Racial Diversity In Modeling

[fashionista-ta]

being pale is not the same as being a person of color

And yet we all have 99.9% of our genes in common, we're all (as in every person on the planet alive today) descended from one African mother, and we all want pretty much the same things ...

 

[kahlilg]

^and unfortunately, proven through history, people of color haven't been treated as such. your argument really holds no water considering curvy pale women were considered as beautiful as it could get in most European countries. sure attitudes about beauty change, however women of color have never really been thought of as beautiful. and when they were, they were thought of as the exception.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^and unfortunately, proven through history, people of color haven't been treated as such. your argument really holds no water considering curvy pale women were considered as beautiful as it could get in most European countries. sure attitudes about beauty change, however women of color have never really been thought of as beautiful. and when they were, they were thought of as the exception.

Well, I'm not sure you understand what my argument is

But let me ask you this ... does it matter what people in most European countries used to think? Surely in ancient Egypt, women of color were thought beautiful ... you can't tell me Queen Nefertiti didn't know she was gorgeous. If it matters what people used to think, why not go there?

What we really need is to get our heads in the right place now, so we can have a better future ...

Anyway, point I'm trying to make is that yes, of course I realize that pigmentation makes a difference to your experience ... I myself was teased mercilessly for my skin color, and of course it's far worse to be systematically discriminated against your entire life for something so insignificant.

My point is that while we may look different, and while we may have a different experience, you and I are both descended from the exact same woman. Isn't it ironic that all the people who claim their high-falutin' "aesthetics" lead them to prefer the Aryan ideal all have the exact same African mother we do?

Society is incredibly focused on this tiny little thing, determined by a tiny tiny fraction of our genes, and we've allowed it to convince us we're different.

But we are not--we are 99.9% the same. That's a matter of scientific record.

 

[kahlilg]

My point is that while we may look different, and while we may have a different experience, you and I are both descended from the exact same woman. Isn't it ironic that all the people who claim their high-falutin' "aesthetics" lead them to prefer the Aryan ideal all have the exact same African mother we do?

yes. i see what your saying and i agree. seems we are both on the same page and i apologize for misunderstanding you.
however, you aren't the first person to bring up being pale in this thread and it concerns me because i think people genuinely believe pale=being a person of color and it doesn't. some people on this thread are making sweeping generalizations that are not only ignorant but also hurtful. it's their kind of thinking that sets america and other western civilizations back. i just ask that people actually think about the words they are typing here.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ No problem

I guess it all depends what you mean by pale. I'm Caucasian & there are very few people who are paler than I am. I've seen biracial people who were blue-eyed and blond ... I saw the most darling little kid yesterday who was fair with the kinkiest red hair you've ever seen. I told his grandmother he should model for Baby Gap. He was so full of joy you just had to smile. Whatever part of his heritage he wants to identify with is fine with me, and I hope it's fine with everyone ...

As everyone knows, we have a biracial presidential candidate. Some of the comments I've heard about him have amazed me ... but as far as I'm concerned, two races can claim this candidate as their own if they want to.

As I say, though, the only race that really matters is the human race ... and we all belong to that. Although occasionally I do meet someone who makes me wonder ...

 

[xmodel citizen]

I would hope that no one actually thinks being teased for pale skin is even remotely the same as being systematically denied basic civil rights and countless opportunities in life based on your race/ethnicity. Being called out on your pale skin is not the same as being denied service in a shop, or being turned away from a job. Being white, whether of the pale or tanned variety, comes with many privileges in society. I'm pretty ghostly and freckly myself and I've never faced any sort of discrimination.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Anyway, point I'm trying to make is that yes, of course I realize that pigmentation makes a difference to your experience ... I myself was teased mercilessly for my skin color, and of course it's far worse to be systematically discriminated against your entire life for something so insignificant.

As I said ...

Please be assured I am aware of the difference between playground torture and racism.

Of course there are light-skinned black people who get to experience both.

 

[xmodel citizen]

^ My comment wasn't directed at you, I was referring to kahlilg's comment that some people seem to believe that being pale and being a PoC are the same thing.

 

[iluvjeisa]

So, I've been in Europe for a few weeks now. I'm in Paris at the moment, and I came across the new French Vogue with Noemie Lenoir on the cover. EXCITING, RIGHT?! Actually, there are two covers. One with a white model and one with a black. Of course, Noemie was in the back of the display and I took it upon myself to rearrange the store and put her issues in front. LOL To my surprise, I made it back to my hotel room and flipped through the new vogue and couldn't find Noemie layout. I eventually found one single photo of her and couldn't find any others. Though, the white model had a 5? page layout. I thought it was some type of mistake so I flipped through it about 1o times. Noemie has one photo and she's covering her face in it!!!!! Is this some type of sick joke?

