POLL: Are you satisfied with Raf’s Dior?

[Creative]

As Fashion... in depth is a supplement to the topics offered in other forums and we can bring topics that has come up in other threads for a more in depth discussion, I bring this issue to light again to discuss and analyze if we think Raf is a good fit for Dior or not; if he should stay or go; if we think he will leave soon or not...

The question is oversimplified but I’m very curious to see how people are positioned on this topic.

In case you are not satisfied with his version of Dior, who would be your choice? I personally think Olivier would be nice for the house. I can’t really think of anyone else.

I personally would love to know how his rtw is doing. How it’s selling. But it’s nearly impossible to know. I’ve read that Dior’s total income has grown, but we never get the numbers of the rtw line. And I know the success of rest of the products is very tied to the success of the rtw line, but it’s a matter I’m very interested in.

 

[gossiping]

can "on the fence" be an option?

his first rtw collection was one of my favourite dior collections of all time, and then he followed with some other great ones, until the last 2,3,4 which have been dreadful (apart from today's couture )

 

[Pradable]

At first I hated the idea of having him behind Dior, I really liked him at Jil Sander but I haven't gotten over the idea of not having the always amazing Galliano anymore at the helm. Then came the awesome SS 2013 RTW collection with those amazing shoes and I became a watcher of his designs. His collection FW 14.15 was even better, the setting, music... He was definitely growing on me, nonetheless he hasn't been able to convince me at all with his work for HC, he has had a few mindblowing dresses but he seemed not to be consistent; many collections have already passed and there's not a substantial improvement whatsoever. I feel like he is in his comfort zone, he needs to push harder creatively speaking, to show us something different because he has already became redundant and boring.

I can't think of someone taking over Dior, but I'd love the idea of having Theyskens as CD's CD.

 

[squilliam]

I never liked Raf at Dior, ever, y time I like just a few pieces of the collection if anything at all. Dior is not modern and clinical, it's timeless and feminine. Raf puts no emotions in his designs, he just puts random elements and colors to make an outfit and it ends up a disaster. Also, the couture seems poorly made which just adds to the ugliness. Most people who wear his creations look really bad, even the models can barely pull it off. he's not a bad designer he's just not good at Dior. I would love to see theyskens(though I really want him at givenchy) or Lacroix. And this one is a bit farfetched but costume designer Colleen Atwood, she's very talented and can make lovely wearable clothes.

 

[perhydrol]

I loved his first couture and RTW collections, they were truly fresh and inspiring. At one point he had started a look and few seasons ago he started a new look, which is pretty uncomfortable to watch. I know that it's his own way of making Dior relevant and it's his evolution as a designer, but he's been failing- Dior has been really boring and uncomfortable to watch. It's not even funny. His work at Sander was modern and interesting, but he's not the best fit at Dior- maybe Dior was too desperate to wait for someone else and that's why we have Raf.

I would love to watch someone else as a designer, maybe it's time to divide RTW and couture. It would be quite revolutionary, but Dior's not brave enough to do it.

 

[anlabe32]

I am a fan actually
However, his collections usually have a few awful pieces that should never have seen the daylight.

 

[masquerade]

Overall I like it. I didn't love this season's couture, for instance, but I generally like the direction he has taken the brand and his dedication to innovation in fabrics, embellishments, and cuts.

I think people tend to romanticize a brand identity or aesthetic based on when they first got into fashion. If Galliano was doing Dior when you first started following fashion, then that is what you most strongly identify Dior with, to the point of there being an emotional connection. I have seen myself do it with Gucci. No matter what Frida ever put out, I still think of Tom Ford's Gucci. Its hard not to. Anyway, I think that attitude colors a lot of people's impression of Simons' Dior.

 

[Moofins]

I wish there was an "on the fence" option as well. It's obvious that he's had some issues reestablishing and changing the aesthetic from Galliano's Dior, but I think to say every look has been a wash would be incorrect - he's had some absolutely stellar designs. There are a lot of complete misses that should not have been produced (echoing anlabe32 here), yet overall I think he's done a lot of good to try to make the brand his own by revisiting the archives and adding his twists to it. It's hard to change a brand's identity and there are bound to be missteps, however I like a lot that is happening.

That's a lot of words to say "wellll....yes and no."

 

[Greenway]

Raf's debut couture collection and his Spring 13 couture collections are some the best I have seen from him at Dior, his first RTW collection in between this wasn't as impressive. I feel like when he took over at Dior he still had the Jil Sander mindset which resulting the pieces he created being very simplistic but were uplifted with embellishments and different fabric choices, but as hes progressed at the brand I feel as if he's trying to introduce a new side of him with weird colours and quirky patterns which doesn't match with the shapes and silhouettes of the clothes he creates. His latest collections feel extremely forced, especially his couture collections which show that Simons is out of his comfort zone with a couture aesthetic. I wish he would learn how to edit his collections however, every single show he has held has pieces which are totally unnecessary and could have been edited out to achieve a more cohesive collection.

I would love to see someone fresh at Dior but I really can't think who. Galliano was extravagant, Gaytten was extremely feminine but somewhat predictable and Simons is very modern. Some how I would love to see a combination of these three styles if that could possibly work...

 

[Creative]

I would love to watch someone else as a designer, maybe it's time to divide RTW and couture. It would be quite revolutionary, but Dior's not brave enough to do it.

