Racial Diversity In Modeling

[gaygaygay]

As much as this a perfectly correct post stylegurrl, I must say that I disagree on certain points made by you. You say that caucasian people who blame this on coincidence are only saying this because they know that their kind will be represented anyway. That is sheer nonsense. I am causasian and I think that it's just coincidence, but I sure as hell do not think "Whatever, white people will be all over the place anyway" I love black and Asian models just as much I love caucasian models. Even more so, Ai is in my top 5 and Oluchi is definetly in my top 10. I love to see them both and all other models that are black or Asian. To top that, Beyoncé is my favourite singer and Halle Berry is one of my fave actresses. I made a list the other day with 48 models that would make the perfect runway show to me and it included: Jaunel, Oluchi, Liya, Yasmin, Hye and Ai. Yes, it's not a staggering amount of girls compared to the other 42, but I just felt that these girls were beautifull enough to be on my list. And just fyi, Daria or Gisele were not on the list. I think I have made my point now: I don't judge on skincolour nor do I only want to see caucasian people.

Also, perhaps you haven't noticed, but the stereotype of only white people can be rich and full of status has blurred in the past few years. Think of all the hiphop-artist that are making a difference now to all those who now share how they used to live. They are the proof that things can change and aren't only for the 'white'. Not only hiphop artists, but R&B as well. Actors and actresses. Sportspeople i.e Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan. Politicians, I'm thinking of Condoleca Rice (sp?) and one that has many many followers here in Holland Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

My last point is that the brainwash thing is a oneway-statement. So Asians like white models. My caucasian brother likes black singers, that's in a way the same. Lots of Asian people may associate white brands with luxury, but isn't that what they just are? I mean Dior, Chanel, Vuitton...all 'white' and definetly luxury. So it isn't just association. And I think that the Japanese royal house is just as luxurious as the Dutch one.

Thanks for reading!

If it's perfectly correct, how on Earth can you disagree with it? <edit-rude>

 

[model_mom]

jssy, I pm'd you and tried to keep this private but if you insist on dragging this out into the open, here's my answer. I've been at tFS for awhile now and I ask you to stay on topic and to stop provoking other members. You posted an interesting question by opening this thread and then destroyed the whole meaning of it by turning it into a sick joke with your posts. Keep in mind that we do not tolerate this kind of behavior here and if you post off topic or offensive posts they will be deleted.

 

[softgrey]

look guys i need to....i just....its hard to explain...need to talk to model moom personally.............

so send her a pm...what's the drama???...
quite frankly, i think you'd be fortunate if mm ever speaks to you again after the way you've treated her...rudeness and personal attacks are not permitted here...!!!...NEVER speak to any member that way...

jssy...i cleaned up a big mess of yours already...you are not off to a good start here at tFS...i sincerely hope the quality of your posts improves immediately...this kind of behaviour is absolutely unacceptable here and will not be tolerated...

 

[martinionrox]

btw, Martinionrox, I recommend that you spend some time reading about the history of the United States before you make such statements in the future.

Wow, I was thoroughly enjoying your post until that comment. Let me assure you that I AM NOT some ignorant person that doesn't understand what people of color have gone through to get thus far. Some of my closest friends are African-American.. I realize it is still not easy for them today. I am all for rights for everyone, down to "models of color" in a fashion show. I understand the history of the United States, and all of the hardships that people of color endured. I know it wasn't fair, and they did not deserve it. What do you think I am, uneducated? I grew up in this country too. This FREE country.

I also am not stupid. I realize that at many times people of color are not given the benefit of the doubt, and are at a disadvantage even in the modeling business. It is inconceivable to me. In my opinion, models of all different ethnicities are the most beautiful with their exotic features. This is not fair, and the undesirable stereotype needs to go. I notice the negative "ghetto" comments regarding African-Americans and sometimes Hispanics. Who made is this way; who can fix it? It's undeniably there. All we can do is attempt to fix it. But I think it is unfair to make such accusations towards me.. like not studying up on my American history. Especially when I was just voicing an opinion.

