers is never a good thing. She's literally turning people away at this point.

 

[brandon J pierre]

These clothes are absolutely cool not overly designed no stupid logos she really sets the women apart from all the mess that's out there in this world full of crap, all the trying too hard designers she's really good. And I love each and everything in these pieces but she may need to open up a shop so women come in a bit more and splurge because these clothing here are all about splurging.

 

[jeremydante]

Hedi did terrible numbers his first year and a half at Celine.

Hedi was supported by prior season revenue and proper overhead for a house that had long been in existence. So again, my original points are supported. I get what you're saying, and agree to some extent. Phoebe has fans. Her works been proven.

It hasn’t been ONE year!

First year, like every other start up or brand, is still vitally important for what's to come next. In strategic planning, first 5 years are important but second year is based on what you can do in year one. Whether you're surviving after a shortfall, or basking in doubling revenue. Breaking even is simply not enough, especially in the world of fashion. We know this.

Agree, she was in the fashion conversation when she had the PR of houses with long standing history. Past tense. Very much looking forward to seeing how she'll grow past year one, or sustain like you mention in 2/3 years. I really wish there was a different logo than the Times New Roman red text. Maybe she doesn't care, and is doing this all as a money grab. Maybe she won't do runway, or lookbooks, and won't do campaigns. We'll have to see.

 

[brandon J pierre]

Hedi was supported by prior season revenue and proper overhead for a house that had long been in existence. So again, my original points are supported. I get what you're saying, and agree to some extent. Phoebe has fans. Her works been proven.


First year, like every other start up or brand, is still vitally important for what's to come next. In strategic planning, first 5 years are important but second year is based on what you can do in year one. Whether you're surviving after a shortfall, or basking in doubling revenue. Breaking even is simply not enough, especially in the world of fashion. We know this.

Agree, she was in the fashion conversation when she had the PR of houses with long standing history. Past tense. Very much looking forward to seeing how she'll grow past year one, or sustain like you mention in 2/3 years. I really wish there was a different logo than the Times New Roman red text. Maybe she doesn't care, and is doing this all as a money grab. Maybe she won't do runway, or lookbooks, and won't do campaigns. We'll have to see.

I really hope she does not do runway shows runway shows have become absolutely still and boring across the board these little photos are sexy tense and they get the message through very well

 

[tourbillions]

These clothes are absolutely cool not overly designed no stupid logos she really sets the women apart from all the mess that's out there in this world full of crap, all the trying too hard designers she's really good. And I love each and everything in these pieces but she may need to open up a shop so women come in a bit more and splurge because these clothing here are all about splurging.

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random identites by phoebe philo... im sure these prices are ok for her loyal supporters just not enough to invite new clients at this time. I hope her loyal clients are enough to keep her brand afloat until it trickles down to the massess. The only strategy for her is to use her fashion influences to hopefully tap into the top most clients and hopefully work her way down to the sheep instagrammers.

 

[Lola701]

Hedi was supported by prior season revenue and proper overhead for a house that had long been in existence. So again, my original points are supported. I get what you're saying, and agree to some extent. Phoebe has fans. Her works been proven.


First year, like every other start up or brand, is still vitally important for what's to come next. In strategic planning, first 5 years are important but second year is based on what you can do in year one. Whether you're surviving after a shortfall, or basking in doubling revenue. Breaking even is simply not enough, especially in the world of fashion. We know this.

Agree, she was in the fashion conversation when she had the PR of houses with long standing history. Past tense. Very much looking forward to seeing how she'll grow past year one, or sustain like you mention in 2/3 years. I really wish there was a different logo than the Times New Roman red text. Maybe she doesn't care, and is doing this all as a money grab. Maybe she won't do runway, or lookbooks, and won't do campaigns. We'll have to see.

First year of business is important but it hasn’t been a year yet. We are trying to dissect strategies and numbers since the first collection.
That’s why I think it’s important to see how things will evolve. Is she going to have a permanent collection? So far, her distribution has went from full online to one physical presence in NYC. The piece by Vanessa Friedman gave us pieces but so far, we have had 2 drops for UK, US and EU. Her line is not distributed in Asia yet, particularly South Korea, which is the driving machine in luxury like Japan was years ago.

Obviously, dropping on the net is not sustainable because of our attention that is very short. There’s an excitement and then it vanishes…But at the same time, it’s not like the majority of the people looking at it are clients anyway.

Hedi was supported by prior season revenue and proper overhead for a house that had long been in existence. So again, my original points are supported. I get what you're saying, and agree to some extent. Phoebe has fans. Her works been proven.


