Printwork Criticisms: Defining What Is Boring

[tigerrouge]

Longer replies are only an improvement when people have something to say.

If we had to wade through lengthy posts from people elaborating on subjects they knew little about, on the basis of them 'taking the time' to 'express more thoughts'... we might soon become nostalgic for the days of "boring!"

A longer reply is not guaranteed to contain greater informational value. More 'thoughts' does not mean more 'sense'.

 

[MulletProof]

I don't think a long reply is the opposite of 'boring', actually. There are many one, two-word comments that make a lot of sense and there are essays that cause someone to fall asleep halfway through, my issue is probably more on some combination of powerposting and the clear fact that some people are not interested in even finish watching or understanding what they're posting about before they're pressing submit with a negative comment that adds nothing to a place that's not a blog, that's actually a discussion board.

 

[tigerrouge]

Than again, should those people somehow realise that they seem 'stupid' or 'lazy' by someone else's standards, and therefore have the self-awareness to either (a) shut up or (b) work harder at pleasing other people?

Unless you're going to impose certain standards, it's natural that some people aren't going to play the game that others want to see. They might have other ideas about what their purpose is, and what they're here to do. Are they wrong in thinking that way, just because it doesn't match what someone else wants from the site?

 

[MulletProof]

I don't really oppose lazy commentary for my own visual pleasure, and neither do I think they should modify their posting style in order to comply with some stranger's standards, being vocally lazy or too lazy to be vocal doesn't really make much of a difference and I think some of us wish there was more awareness of that.. the older threads (excuse me for bringing them again) prove that you don't have to write 'long posts' in order to generate a discussion, just.. care, really, not just post because there's some random section about designers in this 'model forum' that you might want to drop by and throw something vague at.. something that can't even be classified as an idea because it derived out of a fraction of the actual presentation. I'm not sure they're 'wrong or right' in behaving that way, but when you're in a discussion board and are uninterested to discuss, when you don't want to hear anything about fashion but keep coming to a place that was created for all things fashion, perhaps you ARE in the wrong place.

 

[tigerrouge]

I think the contrast with 'older threads' is an important one to make. The study of social behaviour in internet situations isn't a greatly established discipline, but I would imagine that certain notable things happen when - for example - you increase the 'population' of a forum. Or when the average age changes.

 

[MulletProof]

Membership growth perhaps but that only calls for more order, age or ESLers not really (the average age of active posters isn't much different than that in 2004).. the notable things actually happened when, like I mentioned in the last page, the 'average' interests changed and those coming here were not necessarily interested in fashion, which obviously started a type of trend on the way designers' work is viewed.

 

[iluvjeisa]

^I think we tend to censor ourselves less in the forums now. Perhaps I'm looking too much at myself, but I feel that my own contributions in the mag and ad forums have become lazier...I am rather thinking that it becomes a trend in a forum - at first there was a general trend that you wouldn't post unless you had something interesting to say, and then, collectively, that barrier is brought down, to the detriment of the subforum.

Hopefully, we can begin to adjust that by setting good examples and removing lengthier discussions with a focus that strays too far from fashion/photography/art.

 

[AgrenateD]

Longer replies are only an improvement when people have something to say.

If we had to wade through lengthy posts from people elaborating on subjects they knew little about, on the basis of them 'taking the time' to 'express more thoughts'... we might soon become nostalgic for the days of "boring!"

A longer reply is not guaranteed to contain greater informational value. More 'thoughts' does not mean more 'sense'.

but then aren't posts that elucidate what the member truly thinks regarding the aforementioned work considerably better than posts containing the same "boring" rant over and over? it can still be counted as valuable contribution as compared to powerposts that do nothing but bog threads down.

as for members elaborating on subjects they 'know little' about, i think we are well over the phase where fashion only catered to the bourgeois. fashion itself has already achieved a new order wherein people who are working for it as well as people who are barely involved are granted the same level of spectatorship, and the same power to discuss and share their thoughts over it, all evident from the runways during Fashion Week to the progressive involvement of fashion bloggers in major publications, to various brands seeking alternative models for their products. it may not bode well for everyone especially those who are used to treating fashion in a cavalier manner, but it widens appreciation for this artform, which is again the whole point of fashion websites, blogs and forums like these which would long have shut down over lack of material to discuss if so otherwise.

knowledge and awareness for fashion can solely be passed on by continuous discussion of thoughts and opinions which i doubt will happen if we are to be content with seeing and using the same mindless adjective over and over. if we are to educate ourselves and others here in this forum then clearly sitting back and yielding to terse opinions will get us nowhere.

