Racial Diversity In Modeling

[Yendor]

Actually, the weird thing about the casting at Chanel is that there are always some Asian women cast but never dark-skinned women. What's up with that?

 

[sethii]

There are so many Japanese at the Chanel show and isn't Japan the biggest market for Chanel?
How many African or even African American/European people are in the audiences at Chanel shows? I mean, if you did a survey of that audience how many do you think would have a complaint about the model casting?

 

[agee]

Of course it would be great to see black models represented on the Chanel runway, but Chanel does not stick out to me as lacking diversity because of its Asian casting. Although I do think that it will be neat if Karl adds a biracial butterfly to his favored models roster like he had back in the day with Brandi Quinones and Kimora Lee Simmons.

I haven't studied it closely but the Armani casts seem to be pretty monochromatic.

ETA:
Also it should be noted that Jean Paul Gaultier has diverse casts for his shows and it would be great to see that acknowledged by celebrities of color on the red carpet.

 

[BerlinRocks]

since some of you think that because they spend $ on certain brand, and think they should be represented in certain campains or catwalks ....
what about arabs ?
i know that a lot of arab girls carry some Hermès, Chanel etc.
and a man i closely know only dress in YSL
i know that @ my friend job, there's a girl who has a different bag (from Fendi to Hermès to Chanel) every day of the year (and according to him, she has at least 20 different Birkin).
some arab countries really spend a lot of $ on Fashion ...

do we see them a lot in the cast of campains ? editorials ? catwalks ?
do we hear their voice complaining ?

* and what would really be the difference btw a white or a black model in a campain or on a catwalk ? are they different ? do they dress different ? i mean the ones i've seen around here (the ones who spend, according to some onto here - since it seems it's only what matters to be embody in a campain) have nothing different from the "white" people .... i've even seen some with a black maid and a black driver .......... so they behave like "white", dress like "white" ....

i'm sooooooooo confused about this !

blacks, asians, arabs, latinos, europeans, green people, hairy people, fat people and so on shouldn't be in campains, editorials or catwalks because they are a part of the market, but because they are representing the diversity of a global society .....

and what about the niche magazines (black, latinos, size + etc.) ?
what about the brazilian fashion week - does it really represent the diversity of this country ? i'm not sure ...

 

[agee]

ETA to my previous comment:
Tisci's Givenchy is another designer that tends to send a diverse cast of models down the catwalk.

since some of you think that because they spend $ on certain brand, and think they should be represented in certain campains or catwalks ....
what about arabs ?
i know that a lot of arab girls carry some Hermès, Chanel etc.
and a man i closely know only dress in YSL
i know that @ my friend job, there's a girl who has a different bag (from Fendi to Hermès to Chanel) every day of the year (and according to him, she has at least 20 different Birkin).
some arab countries really spend a lot of $ on Fashion ...

do we see them a lot in the cast of campains ? editorials ? catwalks ?
do we hear their voice complaining ?

* and what would really be the difference btw a white or a black model in a campain or on a catwalk ? are they different ? do they dress different ? i mean the ones i've seen around here (the ones who spend, according to some onto here - since it seems it's only what matters to be embody in a campain) have nothing different from the "white" people .... i've even seen some with a black maid and a black driver .......... so they behave like "white", dress like "white" ....

i'm sooooooooo confused about this !

blacks, asians, arabs, latinos, europeans, green people, hairy people, fat people and so on shouldn't be in campains, editorials or catwalks because they are a part of the market, but because they are representing the diversity of a global society .....

and what about the niche magazines (black, latinos, size + etc.) ?
what about the brazilian fashion week - does it really represent the diversity of this country ? i'm not sure ...