First year, like every other start up or brand, is still vitally important for what's to come next. In strategic planning, first 5 years are important but second year is based on what you can do in year one. Whether you're surviving after a shortfall, or basking in doubling revenue. Breaking even is simply not enough, especially in the world of fashion. We know this.

Agree, she was in the fashion conversation when she had the PR of houses with long standing history. Past tense. Very much looking forward to seeing how she'll grow past year one, or sustain like you mention in 2/3 years. I really wish there was a different logo than the Times New Roman red text. Maybe she doesn't care, and is doing this all as a money grab. Maybe she won't do runway, or lookbooks, and won't do campaigns. We'll have to see.

But I think she will always be part of the conversation because she is an iconic designer. Will she drive it? No.
I think that time has passed. But history has told us time and time again that the public may not align with the intentions of a designer. I bet her work will be received with the same old comments we get from all her colleagues who had the same level of influence: « I miss her work for Celine ».

It’s totally OK for a designer to design without the intention to not lead the fashion conversation. The last time Armani was a relevant name in terms of driving the fashion conversation was probably 24 years ago. What keeps the creative spark on his brand today is the Couture but then again, the Armani clientele is there. The same can be said about Legendary designers like Yohji and others.

She is a multimillionaire. I don’t think she is doing anything for a money grab. But it’s also OK to aknowledge that the choices she made like her logo, the color, the communication are her decisions. The fact that we don’t like it isn’t relevant.

I hate Hedi’s Helvetica but he doesn’t care. It’s his taste.

It’s her brand after all. And I believe that all those things that doesn’t please a lot of people were considerate. This isn’t an overnight project.

 

[Kennnnn]

Maybe people should be feel less entitled to luxury and be ok with something out pricing them.

I absolutely agree, and I am probably guilty of feeling that way too.

At the same time, it bothers me much more that some brands feel entitled to overprice their products.

Burberry, Prada and Ferragamo are obvious examples. Maybe The Row. And in my view, also Phoebe Philo.

 

[Lola701]

Oh sorry I just saw the latest drop,
can anybody spot the problem here?
It's the price because that's it!
That white bag is absolutely gorgeous I have zero problems with it that skin bag may not be everybody's taste but it's fabulous that silver cuff thing I love it and I want it but you can turn so many people away with those prices yeah you'll get a couple of rich women, but always remember fashion in this style range is boasted by a group of women who are self-made and they know money and they know quality. And they never want to feel like they're being taken advantage of and that kind of feels like it with these prices. That overly cool woman that she's designing for can afford it. But they may look at something else. turning away customers is never a good thing. She's literally turning people away at this point.

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These clothes are absolutely cool not overly designed no stupid logos she really sets the women apart from all the mess that's out there in this world full of crap, all the trying too hard designers she's really good. And I love each and everything in these pieces but she may need to open up a shop so women come in a bit more and splurge because these clothing here are all about splurging.

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Oh the pricing is insane in dollars…And you have to add taxes to it!

 

[tourbillions]

Overpricing is only relative to how much you like a brand or C.D. jordans for me are overpriced. They are uncomfortable and chinese made. but i love designer sneakers and dont find them overpriced.

so i will never understand people crying over price increases. specially in luxury world.

 

[Lola701]

I absolutely agree, and I am probably guilty of feeling that way too.

At the same time, it bothers me much more that some brands feel entitled to overprice their products.

Burberry, Prada and Ferragamo are obvious examples. Maybe The Row. And in my view, also Phoebe Philo.

I have to say that for Phoebe, while it’s very expensive and maybe overpriced, I don’t mind it because it’s from the get go and she is positioning her brand from the start. It’s either a take it or leave it kind of thing.

It’s like Balmain under Decarnin. It was such a small operation at the beginning. The pricing was insane for Jeans and Tshirts and even more for those blazers and dresses. But some women and men were willing to spend those prices.

However, when the family sold it to the Qataris, the strategy changed and the pricing became more relevant to their ambitions.

Chanel is overpriced but Chanel has always been super expensive anyway. I remember it was one of the first brand to charge 900€ for a simple pair of jeans 15 years ago.

For Burberry or Ferragamo or even Margiela, it’s different because those are clearly brands that are trying to compete in a category they didn’t belong to. For Burberry and Ferragamo, it’s worse because they have expectations in terms of revenues. They are alienating their customer base without any real base to compete against the big 5.

They are lacking coherence.
Some suits believe that having an heritage brand is enough to justify some prices. Life is unfair and some people are willing to spend 8 to 10K on a Chanel bag and not even 2K on a Burberry bag.

