Photographers / Stylists - about rates / fees

[softgrey]

i don't do paid testing ...so i wouldn't know really...
i left my agency when i started working at a magazine...
i'm back freelancing now though...don't have an agency right now...
and i'd rather not give out personal info like that anyway...you understand...

too many freaks around...

 

[tristan]

Compared to makeup artists, don't you find stylists have an easier time freelancing?

 

[tristan]

^^^Know Thyself.

 

[stilista]

Compared to makeup artists, don't you find stylists have an easier time freelancing?

I think in general stylists have an easier time than make-up artists who seem to be ten-a-penny. Make-up artists are generally given less concern than the stylist, and I've seen some photographers treat them with real contempt.

When a photographer finds a good stylist he needs to hang on to him/her...but make-up artists are probably more disposable. (unless we're talking true make-up artists, who can do beautiful, creative looks)

I'd say in London there was at least 20-30 make-up artists for every stylist....

Oh and we also call a shoot done on spec, or for fun, or for creative purposes a "Test". It seems it's how an awful lot of independent magazines in London are filling their pages - they don't need to commisson a team, they simply rely on tests being submitted and can run 3 or 4 fashion stories for free. There's never a shortage of new photographers willing to give their shoots for no payment in order to get tearsheets, so it's a vicious cycle.

 

[softgrey]

tristan...i don't really understand what you mean...

stylists have an easier time than makeup artists freelancing?...
what other option is there for a make up artists?...it's not like magazines have them on staff...being a make up artist is basically a freelance position only....

unless you work at a make up counter in a store...but then you work in the retail beauty industry...not in fashion...and there's nothing wrong with that...but it's not the same...

i actually think it's way easier to be an editor at a magazine...than a freelance stylist...but there aren't a lot of good magazines and they only have about three fashion editors each...so it's next to impossible to get that job...plus some people just aren't cut out for the corporate structure at a mag...especially very creative people...they find it hard to conform...etc...that's the case with me...

 

[softgrey]

I've changed the topic title to more accurately reflect the content of this thread...

 

[Nueva]

I've changed the topic title to more accurately reflect the content of this thread...

then why isn't it called "trolling around with lady grey"

 

[paprika_hiccup]

paolo roversi does not have a contract with w & he does not earn $150 a day.
nueva you can say that gisele & every other model earns $150 a day from W. I am well aware that editorial pays little but gisele does not work for $150 a day.
I was not the person asking these salary questions but i'm happy to dispel the idea of roversi earning $150 a day.
same with juergen teller. he doesnt work for W on contract & he doesnt earn $150 a day. I spoke with jessica miller about her teller vegas shoot & I seriously doubt either was earning $150 a day.
the next editorial model & photographer I can speak with candidly & politely enough about this sensitive topic [its extremely impolite to talk about this at all, and also ONLY THE PHOTOGRAPHER, MODEL, THEIR AGENT & THE IRS KNOW THE REAL NUMBERS of take home pay] I will.

finally, I wish you all the best in the world of NYC fashion. I guarantee you I was working in the nyc fashion business long long before you were, and i suspect longer than softy too. hopefully that means we can still be friends.
lets be friends girls, and share our knowledge. I definitely believe Ive been in fashion longer than both of you.

I don't think you ever answered the big (though harmless) question of what position you occupy in the "nyc fashion business" that you've been working in "long long before (everyone else posting in this thread). Just curious

 

[softgrey]

To softgrey, Nueva and stilista:

i have a doubt how do u pick the clothes for your shooting..here is a small market so more or less you could know almost everything about the offer (clothes and accesories) but how is it in big cities.......they restrict you to use certain labels/designers? are u allowed yo use less known brands,etc,etc?

regards,xone

it all depends on the job or the client...being freelance i do many different types of work...i have more freedom...a lot of my work is not editorial...

the magazine editors are more restricted though...they have many guidelines to follow...which they try to ignore of course...but in the end..you have to do your job...and do what the magazine asks...

 

[Xone]

very helpful....thanks!

Sorry Xone, just saw your question...I can only answer from a personal point of view, but I've never really been restricted as to what I can use.

Some magazines I've worked for have stipulations (Prada, Gucci, Chanel type labels preferred) but I always at least try to introduce some of the younger labels as I think their readers might actually want to see something they haven't heard of before. Quite often the piece from the 'unknown' designer gets the biggest reaction on the day.

I use small British/European/US designers where possible alongside the big players as I like to give them a bit of a break. Most of the showrooms with the larger designers will house relative unknowns for a season or two and it's a good chance to see some new names without having to travel 20 miles out of town. I also try to keep on top of really new or just out of college designers as they often do good accessories or something that can 'make' a photo.

Some editors have requested I try to use clothes from the advertisers if possible, but if it doesn't fit into the story I'm not obligated to. I know other publications who have stronger guidelines though.

thanks for your answer....i´ve been never restricted ever too.....so i guess thats great on the other hand the market is small and its like u know almost every desginer,etc but what we need is bigger brands here........gucci closed, max mara dont give clothes for editorial work (!!!!!!!!) i hope it gets better....i want to work out there anyway....