Well, the first cover of a woman of color (from 1966, with Donyale Luna) displayed her with a hand over her insanely gorgeous face. I'll be hoping it's a reference to that...though that's pretty awful in itself.

 

[iluvjeisa]

yes. i see what your saying and i agree. seems we are both on the same page and i apologize for misunderstanding you.
however, you aren't the first person to bring up being pale in this thread and it concerns me because i think people genuinely believe pale=being a person of color and it doesn't. some people on this thread are making sweeping generalizations that are not only ignorant but also hurtful. it's their kind of thinking that sets america and other western civilizations back. i just ask that people actually think about the words they are typing here.

There are places of the world where white people - especially the ones who look caricature white, ie pale people - are discriminated against. That doesn't change the American situation, though...that's what we're focusing on, I guess.

 

[xmodel citizen]

There are places of the world where white people - especially the ones who look caricature white, ie pale people - are discriminated against. That doesn't change the American situation, though...that's what we're focusing on, I guess.

Where? Not in the Western world I'm assuming. I've never heard of this in Latin America either where the richest people tend to be the whitest. I have heard though that if you travel to 3rd world countries, being white is a beacon for people looking to exploit you and take your money because they assume white person=rich person. I've also heard of people with albinism being ridiculed and shunned (especially in African cultures), but I've never really heard of widespread, systematic discrimination against white people.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Sorry I misunderstood, xmodel.

I have seen discrimination against what I called "pink people" in the corporate world here ... it was not racial discrimination (H1-Bs were favored over Americans). Obviously it wasn't widespread as it wasn't societal and the tables were turned as soon as you walked out the door ...

I will say this, illegal it may have been (well, definitely), but it certainly was educational ... I felt what it's like to be in the minority, and how laws and policies may not really help you.

Just recently I shredded the documentation I'd kept of some of the more interesting things that happened there ...

 

[Guessgirl96]

And yet we all have 99.9% of our genes in common, we're all (as in every person on the planet alive today) descended from one African mother, and we all want pretty much the same things ...

We are also 97% the same as monkeys...

But seriously who is this African woman? Do you mean the slave mothers?

 

[fashionista-ta]

GG, we don't know who she was, we just know that she existed from looking at our mitochondrial DNA. The book The Seven Daughters of Eve explains it all.

The same method was used to determine that all dogs are descended from wolves rather than wolves, jackals, etc. as some people had thought.

"Mitochondrial Eve" was not the first woman, but she is the great, great, great, great, etc. grandmother of everyone alive today.

Yes, a 3.00% difference is a lot more significant than a .01% difference

PS Forgot to mention ... for a small fee, you can send off for a kit to send in a sample of cells (from inside your cheek I think) & find out which of the seven daughters you're descended from.

 

[Guessgirl96]

I am sure I'm missing something but didn't people evolve independently in different parts of the world? They didnt come from one place and move out?

 

[xmodel citizen]

I am sure I'm missing something but didn't people evolve independently in different parts of the world? They didnt come from one place and move out?

Not really, I think pretty much all scientists are firm in their assessment that our species, Homo sapiens, originated on the continent of Africa and then migrated around the world. There's evidence of this, like fashionista-ta mentioned, in our mitochondrial DNA. Scientists also recently discovered that all native peoples in North, Central and South America share 6 female ancestors. There's more about that here.

 

[Fontenrose]

I am sure I'm missing something but didn't people evolve independently in different parts of the world?

 

[MissMagAddict]

Guessgirl96 said in her post that perhaps she was missing something...IMO she was willing to learn from the discussion. Maybe in the future you might think about adding something constructive instead of having a laugh at someone else's expense.

 

[ApertureRomance]

I am sure I'm missing something but didn't people evolve independently in different parts of the world? They didnt come from one place and move out?

evolutionary diaspora I guess !

 

[ApertureRomance]

vogue italia all black issue next month

I'm black and heres how I see it, this is fashion not politics...it is all about 'the look of the moment'. This drought of ethnic models will wear off eventually because even white people will get tired of looking at the same plane jane cookie cutter models...

not to say that a some white models aren't distinctly beautiful.

I'd hope that were true but a trend that has lasted for over 60 years is not a trend. Things need to change. And clients,agents,designers seem afraid of change. Models can speak out but nothing drastic appears to be happening apart from a gimmicky Vogue Italia which I don't think will change anything at all it just seems like an insincere move.

Jourdan Dunn is brave for speaking out at such an early stage in her career. Did Naomi speak out early at all ?