Obviously this is all a matter of opinion, but I do think that designers should try to cast models who look like the people who buy their stuff and depending where they are based out of, somewhat reflect the community in which they operate, so yeah if blacks, Asians, Latinas, Arabs and cross-dressers make up a significant portion of a design house's buyers that should be reflected on the runways, the only caveat being is that there needs to be a decent representation in the pool of models suitable and available to be cast, which may knock out models of Middle Eastern descent for cultural reasons and cross-dressers in the short-term, although as soon as they hear that there is a demand for their type, cross-dressers will be showing up in droves at the open casting calls for IMG, Women and Next. I will note that in the case of models of Arabic / Middle Eastern descent, the pool may be small but it is not non-existent and I would particularly like to see Arabic models walking for a designer like Elie Saab (not that I am saying they aren't), since my understanding is that women from that region are a significant part of his customer base.

Now I don't think that someone should be off to the side with a calculator in hand saying, "well 7.9% of your customers are X and 12.4% of your customers are Y and your model cast should match these numbers." I am trying to have a balanced view about this and that is why I commented previously about while (sadly) having a model of color doing a OG magazine cover or campaign is highly unlikely, I think that since designers have more flexibility when it comes to model casting - they have roughly 25-40 spots to fill, they should select models that are more representative of their buyers and communities.

 

[KhaoticKharma]

To have true diversity, race needs to be entirely irrelevant.

I agree, to an extent.

To achieve this would require getting to a post-racial fashion world... and to get to a post-racial fashion world, I do think it will take some force. At this point, I would be pleased to see Chanel Iman, who I find to be average looking at best, fronting a major high fashion campaign, even if it means sacrificing a white model that may have done an equal job. Why? Because if she were to land, say, Dolce and Gabbana, it would prove that a black girl can sell Dolce and Gabbana, and she can sell it just as well as any nameless, faceless blonde. It's sure to be an unpopular opinion, but honestly, yes, I do think there needs to be affirmative action in fashion in order to open the flood gates.

 

[LabelWhore4]

I've noticed that most of the most successful black models have distinct european features. I'm talking about the ones who get editorials, beauty contracts, & campaigns. Its an odd phenomenon. Maybe designers and editors think a girl like Liya Kebede would be less threatening to their customers than say, Georgie Badiel.

 

[KhaoticKharma]

^ A fashion insider (I don't remember who, I'm afraid) was once quoted as saying he was looking for black models that looked like "white girls dipped in chocolate." I thought that was awful.

 

[Fiercification]

Vogue Africa wouldn't work for several reasons. First of all Africa is a continent. There would be issues in which language to print, how to ship the issue to every single country during the same month (which in a continent like Africa wouldn't be easy). Secondly there would not be a big market for the magazine. Most of Africa is still incredibly poor and I doubt the average person would have the means to invest in a publication like this. Then there's the question of where labels like Prada, Cavalli and Louis Vuitton are sold...where could readers realistically access these clothes? I suppose they could support local designers, but that's not enough to cover a monthly issue.

 

[MulletProof]

since some of you think that because they spend $ on certain brand, and think they should be represented in certain campains or catwalks ....
what about arabs ?
i know that a lot of arab girls carry some Hermès, Chanel etc.
and a man i closely know only dress in YSL
i know that @ my friend job, there's a girl who has a different bag (from Fendi to Hermès to Chanel) every day of the year (and according to him, she has at least 20 different Birkin).
some arab countries really spend a lot of $ on Fashion ...

do we see them a lot in the cast of campains ? editorials ? catwalks ?
do we hear their voice complaining ?

blacks, asians, arabs, latinos, europeans, green people, hairy people, fat people and so on shouldn't be in campains, editorials or catwalks because they are a part of the market, but because they are representing the diversity of a global society .....

and what about the niche magazines (black, latinos, size + etc.) ?
what about the brazilian fashion week - does it really represent the diversity of this country ? i'm not sure ...