 

[Kanzai]

Overpricing is only relative to how much you like a brand or C.D. jordans for me are overpriced. They are uncomfortable and chinese made. but i love designer sneakers and dont find them overpriced.

so i will never understand people crying over price increases. specially in luxury world.

The issue isn't about people simply complaining because the prices are too high. To assess whether something is overpriced or not, especially in the luxury sector, people compare its current price with the prices of similar products from the same brand in the past.

The most objective approach is to base the assessment on the brand's own historical facts, without comparing it to other brands, because in the luxury fashion market, using the only common denominator for all brands is just...impossible

For example, if a Mohair coat appears less appealing with sloppy craftsmanship, yet is priced twice as much as a similar coat that was more meticulously made in 2014, it suggests that the brand is inflating their product prices. Of course, prices also depend on various microeconomic, macroeconomic factors, etc...but in the luxury sector, prices are influenced by many more variables.

Personal affinity for a designer or brand is what keeps someone loyal, they're willing to pay more for lower-quality products they purchased 7-10 years ago. The customers acknowledge this rather than not...they simply don't care because they are extremely wealthy lol.

 

[StylishCynic]

Oprah seen in head to toe Phoebe Philo (Strap Jeans in chalk white, Liquid High Neck Top in stucco)


Source: Getty

 

[yslforever]

Oprah seen in head to toe Phoebe Philo (Strap Jeans in chalk white, Liquid High Neck Top in stucco)


Source: Getty

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Well, she is not doing any favour here. It's so ugly it matches her personality.

 

[TianCouture]

im sorry but $7200 for a XL canvas tote bag with a bit of leather trim tells me everything i need to know about this farce. her logo in that awful red is just vile too.

 

[philophile]

At the same time, it bothers me much more that some brands feel entitled to overprice their products.

Burberry, Prada and Ferragamo are obvious examples. Maybe The Row. And in my view, also Phoebe Philo.

I think what you are mentioning here is the key to PP's overpricing of products. The fact that there is a whole scene of Old Céline by Phoebe Philo inspired brands like The Row and then much newer ones like Khaite, Co, Fforme, and others I am forgetting, who feel entitled to overprice their products despite them not even having the prestige nor having cemented their success, is surely a factor for her to ask for these prices.

While I like some of what Khaite offers, Cate Holstein feels entitled to ask for nearly 4k for a lot of the bags in her website. Personally, I always found Khaite's pricing ridiculous, especially coming from a brand that is not exactly even comparable to Prada's history and success. Imagine PP offering bags that cost the same as the ones her copycats offers? It's not only not fair, it's absurd.

Having said that, I am not interested in buying anything from PP or what she's offering at the moment. It's not only that I find the prices unjustifiably expensive, it's that I don't find the designs interesting enough even if they were offered at a much lower price. If I buy something from a designer fashion house, it better be special and unique. Granted, the tailored basics like trousers are deliciously executed, but other than that, I find most of it forgettable.

Is PP designing for the 1%? I never really got that impression. Minimalism in the 2010s is not a movement that originated for ostentation and it certainly didn't come from the upper classes, but on the opposite: It's a reaction against consumerism and climate change. It's that kind of people who loved PP back then and still do, but with these prices it seems we all got it wrong.

 

[yslforever]

im sorry but $7200 for a XL canvas tote bag with a bit of leather trim tells me everything i need to know about this farce. her logo in that awful red is just vile too.

She needs to establish herself, or re-establish herself, before demanding those prices: of course she was influential a decade ago but it was a decade ago and she needs to put herself in the conversation before raising prices.
And yes she is targeting the 1% inside the 1%, that $7,200 bag in parchment is so fragile, a couple of wears would ruin it, it's practically disposable.

 

[Lola701]

I think she is targeting the 1% of the 1% on some products.
I find her prices in Dollars much more insane than they are in Euros. The range in Euros can speak to an average fashion/luxury customer like me.

The thing is that the average way for a luxury customer to have perceive a brand is through it accessories. The good thing I hope is that those bags will never go on sales. So she might be able to keep those prices.

Now Oprah! Once again, I’m quite surprised. I’ve seen Gaia Repossi in it but then again, she is a fashion girl.
While I don’t like the way the pieces looks on Oprah, it’s interesting to see someone turn something into « their style », much like Tilda.

There’s something quite funny about it. When I buy something from the runway/lookbook, I’m really into trying to get the same kind of fit I saw on the said lookbook or runway. So if I have to buy a size larger and then get it tailored, I don’t mind it. Obviously, Oprah was going for a different vibe.