All I was saying is that people jump to conclusions too easily about racism. I have had experiences in my life where my friends have been involved in situations where there were no racist problems involved whatsoever, but those were the accusations made anyway. I don't want to get into that, and I don't know if anyone can relate.

I was simply implying that I do not think Prada was sending out a racial message; maybe I'm wrong. I was thinking, as someone mentioned, that maybe they wanted their models to look similar. No one knows Prada's motives, but Prada. Heck, if Prada is racist.. you won't see me making anymore Prada purchases or showing up at their shows. I love to see racial diversity, and I agree with whomever it was that said that people of mixed races happen to be the most beautiful, unique, and exotic people out there.

I voiced my opinion, sue me. Thanks for offending me.. immensely.
No hard feelings stylegurrl.

 

[softgrey]

remember not to get personal with each other people...it's only fashion...it's not saving babies...no reason for people to get their feelings hurt over it...

and since no one listened to me or seems to have read my post...
i can tell you quite assuredly that if prada thought that more ethnic girls would sell their clothes as well...they would use them...it is not personal...it's business...prada does not make personal political statements as a company...they make dresses and they make MONEY$$$$...that is at the root of all decisions made within that company...

additionally...France has traditionally been more open-minded when it comes to models of colour and ethnic diversity...especially Yves Saint Laurent was using many models of colour decades ago..and gaultier..chanel and others... Italy has historically been slower to embrace diversity...but italy has been slower to embrace everything...computers, technology, etc...they are a bit stubborn that way...but it probably has to do with the cultural landscape...they don't have a lot of people of colour over there...

and a minority is by definition ...'A MINORITY-meaning there are fewer of them'...so the market is not as big...that is why you see brands like puff daddy's and rocawear marketing to a more diverse market...because if they only marketed their brands to a minority audience...then they would not make very much money and would be limiting themselves in terms of profits...this is a simple fact...it pure business...how to make the most profit...$$$...market to the biggest group...it's just good business...it has nothing to do with 'doing the right thing'...

it's the same with black movies...if only black people go see the movie...they won't make as much money as if only white people do...so white actors need to appeal to a white audience...but black actors do too...purely a matter of statistics...you need to capture the white audience to widen your profit margin and make a profit on the film...and so it goes...


$$$$ makes the world go around......

 

[jssy4eva]

remember not to get personal with each other people...it's only fashion...it's not saving babies...no reason for people to get their feelings hurt over it...

and since no one listened to me or seems to have read my post...
i can tell you quite assuredly that if prada thought that more ethnic girls would sell their clothes as well...they would use them...it is not personal...it's business...prada does not make personal political statements as a company...they make dresses and they make MONEY$$$$...that is at the root of all decisions made within that company...

additionally...France has traditionally been more open-minded when it comes to models of colour and ethnic diversity...especially Yves Saint Laurent was using many models of colour decades ago..and gaultier..chanel and others... Italy has historically been slower to embrace diversity...but italy has been slower to embrace everything...computers, technology, etc...they are a bit stubborn that way...but it probably has to do with the cultural landscape...they don't have a lot of people of colour over there...

and a minority is by definition ...'A MINORITY-meaning there are fewer of them'...so the market is not as big...that is why you see brands like puff daddy's and rocawear marketing to a more diverse market...because if they only marketed their brands to a minority audience...then they would not make very much money and would be limiting themselves in terms of profits...this is a simple fact...it pure business...how to make the most profit...$$$...market to the biggest group...it's just good business...it has nothing to do with 'doing the right thing'...

it's the same with black movies...if only black people go see the movie...they won't make as much money as if only white people do...so white actors need to appeal to a white audience...but black actors do too...purely a matter of statistics...you need to capture the white audience to widen your profit margin and make a profit on the film...and so it goes...


$$$$ makes the world go around......