Integrating Arabs into the modeling world just seems like such a monumental task, they may invest a lot of money on design but I don't think it would be acceptable for an average or even a wealthy family to have one of their members shooting with Terry Richardson or walking in see-through Calvin Klein dresses in front of a crowd. I think the demand of luxury goods over there has more to do with their centuries-long attraction for finery and perhaps more about a statement of wealth and specifically possession-oriented rather than vanity, which doesn't mean they don't value it of course.. I don't know much about Middle Eastern culture anyway, I just think their traditions are a big barrier for the modeling industry, which is even 'too liberal' for Western standards.
In a future, if the Middle East becomes more accessible for the West, it will probably have all the chances to be some kind of new post-Communist Russia, highly profitable for agencies not just for the virgin territory appeal but also their ethnic diversity, which can be very European-friendly so to speak.. like in Northern Afghanistan for instance.

It's such a different market, in some way similar to the Latin American market, these cultures are so socially divided that their consumers seem to operate the way Europeans did back in the 50s.. targeting them through models (eds, ads, advertorials) doesn't seem to be the most effective strategy as it is in North America, Asia or Europe right now, even if they consume the same, it is often driven by tradition, they go to LV or Givenchy because that's what their grandmothers did and they ask houses to create them caftans (M. East), 'quinceañeras' dresses (L. America) for them and they do it right away even if it has nothing to do with their seasonal mood.. they spend on luxury instead of trends, sometimes both, which is probably one of the reasons why a change of model casting just to racially 'appeal' to them isn't really necessary.


Moving on from cultures and back to racial diversity in modeling, I completely differ with the idea that fashion should cast models based on what their customers look like.. races aside, keep in mind that most of the non-showbiz people that buy the most are actually quite.. unfortunate-looking!. Fashion is an industry that thrives on beauty, often unattainable beauty but not in the destructive direction it's going now.. Yves Saint Laurent played on that field successfully throughout his career, it's such a shame that what he pushed for so long has almost gone down the drain at this point, he celebrated beautiful faces regardless of their ethnicity and their customers clearly wanted to be a part of that group of beautiful, intellectual and confident women modern enough to understand the power of their gender goes beyond races and the purpose of beautiful clothes is to.. empower! and 'beautify' instead of restrict or be something you have to punish yourself for. The fact that some new designers suggest people 'will not relate' to other races is not just a ridiculous excuse, but it shows how detached their relationship from their customers is and how it's always safer to go backwards instead of having the guts to move forward and continue the few legacies of actual value left in the fashion industry.

About your last question, Berlin, the niche magazines are the only rescue a minority can find when it's been segregated for too long and when their values, traditions and lifestyles are nowhere to be reflected in the publications of the country they also live in and contribute for. It would be nice if race-focused magazines didn't have to exist but for now, until the majority makes room and allows otherwise, it just seems like a democratic tactic of letting diversity be seen and heard.

 

[KhaoticKharma]

I know the focus of this thread is diversity in fashion modeling, but is it just me or is every other aspect of the fashion industry pretty white washed as well? While there are a few black men in the fashion editorial/journalism world (Andre Leon Talley, Edward Enniful), I can't name a single black female fashion editor. Tracy Reese is the only well known black female designer, and there are very few black female socialites with fashion street cred. Why is that? Is it institutional racism (many fashion personalities are those that were afforded an economic advantage at birth so that they were able to pursue careers in an industry full of financial ups and downs), or something more deliberate and direct?

 

[Coulbourne]

It's really hard for me to see why Vogue Africa would be offensive. Who in the world thinks it's one COUNTRY? It would be obvious it would be in order to sell enough copies. But sure, Vogue Kenya or South Africa might be better, easier to accomplish, especially considering the language aspect.

Then again, if the language is not English, there would have to be a clientele who could purchase the clothes in order to motivate the language. Vogue is there to sell expensive clothes....there have to be people who are interested.

oh i could show you tons and tons of people who still speak of africa as if it is one country.

in my opinion i would find it not so much offensive but odd because, just as people have previously stated, the language issue. there are over 2,000+ languages in africa and to publish it in english wouldn't work because then i believe people would find that even more offensive seeing as how that was a language forced upon them, not really embraced.

Vogue South Africa(in Zulu) and Vogue Kenya(in Swahili) sounds like a very good place to start.