 

[sublibrarian]

There is also the case of members who think that the only idea that is interesting is the weirdest. That in order for an opinion to be valid, it has to fall far away from the territory of simplicity. They tend to overthink every word. Its like they go through the board with a thesaurus as sidekick.

Sometimes I am even scared of posting my opinion on something because I feel that being verbal about your feelings in here is a quest similar to climbing the Everest. I just wish some people wouldnt take themselves so seriously. And yes, it seems to me that the position of judging other members based on their opinions is even more conceited. Like you are setting the ever raising bar of acceptable discussion single handedly.

Sometimes a spread is just boring. Sometimes a certain collection is simply a yawnfest, and that is the only thing that really comes to mind after (yes) carefully seeing every single piece.

 

[runner]

I'm wondering, though, if these short comments are a sign of anything else than incompetence/laziness. If you go into a long description of why you don't like something, I am sure a lot of people would interpret that as even more rude...even more full of yourself. Personally, however, I like to hear people's honest opinions as long as they say enough as to convey what they mean (so, not just "boring").

Basically, I don't understand what stating an opinion has to do with being master of the universe...? Is there something rude about having an opinion?

I'm consistently referring to that only one word post.
again, this is a public forum for discussion where your post as well as the work in question is part of the content.
I'd like to think our posts are equally important, as I said. stating proper ( for a discussion board ) opinions cannot be rude. I didn't know I have to mention this obvious thing, but there must be opinions.
I believe a sharp stern glance at things would be appreciated by the designers etc and us. I think we don't have to be afraid of finding their faults and pointing them out. and it doesn't always have to be affectionate. as long as it comes from a possibility that it leads to any improvement.
but I cannot think some cases of just exhibiting "boring/yawn" come from any desire for development. if they are not conscious of the creators nor others on board, I cannot call that just lazy.
if they behave as if they care about nobody, it's a bit too one-way, hence a master of the universe.
but if it's offensive to you, I apologize.

 

[softgrey]

i don't seem to be as bothered by this as some of you are...
but, then again...
i post less and less...
mostly because it is harder and harder to have a decent discussion...
discussions happen when someone expresses an opinion and another person responds...
there has to be interaction...

my problem with these one word posts is that they are not interactive...
it is just like spitting (as runner says) or dropping a water bomb and running (very junior high)...
and it IS just plain lazy...
if you don't have the time to write a thoughtful response...
then maybe it's not really valid to respond at all...
that's how i feel anyway...

...

just to add---
i do go out of my way to try to give karma to those posts wherein people have spent some time and expressed an interesting point or point of view that contributes to the discussion or inspires some new ones...
i guess that i think that i cannot do anything about the 'empty' posts...
so i just ignore them completely and do my best to encourage the thoughtful ones..


***while i agree that some people may not really understand or be able to intelligently express why they don't like something...
it's really not useful or interesting to know if they like something or not --- unless you know WHY...
it is the WHY that prompts thoughtful discourse on almost any topic...
otherwise it's NOT a discussion...it's just a personal statement...
and i feel like people can use their own blog for that...
THIS PLACE IS FOR DISCUSSING FASHION with others who share that interest...


so- ultimately...
i agree with runner...
these types of posts are far more boring than anything else on the forums...

 

[gius]

same here, i also try to post less because i get the sense no one will respond anyway. but it's interesting finding this new forum here, fashion in depth maybe it will help

btw i think it also has to do with whoever gets 'in' to the forum.. the filtering system. but i realize this place is owned now, maybe they have a quota. hm.

 

[Mchunu]

After considering most of the criticisms brought foward, I think it mostly boils down to the fact that most people don't want to type a well-thought out, well-considered reply without it being acknowledged; even if it is for the sake of their own understanding (most of the time I find that fully explaining why I do or do not like something helped me not only understand my preference as far as fashion or art goes, but my personal taste in general).

I don't think it's all about knowing that someone took the time to read or react to what you wrote, but also about knowing that there are people with the same intentions as you; like-minded posters who actually want to have a discussion about their opinions. Eventually, those who once made the effort will either adapt to the way things have become or stop posting.