That is a good point...but i really do think that models like liya and alek would relly add to her shows...that all

 

[Mr-Dale]

If it's perfectly correct, how on Earth can you disagree with it? <edit-rude>

Perhaps I ment correct in another way than you think I used it....perhaps I ment that it was well argumented and built and not rude...

And I agree with softie and mm...please keep this unpersonal and don't be rude....I noticed that the post i quoted was edited due to rudeness towards me and quite frankly, that's the first time anyone has acted like that to me, so let's not repeat it

 

[tortoisie]

I have -

Good on ya! I'm so jealous! what a lovely prada bag?
but well... i seriously think Prada not using black models is just coincidential too! um...

 

[SJPdeux]

Thanks Tortoise! Just my little attempt to steer the thread in a visual (and less confrontational) direction
You got any pics of your bags?

 

[Deleted member 1957]

i think what some people are trying to get across is that companies like sean john, baby phat, ecko, although headed by african-americans and obviously slanted towards an urban market, use models of all races on their runway and in their print ads (look at rocawear using karolina kurkova). prada is an international company with customers all over the world, and i think that should be reflected in their runway/marketing. certainly they have a choice, but i just cannot see NOT having a woman of color on a runway in six years a coincidence. it is definitely a choice, but by who, i don't think any of us know.

true

 

[fullfrontal]

The one thing that crosses my mind on this topic is how Prada has not used Alek or Liya in particular. Prada seems to like the "simple" looking girls (i.e Daria) in their shows and perhaps Alek is too striking for Prada, but Liya fits that mold and has been overlooked. When I started reading the thread I though surely Liya has been in a Prada show. But I guess not.

And aside from her being a woman of color, Liya has been one of the top girls in runway work and if I'm not mistaken I seems to me that Prada is keen on booking the top girls to walk in their shows. But again somehow Liya has been overlooked.

I do understand the marketing aspect but I think Liya's look is pretty versatile and I'm not sure that a customer would see her in a Prada show and be turned off because her look doesn't "speak" to them. Actually, I think we are more model conscious than most of Prada's customers.

 

[Terrima183]

As a woman of color, I personally have made it a point not to buy from designers who do not include non-white women in their shows.

Years ago, I wrote a letter to Abercrombie and Fitch asking them why all but the last 2 pgs of their catalogue were devoted to white kids basking nearly nude in various A+F articles. The b#$%%@%s offered me a place in the catalogue, as if I'd want anything to do with them! I was shocked but not totally because my return address at the time happened to be one of the top prep schools in the country.

I had made it clear that there is a black upper class that does make market impact. When I tell my friends about Prada not using black girls for six years, you better believe they're not going to buy it until they do. And even though it might be a small impact, it's an impact all the same.

Say what you will about Euro. designers' visions not including non-white models but please do not ignore people like John Galliano, Jean Paul Gaultier, Karl Lagerfeld, Pierre Cardin et al.

 

[brian]

this is the thread i was looking for!!

i posted in another prada thread that prada indeed has had a black model on their runway.... naomi campbell was at the spring 1992 show... but i don't know if that even really "counts" or not

 

[jssy4eva]

wow...this so randomly came up again......brian....can you post the pic...i know that prada has used black models...but on CNN, they said that in six years...there has not been a women of color on the runway...

 

[motaman8165]

Liya did a show not to long ago it was the one 2 seasons ago

 

[jssy4eva]

really....post a pic.....

 

[brian]

Liya did a show not to long ago it was the one 2 seasons ago

i don't remember that??

 

[jssy4eva]

i don't think that she did....the CNN piece talkin about black models not being included in shows, was about her and how even though she is a top model, she still has a lot of barriers.....i'll find a link to it

 

[jssy4eva]

Here it is

http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/02/10/breaking.barriers/

 

[motaman8165]

Tankz JSSY i was wrong