 

[TREVOFASHIONISTO]

I still think Karl isnt being diverse just because he is featuring asians
its only because they buy so much of his clothing that it would onlyy make since to
have asian girls in it. Jourdan Dunn and Liya Kebede were also in his shows but that was F/W 2009 and then Jourdan did the resort show as well...

I think the male modeling industry is more open to diversity because I dont think they are as hard on male models about color...you can look at a man regardless of his skin color and see that he is quite attractive or sellable but there are so many restrictions in female modeling which is quite a head scratcher

I dont understand though why Dsquared2 did that whole hip-hop theme show and then didnt even shoot a real campaign but had black models and now black models are nowhere to be seen in their Menswear shows.

 

[AstroTalker]

]I've noticed that most of the most successful black models have distinct european features.[/B] I'm talking about the ones who get editorials, beauty contracts, & campaigns. Its an odd phenomenon. Maybe designers and editors think a girl like Liya Kebede would be less threatening to their customers than say, Georgie Badiel.

This is definitely true. When you really examine them, women like Liya Kebede, Naomi Campbell, Tyra Banks, Joan Smalls, all have fairly caucasian features. (Fairly light skin, unbroad noses, non Afro-textured hair, etc.) It's pretty sad when you think about how some of the most successful Black models, (and forgive me if this sounds weird), are not 'as black as they seem'.

I think it's great that girls like Ajak&Ataui Deng, Georgie Baddiel, Aminata Niaria, Nana Keita heart, Flaviana Matata, and Shena Moulton are really starting to break through.

And of course the goddess Alek Wek. :crush:

 

[Decalion]

I'm not sure what you're describing qualifies as "caucasian features". There are a very wide range of physical appearances on the African continent, and I don't think Alek Wek's facial structure (as opposed to her hair) is much (if at all) more representative of Africa than Liya Kebede's. In fact, my mother - who is Rwandan - recently complained about Alek Wek and another black model as not being particularly beautiful, compared to whatever local beauties with the requisite height/body she recalled from her youth, while we were watching a show on FTV.

I think the model scouting outside of Brazil and most of Europe is simply atrocious. It's incomprehensible that I can't think of a single female arab or Persian model working today (maybe they exist, but they're not very successful) and yet know of a dozen or so Lithuanians offhand (I love Edita, by the way!). And when Alek Wek is supposed to be a top African model, when she isn't even the best-looking person in her immediate family, something's awry.

 

[LabelWhore4]

^You are missing the point. Yes, there are many different features black people can have. But there seems to be a certain set of features that falls in line with the white standard of beauty and models with them tend to get better opportunities.

p.s. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree with your feelings about Alek Wek.

 

[Decalion]

^You are missing the point. Yes, there are many different features black people can have. But there seems to be a certain set of features that falls in line with the white standard of beauty and models with them tend to get better opportunities.

Which is true, but different from alleging that they have Caucasian features (which always seems to imply either some admixture of European/non-African blood or anomalous genetics).

p.s. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree with your feelings about Alek Wek.

Your prerogative, but I stand firm!

 

[JCFS]

I honestly dont remember the last time I've seen an asian model on the cover of any major issue of vogue aside from vogue china....I mean vogue Japan had Tao on the cover but that was the first in how long? and VP had Du Juan on the cover and that was how long ago? I would really like to see an Asian model get a solo cover of VI, VP or any major "western" magazine fo that matter.

 

[crow_watcher]

^Yeah, unfortunately don't hold your breath in waiting for that day to come.

I purchased this month's September issue of Vogue (US ed.) because of my long time crush on Halle, and she is a good actress, IMO. Anyway, I was so saddened over the fact how much that magazine has basically made women of color such a rarity. If anyone seen how thick this month's issue is, you would think a better count of women of color would exist. And the advertisers in that mag are the worst -- maybe one of two women of color? Guess I was hoping for too much since they put Halle on the cover.

 

[LabelWhore4]

US Vogue actually seems to be the most racially diverse of all the international editions. They at least try to feature not only black models, but also asians. Vogue Paris and Nippon are easily the worst when it comes to diversity.