 

[Xone]

thanks!

it all depends on the job or the client...being freelance i do many different types of work...i have more freedom...a lot of my work is not editorial...

the magazine editors are more restricted though...they have many guidelines to follow...which they try to ignore of course...but in the end..you have to do your job...and do what the magazine asks...

Thanks softgrey for your answer very helpful......i have the advantage that the magazine i collaborate to dont restrict me in anything so its great to have that kinda freedom of course they have parameters but they dont say a word about clothes or concepts,etc......

 

[stilista]

Xone, Do the companies you want to borrow from have press offices in another country nearby? I know I often have to ship samples in from Italy and France...

Is it possible for you to have pieces sent from LA or NY?

 

[Xone]

to tristan

You're right, Canada is only toytown, too bad our magazines have only booked Naomi Cambell, Daria Werbowy, Jessican Stam, Evangilista, and Yasmin Warsame...it's just too bad that the Macy's campaign is done here too. *sigh*

To Xone: Are those all clothes from local designers?

yes there are local designers and a couple of brands from argentina i think.....

i saw the other day a canadian magazine,cant remember the name but it was kinda cool.....

TO ALL: PLS FORGET ALL THE NUMBERS AND RATES STUFF..THEME CLOSED,OTHERWISE YOU KNOW WHO WILL KEEP WITH THE ANNOYING POSTS

 

[Xone]

clothes.......

Xone, Do the companies you want to borrow from have press offices in another country nearby? I know I often have to ship samples in from Italy and France...

Is it possible for you to have pieces sent from LA or NY?

let me see if i understand you......i would love to borrow clothes from outside.....how can i do that? how pays the ship and everything......it will be interesting for me to get different types of clothes........

any ideas how to make it happen?????'thanks!

regards

 

[softgrey]

the magazine should pay...they should give you their international fedex number and you should use that...

if they don't have the budget...then i think it's too expensive to do on your own...

 

[Xone]

cool!

the magazine should pay...they should give you their international fedex number and you should use that...

if they don't have the budget...then i think it's too expensive to do on your own...

ok thanks 4 that......i will ask them, never happened before so i will do it......do u know which are more accesible labels?????

to softgrey,stilista,nueva and tristan:btw i have a shooting in the afternoon.....we need sunlight and sunset

 

[stilista]

Xone, you will need to contact their head office and speak to their press officer. They will pay for shipping to you, but you have to send it back at your own expense. In my case the magazines usually offer their Fedex account number or I invoice them for the shipping total on top of my fee...

Even if it is for editorial, not every designer will be happy to loan clothes. You may need to send a couple of copies to their press dept. and see if they "approve", so if you've never contacted them before, start early to ensure you have enough time get what you need on time for the shoot.

 

[Xone]

thanks!

Xone, you will need to contact their head office and speak to their press officer. They will pay for shipping to you, but you have to send it back at your own expense. In my case the magazines usually offer their Fedex account number or I invoice them for the shipping total on top of my fee...

Even if it is for editorial, not every designer will be happy to loan clothes. You may need to send a couple of copies to their press dept. and see if they "approve", so if you've never contacted them before, start early to ensure you have enough time get what you need on time for the shoot.

cool thanks! i will make a list of labels and also consult that on the magazine on that matter.........

 

[lady grey]

Philip-Lorca DiCorcia

http://www.artnet.com/net/Examples/SampleLotResult.aspx?artist_id=13393DEC873D994B

http://www.artnet.com/artist/5238/Philip-Lorca_DiCorcia.html

I mentioned one of the most celebrated W photo contributors- Philip-Lorca DiCorcia. He's a fine Art [gallery/museum] photographer who contributes a few photo essays to W annually. the harrison ford chelsea loft story in W springs to mind, as well as a very noir story with a french actress whose name escapes me right now, was it isabelle huppert? with a lot of nighttime [parisian?] scenes & dark interiors in 2004? someone else will remember.
anyway, you may have to cut & paste, but i wanted to show everyone some of DiCorcia's strictest fine art work here- his W work is not hugely different but usually features a model or actress. Oh, he also did that incredible Brasilian/Sao Paolo essay in W in 2004 too, remember that, all the street scenes, buildings, etc??
anyway as you see here his fine art images can sell for up to $56,000 [!!!] at auction at sotheby's & christie's- that is A LOT for a LIVING photographer.
again you may have to cut & paste but above is a sampling of his great street photography, new york, london, that sold over the last few years. anyone who has a good W library of the 3 or 4 years will have several amazing photo essays of his in there - an example of a stellar fine art photographer that W hires.

the 2nd link is even better 6 pages of images including MANY for W [its in the titles] and youll note that he shows with LARRY GAGOSIAN gallery in nyc, la & london. all of this is exceptional for a fashion photographer, and if others have other favourite photograp[hers who also show in galleries or museums, Im happy to research their work online & post fine art/gallery examples

 

[Xone]

hey is there more fashion insiders here? stylists / photographers / fashion editors,creative directors,etc...would be nice to meet and exchange ideas,show works and opinions about everything fashion-related ..........