As far as tossing "boring" around-I think its ubiquitous use is, like many others have already stated, mostly based on laziness. But I don't think that's an excuse-You don't have to reply to every thread for every campaign, magazine, photographer, model etc. Taking the time out to really reply to something that interests you shows a genuine interest, and that's the only way we can actually contribute to the industry as a community. It almost seems like it's about "wh*ring" yourself; getting more replies just increase your post count or to advertise your blog. There's way too much to take into consideration to just write something off as boring. It's inexcusable to me.

 

[tigerrouge]

Now that I've been directed over here, I'll take the moment to say that I also don't believe in the automatic removal of posts that fail to reach some arbitrary word limit, when occasionally, a short post does says it all. It is possible to use language to deliver debate without filling up six inches of space on screen for the sake of it.

To forbid the occasional shorter post seems like an exercise in counting words than an encouragement of debate, because there will be some concise posts that have the ability to spur further debate from other people, forming a vital part of the flow of conversation, that may get whisked away because they were only eleven words long, and rules are rules.

 

[loladonna]

I think the problem is only maybe 20% of TFS members are capable of crafting educated intelligent responses on the subject of fashion/art. Many of the rest are groupies here to ogle various models and designers. They can't see beyond their favorite model or designer. If anyone but their favorite model is featured on a cover or in an editorial its "boring". Every show but the one by their favorite designer is "boring" and not worth their time. I'm not sure how to remedy that problem.

 

[iluvjeisa]

I think the problem is only maybe 20% of TFS members are capable of crafting educated intelligent responses on the subject of fashion/art. Many of the rest are groupies here to ogle various models and designers. They can't see beyond their favorite model or designer. If anyone but their favorite model is featured on a cover or in an editorial its "boring". Every show but the one by their favorite designer is "boring" and not worth their time. I'm not sure how to remedy that problem.

One way would be to use the "ignore button" - there is a feature where you can put someone on ignore and not have to read what they say.

 

[tigerrouge]

If the idealised purpose of tfs is to host informed debate, but the admission policy doesn't screen for that, then moderators are fighting against the inevitable in an attempt to get people to revert to an ethos that tfs didn't insist on applying from day one.

If the principles and the practice of tfs aren't in alignment from the first step, then the reality will always diverge from the expectations.

And if it's too late to alter that process, the next best practical response is acceptance of what type of member tfs contains, and the content they're likely to produce.

We're probably already at the point where any power that tfs has is due to the sheer number of members participating on the site, rather than the wisdom anyone imparts. People aren't coming here for the poetry of someone's individual voice, they're here to assess the general reaction, or to access the scans.

Or to simply be among friends who share their interests, which is a great source of happiness to many people. That social connection. Someone can be typing short replies in the forums, but still be contributing a lot to a particular set of friendships made through the site. I think tfs works brilliantly as a social hub, bringing people together on a certain level.

 

[TianSoFine]

Wow, have you guys seen the Chanel SS11 ad campaign thread? Unbelievable. I think some people are actually doing the "this is boring" thing just for post count.

 

[Mchunu]

Hmm...I have a question for all of you: Do you ever get frustrated/annoyed when you're passionate about your response to a thread, especially when it's something you took a whilte to think about, and it goes ignored? As petty as it sounds, sometimes I know it annoys me sometimes when I type something that I really want to reach someone and directly after my post is someone saying "thanks for the scans" or blissfully ignoring a point that I brought forward. I wish someone would take the time to debate with me, which is why lately I've been directly quoting replies and asking members to further expound on their opinions but a lot of the times I still don't get replies.

Like tigerrouge said, most powerposters are here simply for access to the scans and to feel part of a community that does hold some relevance in the fashion industry. The forum is changing and growing vastly everyday, but I don't think it's an easy to cope with tFS's monopolization.

 

[iluvjeisa]

Hmm...I have a question for all of you: Do you ever get frustrated/annoyed when you're passionate about your response to a thread, especially when it's something you took a whilte to think about, and it goes ignored? As petty as it sounds, sometimes I know it annoys me sometimes when I type something that I really want to reach someone and directly after my post is someone saying "thanks for the scans" or blissfully ignoring a point that I brought forward. I wish someone would take the time to debate with me, which is why lately I've been directly quoting replies and asking members to further expound on their opinions but a lot of the times I still don't get replies.

Like tigerrouge said, most powerposters are here simply for access to the scans and to feel part of a community that does hold some relevance in the fashion industry. The forum is changing and growing vastly everyday, but I don't think it's an easy to cope with tFS's monopolization.

Yes, it's both a blessing and a curse that this type of forum structure gives the exact same significance to each post...