It has been done in the past, maybe you already know, and it didn't really work (see Balmain/OdlR and Dufour). I think it's better for the identity of a brand to have a single point of view.

 

[Littleathquakes]

As others have mentioned, Raf's not a bad designer. He has a point of view. It just doesn't jive with what people think of when they think of Dior. And I'm not even talking about JG. I absolutely hate it when people just dismiss any criticism of Raf as if to insinuate that criticism equated to a longing for the return of JG. I think it was a bold move to start with a clean slate when Raf took over. Fashion isn't a science, there is no mathematical formula to ensure success, so it's trial and error. Raf has had numerous occasions now to bring out a collection that is truly worthy of the Dior name (and price tag) and it's not working.

 

[perhydrol]

It has been done in the past, maybe you already know, and it didn't really work (see Balmain/OdlR and Dufour). I think it's better for the identity of a brand to have a single point of view.

But this brand needs some kind of refreshing IMHO, two different points of view would be at least interesting. Raf's Dior is so tiring and boring right now so it's quite possible that Dior will be like Chanel-after-Coco-and-before-Karl in the future. And it would be worse than Dufour/OdlR thing at Balmain.

E.: Look at Vionnet, there's Chalayan designing demi-couture and it works.

 

[VersaceVixen009]

When I saw the second half(I didn't like the first half) of the SS 2015 RTW collection, I liked it (I liked the delicate embroidered floral coats) and it made me slightly start to finally accept and embrace Raf's Dior. However, once I saw the recent couture collection, that sentiment changed completely.
Like I've said before, I've gotten over Galliano being gone, and of course it makes sense that successors do something different then their predecessors. Raf goes straight into the archives trying to update them to be as modern and relevant as possible. But when he does this, he completely takes away the femininity and romanticism of Dior. The Dior woman has always be very feminine and even in the the vintage, original CD himself days era, there was a sense of emotion evoking in the clothes, it was just more transparent in Galliano's work because of the extravagance he injected into it. I agree with Squilliam, Raf's Dior woman is clinical, emotionless and somber: which is everything the traditional Dior woman is not. Couture is all about emotion, creativity running wild and not having a comfort zone, which are all three things Raf struggles with and I think thats why his couture collections especially are presented so uncomfortably. His clinical, somber woman worked at a brand like Jil Sander, but it's just not what Dior is about.

I think Olivier T would be perfect. Art, emotion and femininity is what Olivier is all about, and if the company isworried about selling, Olivier could still deliver the Dior aesthetic without selling out.

 

[Wintergreen]

Galliano made Charlize Theron and Marion Cotillard the faces of Dior, this guy did the same with Jennifer Lawrence. I think that says it all. Well that and his clothes.

 

[squilliam]

Galliano made Charlize Theron and Marion Cotillard the faces of Dior, this guy did the same with Jennifer Lawrence. I think that says it all. Well that and his clothes.

Can you elaborate? I do sense the going for a fresh younger crowd (by choosing someone who has little interest in fashion?), where as Galliano chose older established women who have a taste in fashion and has cultivated a relationship with them. All the girls are oscar winners and respectable actresses and celebrities, so they have that similarity. I wonder how Raf's relationships with Marion, Charlize, and especially jennifer are

 

[Wintergreen]

Can you elaborate? I do sense the going for a fresh younger crowd (by choosing someone who has little interest in fashion?), where as Galliano chose older established women who have a taste in fashion and has cultivated a relationship with them. All the girls are oscar winners and respectable actresses and celebrities, so they have that similarity. I wonder how Raf's relationships with Marion, Charlize, and especially jennifer are

Well I feel like the only demographic that's particularly interested in Jennifer Lawrence are male teenagers? I mean, Charlize and Marion were very good choices because they both had a lot of elegance and style-icon potential back in the day; Jennifer Lawrence's "authentic" attitude doesn't go well at all with a fashion house like Dior in my opinion, and she looks incredibly unimpressive in their ads.

 

[squilliam]

Well I feel like the only demographic that's particularly interested in Jennifer Lawrence are male teenagers? I mean, Charlize and Marion were very good choices because they both had a lot of elegance and style-icon potential back in the day; Jennifer Lawrence's "authentic" attitude doesn't go well at all with a fashion house like Dior in my opinion, and she looks incredibly unimpressive in their ads.

While I think she takes good pictures and has some modelling skills, I don't get it either. She says herself she doesn't like fashion, so why is she with a fashion house? Especially one like dior. It's a very odd choice

 

[dior_couture1245]

I wonder how Raf's relationships with Marion, Charlize, and especially jennifer are

I would guess no relationship at all. When he and Jennifer Lawrence attended the Met Gala together a could of seasons back it was so blatantly obvious that the two of them probably couldn't figure out more than two words to say to each other. Pathetic. And very uncomfortable.

You could tell Galliano really cared about his celebrity spokes-women...not just as brand ambassadors but inter-personally. He wanted them to be gorgeous. And you could tell that they loved wearing his clothes. I get the impression Raf doesn't even cares if Jennifer Lawrence exists, let alone how she feels in his clothes - which it's pretty obvious how uncomfortable she does feel in Dior.

 

[zacatecas570]

^ I've seen them and as much as I love Jennifer she doesn't even care about fashion or anything related to it. You are so right in everything you wrote. Sad but true.

 

[Antoine de T]

Raf Simons making Dior is like an hybridation between two antonymous beasts, and, to my opinion, this peculiar combination showed staggering results...